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04-11-2021, 10:38 PM | #1 |
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Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
I think I read someplace that a Model A was able to do 60 MPG in stock form when new. I was wondering just how fast have you been able to get your stock Model A. If you have an overdrive please let me know the percentage overdrive your using.
I have been sorting out my 29 Phaeton and I now can say she is in good mechanical shape so I decided to test my max speed. Using a GPS Speedometer I was able to get her up to 57 MPH. This is without an overdrive and the car felt good. Before anyone points out this is bad for the engine please note this was a test and I held 57 for no more than a minute on a back country road. I have a Mitchell 26% overdrive on order so that would put me around 71.8 MPH floored. I would never go that fast but I would like to drive 55/60 when needed without blowing up my engine. My test confirmed that my Model A is stable at that speed and could do 55mph all day long with an overdrive. Thanks for the comments. Ron Last edited by Model A Ron; 04-11-2021 at 11:51 PM. |
04-11-2021, 11:58 PM | #2 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Henry said they would all go 65 mph and if everything is in perfect shape and spark advanced they generally will but not for hours on end.
With your 26% Mitchell 2000 rpm is just about 60 mph so at 55 mph in OD you could drive all day long. Richard Anaheim CA |
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04-12-2021, 12:22 AM | #3 | |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
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Ron |
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04-12-2021, 01:04 AM | #4 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Just adding overdrive will not necessarily get you where you want to be. Your top speed and cruising speed will be limited by your engine torque. If you want to go 55-60 all day, you will need to increase the compression of your engine. The increase in compression will pretty directly increase you torque output. I have run a Snyder's 6:1 and switched to a Lion III head but I am chasing 60-65 mph cruising. You would probably be happy with 5.0 to 5.5:1 compression. The engine will wake up a little but it will not cause long term issues.
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04-12-2021, 01:41 AM | #5 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
I have a Mitchell 26% overdrive on order so that would put me around 71.8 MPH floored. I would never go that fast but I would like to drive 55/60 when needed without blowing up my engine. My test confirmed that my Model A is stable at that speed and could do 55mph all day long with an overdrive.
Thanks for the comments. Ron[/QUOTE] Just hope you are able to pull it up in a hurry if necessary at those speeds.
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04-12-2021, 01:44 AM | #6 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
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04-12-2021, 05:28 AM | #7 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Perhaps you should think about your brakes and steering at 65 mph let alone the kids on bikes and animals in the road. I like 35-40 and enjoying the scenery, waves and smiles from other folks on the road.
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04-12-2021, 05:57 AM | #8 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
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04-12-2021, 06:18 AM | #9 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Mine will do 65, but it is not a pleasant experience. I've only done it once. I felt like I wasn't fully in control, like pushing a racecar to the edge of the envelope. I wouldn't do it again.
I will occasionally hit 50, but only for short spurts. I seem to have a sweet spot at about 47 where she just settles in and feels just right. Ken
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04-12-2021, 06:18 AM | #10 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
I agree totally with Springerpete: Think about a panic stop at that sort of speed.
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04-12-2021, 06:33 AM | #11 | |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
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It’s not how fast you can go, it’s being safe getting there. Enjoy. |
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04-12-2021, 07:25 AM | #12 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
I have a modified car, the engine develops about double the power of stock, mitchell OD, modern radial tires on 16" wheels,f100 steering box, woven shoes, cast iron drums, Teds. friction shocks all four corners, removed 3 leaves from rear spring...
Driving a model a over 65 mph is uncomfortable, regardless of how tight everything is. Wide foot print modern radials on 16" wheels allow the car to handle ride and stop better. With the improved mechanical system and tires I use stopping the car is a matter of pedal pressure, no skidding on panic stops. Cant imagine running stock 21" wheels and bias ply tires north of 45 mph.. you will find yourself in trouble in traffic. The removed leaves and friction shocks compensate for a 31" rear wheel diameter, the combination softens the ride and can be adjusted for the feel, suspension condition and response is important for high speed driving as well. The easiest thing to do is bolt on engine power, properly restoring and tuning the chassis is the important part. |
04-12-2021, 07:50 AM | #13 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
I have owned my Model A Coupe for a little over 2 years now and have learned quickly that going speeds excess of 50 mph (with fenders) on a windy day can cause a little turbulance. I definatley have both hands on the wheel.
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04-12-2021, 07:53 AM | #14 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Yes, you would benefit greatly by adding a 6.1 to just an overdrive. Hills become much easier to navigate.
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04-12-2021, 08:36 AM | #15 | |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Quote:
My Brakes are in very good shape so that's not a concern. If they were bad I would not even be driving the car until fixed. Ron |
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04-12-2021, 08:54 AM | #16 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
https://purperformance.com/p-29669-rpm-calculator.html
65mph = 2663rpm Max rpm? ford stop testing at 2800. |
04-12-2021, 09:38 AM | #17 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
In the 60's I drove a stock 1930 coupe and had it up to 65 mph for about half an hour. Usual cruising speed was 55. The rear end was 3.74:1 and it had the stock 19 inch tires.
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04-12-2021, 10:49 AM | #18 | ||
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
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Quote:
I guess I am not following your logic on this. I don't drive my modern cars at 65 mph speeds in neighborhoods where kids are on bikes, -or animals in the road. I drive 60 mph when I have the proper conditions like divided highways or Interstates where kids and their pets are not allowed -and where I can see for a distance. And FWIW, I promise that if I am traveling at 60 mph alongside a loaded semi-truck, I can panic stop my Model-A faster than what the semi driver can stop his rig. Come on guys, just because not all restored Model-As can do this does not mean every Model-A should be placed into a 40 mph category! . . |
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04-12-2021, 11:04 AM | #19 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
When I setup my Model "B" engine for touring, it must be able to make my Model "A" go 70 mph initially, but I do not drive at this speed. 70 mph is a road test target to assure that my Model "B" engine is doing everything is should be. As for the Model "A" engine, 65 mph is my target test speed. Typically, my highway cruising speed is 50 - 55 mph. On country roads, I generally cruise at 45 - 50 mph.
If the brakes in your Model "A" cannot lockup all 4 wheels and skid straight, you should not be driving it on public roads.
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04-12-2021, 11:15 AM | #20 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
I have a 1930 Town Sedan, with the 5.5 head and Mitchell 26% OD. My steering is quite tight, with no play, I have good stock brakes and tires. I have done several tours on our freeways, and find a very comfortable cruising speed for both the car and myself to be 55-60 mph. I’ve done 65 briefly, but feel that is pushing it. I stay in the right lane and don’t follow anyone closely, and my A tracks very nicely....but good steering is a must. We also have local hiways that I will also go 55-60 on quite comfortably. With the Mitchell I also agree with adding a high compression head.....mine will pull the OD up modest hills.
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04-12-2021, 11:21 AM | #21 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
I used to drive my stock late '31 Roadster at 65 on open highways. It actually ran really smooth at that speed but 55 was optimal for it.
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04-12-2021, 11:27 AM | #22 | |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Quote:
When you lock up your wheels you lose braking power, especially with the small tire footprint of the stock size tires.
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04-12-2021, 12:11 PM | #23 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
I think they are referring to the fact their brakes work well enough they can do that. Model A brakes that are not in great condition or adjusted properly work so poorly they cannot lock up the tires, even in a panic stop.
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04-12-2021, 12:37 PM | #24 | |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Quote:
I hit 57 and my 29 Phaeton felt very much in control. At no point did I feel unsafe so I am going to do a re-test as my spark advance was in the half way down position. Ron |
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04-12-2021, 12:50 PM | #25 | |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
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For me, having enough clamping force of the brake shoes to the drums to completely stop all 4 wheels where they can no longer spin generally means you have more than enough braking ability to depress the brake pedal using less pressure to ensure a safe stop. From my vantage point, just because I can 'lock up the wheels' does not mean I do. I just want to know I have more braking ability than what I will need. |
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04-12-2021, 01:02 PM | #26 | |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
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04-12-2021, 02:08 PM | #27 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
For those of you that are skeptical of what speed a stock Model A will do or has done in the past. Read the attached article about the Phoenix Flyer from the March/April 1965 issue of the MARC News. This record run was apparently made in 1932 when most if not all of the route was unpaved.
NOTE: This is just one of the many interesting stories that can be found on the MARC News first twelve years 1953 - 1965 CD. If interested see my ad on the Swap Meet page. How fast the Model A will go is really not important, but how well it will stop is most important. I stay away from the Interstate Highways and typically run 55-60 wherever possible. Last edited by frank55a; 04-12-2021 at 02:46 PM. |
04-12-2021, 03:30 PM | #28 |
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04-12-2021, 03:46 PM | #29 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
To each his own but the Model A was engineered to do more than 35 40mph. If you think your car is not safe over that speed fix it......I just did and it was worth seeing her come alive.
If you like driving 35 to 40 enjoy your car but still fix it regardless in the name of safety. If its not safe over 40 its not safe under 40 as well. Ron Last edited by Model A Ron; 04-12-2021 at 03:54 PM. |
04-12-2021, 04:01 PM | #30 | |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Quote:
driving 40 to 45 MPH on country roads but can go faster if need be, and I do agree with you concerning the safety at 40 MPH or slower. |
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04-12-2021, 04:24 PM | #31 | |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
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04-12-2021, 04:50 PM | #32 | |
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04-12-2021, 05:25 PM | #33 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
A couple of years ago on an open road no traffic I had my 31 pick-up at 60 MPH for
about 3 miles timed by a modern car. It was scary and all over the road. I will never try it again. |
04-12-2021, 05:31 PM | #34 | |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
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If it's scary at 60, there are underlying issues that made it feel that way. |
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04-12-2021, 05:35 PM | #35 |
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04-12-2021, 05:38 PM | #36 | |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Quote:
I know the feeling as my car was scary with anything over 40. Check your frontend and replace any worn out parts including the draglink inserts and tie rod inserts and kingpins. Hopefully the balls are good but if not replace them as well. More than likely the steering box needs a rebuild if you have excessive play in the wheel. The 2 tooth box in your 31 will have 1 inch or less play in the steering wheel if rebuilt right. Also do not forget to do an alinement and set your car to 1/16 tow in. After that you should be able to do 60 without fear. Ron Ron |
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04-12-2021, 05:52 PM | #37 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Well I just got back from doing a retest using just about full spark advance and my GPS speed went from57 to 62 mph without an overdrive. The test was done on the same country road and my 29 Phaeton held the road quite well. I am planning on installing a Mitchell overdrive soon and I can now say with confidence I will be able to hold 60 mph when needed (With the Overdrive) but I do plan on doing most of my driving at 50 and under. If your car feels unsafe like mine did please do not accept it or just live with it........Go fix your Model A and your Model A will reward you with surprising performance for a 90 plus year old car. Do it for your safety and the safety of everyone around you. I have proven to myself that a well sorted Model A is capable of safely doing 62 mph......now it's time for seatbelts
Ron Last edited by Model A Ron; 04-12-2021 at 06:00 PM. |
04-12-2021, 05:55 PM | #38 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
This is off the topic a bit. When growing up my father owned a 1937 Rolls Royce. It had mechanical brakes but had a servo clutch on the transmission. As you pushed the brake pedal the rear brakes would come on. As you pushed harder the servo clutch would engage and pull the cables for the front and rear brakes. This worked like power brakes. But, if the rear wheels started to skid, the servo force would be reduced, thereby reducing the braking effort. It was an automatic skid control. Modern cars have this but it is controlled by a computer and sensors at all four wheel.
The brakes saved by father from an accident when a school bus pulled out in front of him.
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04-12-2021, 07:43 PM | #39 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
In a way I kind of hate to say this, but I have a 28 with 30lbs flywheel, B/F head, and a B-carb. Cast iron brakes CAN lock but I still drive the car, and modern oil shocks, a new front spring, and everything gone through in suspension and steering. My car has a B/W 33% overdrive. At 55 or 60 MPH my car is cruising as if it's turning 38-40MPH, and I don't have a death grip on the wheel.
My new engine is still being broke in at the lower speeds, so hard to tell what it MIGHT do. The motor pans will be going on this weekend. An overdrive to me is not about speed, it's about saving the engine. With the overdirve on I can have conversation in my car. I need not worry about chewing the engine up either. I seem to recall a reprint of a Ford book I have that says the car was designed to do between 55MPH to 65MPH. However, we all know roads at that time would not support those speeds. My advice to everyone - trust your insticts. If you are chewing your car up, let up on it. If you are holding on with a death grip, slow down. You can tell. The car you save will be your own. |
04-12-2021, 08:43 PM | #40 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Back in high school I drove a late 31 steel top wide bed. Best it could do was 63mph down hill. That baby was screaming as I think it had a 4.11 rear end. Later on with the 29murray sedan with B, press on weights, Police head, Stromberg, light flywheel, cam, Borg warner overdrive, 16" wheels, I could drive on interstate 95 for hours at 55-65mph with no worries, brakes and steering were right. Did this year and year out on our trips to Maine. The current owner is enjoying this car in Texas. Rick.
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04-12-2021, 09:04 PM | #41 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
68 mph, in a stock 31 2-dr. Sedan. Only once. Had a good running engine.
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04-12-2021, 09:47 PM | #42 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
When people ask "What speed will it do?" I answer "I don't know, I've never tried it." That puzzles most people but it's true. I don't see the point of this thread.
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04-13-2021, 05:24 AM | #43 | |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
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04-13-2021, 08:31 AM | #44 | |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
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Its a slippery slope,ford flathead four cylinder speed |
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04-13-2021, 10:27 PM | #45 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Are you suggesting that the people on hear would not be telling the truth in regards to Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form?
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04-13-2021, 10:55 PM | #46 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
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04-13-2021, 11:57 PM | #47 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Tell me again, How big was that fish??
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04-14-2021, 09:08 AM | #48 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
On a five+ mile straight downgrade I coasted my '30 Fordor to a max speed of 72 MPH. Bricks aren't to aerodynamic!
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04-14-2021, 12:15 PM | #49 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
I was cruising and there wasn't enough traffic to regulate my speed, I got stopped by police, when asked I said I was probably going over 50 a bit--- you were going 62 in a 50 he said, next it was " watcha got under the hood "----- it's original I said, want to look--- YES, he looked, shook his head, and said just keep the speed down and walked away, I knew enough to not say it had more left, I was just cruising comfortably
A stock car , restored to original specifications and tolerances I would expect 60-70, though some of the early roadsters had different ratios and ther were story's of speeds over 70 |
04-14-2021, 10:46 PM | #50 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Ok, I guess we all do stupid. I surely did. I have a 6:1 head and everything else was stock. Wanted to see what my 1930 fordor would do with a new engine. 3.78 gearing. on a rural pavement, level for 6 miles I floored it and it peaked out at 73 mph on my gps. As soon as I hit 73, I immediately slacked off. Engine rpm was 3200 for no more than 5 seconds at this speed. I now have 16,000 miles on this engine trouble free but I would never do anything like that again. Later I installed a Michell 26% OD and at 2200 rpm I get 63 mph. On expressway I can cruse at 60-65 w/o abusing the engine but I don't. I have grown up a bit since then.
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04-15-2021, 03:40 PM | #51 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
68 MPH clocked by a modern car, white knuckling all the way, never again.
Just wanted to see what she would do. All stock, turn signals don't count...do they?
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04-15-2021, 04:39 PM | #52 |
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04-16-2021, 07:08 PM | #53 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
I've always surmised, without much evidence, that most of you guy live in rural, semi-rural, or small towns. Many member own multiple cars and need sufficient garage space.
Also many addresses state "79 Wistful Vista" or the like. In urban areas, driving a Model "A" much at all is handicapped by several factors: 1) advent of the mammoth SUV, 2) advent of the mammoth pick-up truck, 3) millennial drivers. Anyway congratulations to the members who have fine-tune their cars to original specs and can cruise faster that us 40-mph'ers. |
04-16-2021, 08:06 PM | #54 | |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Quote:
But we still have stupid millennial drivers. Just tonight I was driving on a rural country road with a speed limit of 45. I has a young girl talking on her phone riding my A$$ and I was doing 55. Guess you just cannot fix stupid. Ron Last edited by Model A Ron; 04-17-2021 at 12:14 AM. |
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04-17-2021, 12:06 PM | #55 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Hey woofa, not all of us racers lie, I sometimes admit that the only way to win is to cheat!
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04-17-2021, 04:35 PM | #56 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
My 30 cpe, stock with 60 over bore and with 3:78 rear has no problem getting to 65 mph. I drove it to Daytona in 59 and back and forth to Johnson City on regular occasions in the early 60s and would hit 65 on the straights. Of course brakes and steering are a limiter but I was much younger then. My 28 will easily get 45 and if pushed or punished 50 on a straight with stock engine and 4:11 rear. A 3:78 would be much better for it. And for naysayers, both of my T's will easily get 45 and hit 50 on a flat with a little wind help.
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04-17-2021, 06:37 PM | #57 |
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Mine is stock and I on a long trip of which I do plenty I will cruise at 55 mph for hours on end It would go faster and ocassionally on a downhill will go over 60mph . Of course as in any car you drive to the conditions. I would agree with the other posters on here who say if you car is not stable at these speeds then somethng is wrong. Having driven lots of ""restored"" Model A's I am constantly surprised by what other owners accept as normal for a Model A - Sloppy steering boxes ,worn out suspension , badly adjusted brakes and faulty wheel allignment are just attributed to this being a vintage car !
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04-18-2021, 06:00 PM | #58 |
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Join Date: May 2020
Location: Saint Clairsville, OH,
Posts: 11
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Mine currently tops out at 45 mph but working on upgrades for engine, brakes and transmission
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04-18-2021, 07:08 PM | #59 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Troutman, NC
Posts: 717
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Quote:
Ron |
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04-24-2021, 03:45 PM | #60 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,917
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Can I ask, how much does a Columbia 2-speed rear end pick up the MPH? What ratio does that give you? Do they operate like a borg-warner overdrive, with the sun gears, or something?
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04-24-2021, 04:52 PM | #61 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: on the Littlefield
Posts: 6,140
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
Not the best picture, V8 transmission ratios
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04-24-2021, 05:00 PM | #62 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,917
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
So on a Model-A with 3:78 it looks like the Columbis is a 33% overdrive....
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04-24-2021, 05:26 PM | #63 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,181
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
[QUOTE=Synchro909;2006547]When people ask "What speed will it do?" I answer "I don't know, I've never tried it." That puzzles most people but it's true. I don't see the point of this thread.[/QUOTE
First thing I thought of. John
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04-24-2021, 06:49 PM | #64 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Fort Gratiot, Michigan
Posts: 2,296
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Re: Max Speed of a Model A in Stock Form
[QUOTE=john in illinois;2010573]I say that it would be taking the fun out of the hobby for me. If I want 65 MPH I get in the Cadillac not the Model A.
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