Any recourse for this recurring scam

[dean from bozeman]

This has happened to Model A guys so I am asking about what to do on this forum.

My wife and I rent out our renovated barn for vacations and events. The scam that is being offered is the old "The check that I am sending you is for over the amount. Please cash it and send me the amount that is in excess'.

I know it is a scam. I have told this guy that we will not cash it. His options are:
1. I'll send it to the return address.
2. They can put a stop payment on the check.
3. I can destroy the check.

He keeps coming back that we can make a deal, etc.

Now I could ignore this but I really don't like scammers. It makes my blood boil. What are my options to help put this guy out of business...or at least wound his scam? The check is from the Atlanta area. Notify the Atlanta police? But what has he done wrong...overpaid?

I will report him to Homeaway since that is where the contact came from but I feel that is not enough. Do I have any recourse?

If anything maybe this post will keep one Fordbarner from getting caught in a scam like this.

[28]

The police department where I live has a small two man department for cyber crimes which this would fall under and they work with law enforcement in other states. This is something that they can run down and check on as these scams are often part of something much larger. Most PDs will not have such a department, but perhaps just check with yours or county sheriff or sending an email to the FBI to inquire what they can do. If they sent by mail, perhaps you could inquire with the local postmaster (mail fraud).

[Dick Steinkamp]

My advice is just to ignore these guys. ANY communications you have with them just encourages them to keep after you. The odds of police catching up with this guy (or any of these relatively low value scams) are slim to none. Don't waste your time, energy, (and boiled blood ) responding...ever.

You can notify Homeaway (I would), but the scammer will likely change his Homeaway log in and profile 10 minutes after he gets banned by Homeaway.

Same with phone scams. I only use a cell phone (no land line). If a call comes in from a number not in my known contacts, I don't answer it. If it is truly something that needs my attention, the caller will leave a voice mail and I can call back. Talking to phone scammers (even if only for long enough to find out it is a scam) puts you on a priority list with them.

[abachman3]

You have his check, cash it and when it comes back insufficient funds etc, now you have a case for law enforcement as it is a bad check.

[Railcarmover]

What the perpetrator is proposing is not a crime,its only when you are defrauded does a crime occur.

[Keith True]

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The check coming from Atlanta means nothing.I'm sure you've all seen ads where you get paid to address and mail advertisements and such.It was always a legitimate thing,you got a few cents each to do hundreds of them.They get a box of 500,1000,whatever number it happens to be with an address list.The people in Atlanta,or whatever city they are in does their part and mails them out.The people actually doing the mailing have no idea what they are sending out.They are performing a legit service for people that are not so legit.An FBI guy working the Nigerian 419 scam told us about a woman that had sent out thousands of these scam letters.she had also sent out hundreds of thousands of letters for Sears,LL BEAN,siding,roofing,and window people.It was just another day in the life of a disabled home worker.Where you are having interaction with him your situation sounds a little different.

[California Travieso]

Originally Posted by abachman3

You have his check, cash it and when it comes back insufficient funds etc, now you have a case for law enforcement as it is a bad check.

abachman3,

I agree completely with your advice. In fact, I would tell the guy that I will deposit it and as soon as the bank indicates that the check has cleared and the funds have been withdrawn from his account, I will send him the funds. I would add, that, there will be a significant processing fee for my trouble.

I believe attempted fraud is a crime but it's very difficult to prove so most jurisdictions don't think it's worthwhile to prosecute such a crime unless the amount is significant.

David Serrano

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by abachman3

You have his check, cash it and when it comes back insufficient funds etc, now you have a case for law enforcement as it is a bad check.

If law enforcement got involved with every check that bounced, that's all they would do. Not a crime unless the person received the goods or services and paid with a check that bounced and never made it good. Even in those cases, law enforcement would never get involved, just the courts (maybe).

In this case, the scammer will not have received the services (the barn rental) and never will. Not even the courts would get involved.


Don't overthink this. Let it go.

[WTSHNN]

Most PD's won't take a report until there is a monetary loss. Even then it'll be hard to do much of anything with it.

If you have contact info for Atlanta consider reporting to the Georgia Attorney General and see if they are interested in any of it.

-Tim

[MickeyT]

Better check with your bank. Deposit a bad check and you will probably be getting charged a returned check fee.
What I do is get their hopes up and string them along as long as I can.

[Brian SATX]

MickeyT is correct that you need to check with your bank. Most banks have a returned fee for checks that bounce, usually $35 or more. Sadly, you have little recourse except to play with the guy if you have time for that.

[Mike V. Florida]

Contact the postal inspector.


If you believe you've been victimized by a scam involving the U.S. Mail, you can get help by contacting your nearest Postal Inspection Service office in one of three ways: Call 1-877-876-2455 (press option “4” to report suspected mail fraud). Visit postalinspectors.uspis.gov to report suspected fraud online.

[al's28/33]

Dean you are the owner and can thus stipulate in your contract..... "Owner has the right to refuse business with anyone."

[Bill G]

Recourse? I think your recourse is to stay away from them and don't fall for it. There will never be an end to people trying to separate others from their money. Unfortunately!

I work at a bank. You would not believe the number of forged and bogus checks there are out there where people send a bogus check to someone hoping they fall for their schemes. And many intelligent and cautious people still wind up getting bilked by the schemers. In the end, we are our own protection.

Be cautious and be diligent.

[Oldbluoval]

Most bad check charges are when one writes bad checks on their account
Not for a dishonored deposit. At least that’s what I’ve seen and I’m a retired cpa that has seen lots of client books

[eagle]

You can make it expensive for him. Make him send you the check certified mail, then refuse it. It'll cost him a few bucks.

[Tacoma Bob]

Send the overage back to him with Monopoly money Dean.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by al's28/33

Dean you are the owner and can thus stipulate in your contract..... "Owner has the right to refuse business with anyone."

That hasn't been true since 1964.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Some invent unknowned ailments & sell their "poo-poo" flakes to cure it!!!
Bill W.

[Hicktick]

Put the check in an envelope and leave it on a bus or a park bench in the right area .
Somebody will fix it for you

[ronn]

My advice is just to ignore these guys.




absolutely. nothing more to talk about unless you have plenty of time to waste.


My time is becoming more valuable by the day.............. soon my days will run out.

[28]

Originally Posted by ronn

My advice is just to ignore these guys.




absolutely. nothing more to talk about unless you have plenty of time to waste.


My time is becoming more valuable by the day.............. soon my days will run out.

Yes, we all have the same issue. OP let us know what you decide to do.

[77Birdman]

Just confront the guy and tell him you know its a scam. Otherwise send cash and when you recieve it you will send him a receipt. Guarantee you will never hear another thing.

[Standing Elk]

I experienced something like this on a diesel engine that I had for sale on E-Bay. The guy wanted me to except a cashiers check from someone who supposedly owed him $5000. I was asking $3000 for the engine and I was suppose to agree to send him the extra $2000. I knew it was a scam so decided to have a little fun with the guy. I agreed to the deal and about a week later I received an official looking cashiers check. I took it to my bank and verified it was indeed fake. I then contacted the guy and told him that I had received his check and had cashed it. I then told him that I was going keep the engine along with all of the money. Man talk about coming unglued he went ballistic and threatened to contact the police. I sent him the phone number for our county sheriff's office and told him to ask for Dave who was the county sheriff at that time. Never heard from him again.

[160B]

Originally Posted by Standing Elk

I experienced something like this on a diesel engine that I had for sale on E-Bay. The guy wanted me to except a cashiers check from someone who supposedly owed him $5000. I was asking $3000 for the engine and I was suppose to agree to send him the extra $2000. I knew it was a scam so decided to have a little fun with the guy. I agreed to the deal and about a week later I received an official looking cashiers check. I took it to my bank and verified it was indeed fake. I then contacted the guy and told him that I had received his check and had cashed it. I then told him that I was going keep the engine along with all of the money. Man talk about coming unglued he went ballistic and threatened to contact the police. I sent him the phone number for our county sheriff's office and told him to ask for Dave who was the county sheriff at that time. Never heard from him again.

Great plan, I will keep this one in my memory bank for future use!!!

[frank55a]

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I had the same scam attempted on me a couple of times, never lost a cent or part. The first time I knew it was a scam from the start but thought I would check it out anyway. The scammer sent an official looking cashiers check from a real company, I contacted the company and was told it was no good and that someone was running a scam (they had several inquires over the previous week) they closed that account. Eventually I ended up contacting the FBI, had a good discussion with the agent. He said there was a lot of that type of scam going on, just ignore it and have no further contact with the scammer, but above all do not try to cash it. Further, I checked with my bank about personal checks and cashiers checks, was told that typically any bank will hold the check's funds for 7 to 10 working days, specifically while you may cash or deposit the check the amount is held against your account for that time and if it is bad you are responsible for the funds. This is why when selling parts to people that I have not done business with in the past I require a USPS Postal Money Order or I hold the parts for 10 days after I receive payment.

[Hoop]

Some really bad advice here ... especially from the guys who want to "play games" with the scammers.

Keep in mind that they know who YOU are, your name, your wife's name, your kids names, where you live, your phone number, email address, Facebook page, dog's name, etc., etc.

What do you know about them? Zero.

If they want to make your life miserable, they can if they choose ... and the cops will tell you that you should have simply ignored them in the first place.

Dean, stick the check up on your bulletin board as a conversation piece. Do not have ANY further communication with the scammer.

[trulyvintage]

Stop renting your barn.

Problem solved.


Jim

[Terry,OH]

Using the USPS for defrauding someone is mail fraud. I agree contact the local police Dept. I would bet they are using someone in Atlanta to forward their mail to you. Police departments are becoming much more attentive to ciber crimes.

[frank55a]

Originally Posted by Terry,OH

Using the USPS for defrauding someone is mail fraud.

Exactly!! Which is part of the reason I request USPS MOs for payment (see my comment #28) and they are about as secure as you can get.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by frank55a

Exactly!! Which is part of the reason I request USPS MOs for payment (see my comment #28) and they are about as secure as you can get.

"Money order scams are common when buying or selling online. "

https://www.thebalance.com/money-order-scams-315055



"Online fraud artists have been using counterfeit and worthless checks for years. However, in recent years, there’s been an uptick in the use of counterfeiting U.S. Postal Service money orders. The quality of what these con artists are producing is very good and ordinary consumers can easily be fooled. This scam is also prevalent on online auction sites like eBay, bulletin boards and email solicitations."

https://www.fraudguides.com/internet...-money-orders/



"A fraud scheme involving counterfeit checks and money orders is speeding across the Internet, costing financial institutions and their customers thousands of dollars."

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/r...oom/fakemo.htm

[frank55a]

Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp

"Money order scams are common when buying or selling online. "

https://www.thebalance.com/money-order-scams-315055



"Online fraud artists have been using counterfeit and worthless checks for years. However, in recent years, thereÂ’s been an uptick in the use of counterfeiting U.S. Postal Service money orders. The quality of what these con artists are producing is very good and ordinary consumers can easily be fooled. This scam is also prevalent on online auction sites like eBay, bulletin boards and email solicitations."

https://www.fraudguides.com/internet...-money-orders/



"A fraud scheme involving counterfeit checks and money orders is speeding across the Internet, costing financial institutions and their customers thousands of dollars."

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/r...oom/fakemo.htm

What you say is true for regular money orders issued by a business but NOT the USPS MOs, if you cash them at the post office.

Check the date on the link to the link above i.e., Sept 2005. The discussion with the FBI agent (#28 above) he mentioned that problem. Shortly after the discussion our post office would not cash a USPS MO without having it verified by a manager which generally took a few minutes, later they had a phone number they could call to verify the MO and in the recent couple of years they have a scanner they run it thru. If you cash a USPS MO at the post office you will know right away if it is good or not. Like almost any form of payment now days, if you take it to a bank you are taking a chance. As I stated in #28 above "typically any bank will hold the check's (cashiers checks, money orders, and etc.) funds for 7 to 10 working days, specifically while you may cash or deposit the check the amount is held against your account for that time and if it is bad you are responsible for the funds."

[Dick Steinkamp]

Good to know, Frank. Thanks.

[woofa.express]

when an Indian or African speech accent asks for Gary I say he went with his girlfriend to live in Provonce, France, or he was killed in a truck accident only last week.
I once said he is laying on the floor with blood spewing from his chest. One even asked in that case can I speak with his wife. I said she too was on the floor with blood oozing out and I couldn't stay and talk because the police will be here soon.

sometimes I lead them on and when the conversation is exhausted say I don't have internet so how can my access be cut off or I don't have a bank so can't provide details or simply put a cheque in the mail. Or from the Tax department, simply send me a bill and I'll pop a cheque in the post for you. you can irritate them just like they irritate you.
I know a bloke who says this is being recorded. He says it ends their call quickly.
enjoy the game of kidding and hindering them.

[woofa.express]

My lovely Beechcraft Bonanza.

I bought it about 1990. Fast and easy to fly, popular with those who rode in it because of its speed and large windows. Great to do a beat-up in and spectacular to watch doing so.
sorry, I have posted this in the wrong thread. It has been transferred to "tell a model a related story"

[Jw]

burn the check and DO NOT RESPOND

[dean from bozeman]

Lots of good advice here and I thank you all.

The scammers last contact said something to the effect, 'Have a good heart we can make a deal'.

During my last e-mail to the guy I simply stated, "Absolutely no deal!". There has been no communication since. I've decided to put "Void" in black marker across the check and pin it to my bulletin board.

I know that I asked for suggestions on recourse but since they have all the information on us and we have no information on them, I feel that it is best to just let the matter drop. It does make me sick that they are probably successful with some folks, particularly elderly folks, but at least our senses are on higher alert for such scams now.

Now, get them A's on the road and enjoy Spring!

Thanks,
Dean

[woofa.express]

Originally Posted by dean from bozeman

Lots of good advice here and I thank you all.

Thanks,
Dean

What I didn't admit to was -

What I didn't tell you was I have been scammed. A tractor advertised and I responded. All email. Was told brother in law was going to aged care and everything including farm to go. I was to be invoiced through ebay. Then came a bill on an ebay letter head. This included what I needed, ie an invoice and a serial number. I payed, via western union. I couldn't get the payment away fast enough. It was quickly followed by an additional demand for it was said it was sold too cheap. At that moment I knew I had been touched.
There was two tell tails. One, it was too cheap and I acted like a spoiled kid who couldn't risk being left out and two, at the price I should have travelled to inspect. As I said, it was a beautiful forged copy of an ebay invoice.
I haven't made this known before because it's difficult to admit one can be such a fool.
The picture below is the specimen that was advertised.