The GREAT Introducing Ms. American 3.14159 Caper

[JCAllison]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Great Design!

Hey Mr. K,
As mentioned previously, there have been some modifications made AFTER this JPG was taken. It turned out that the Gasoline coming out of the Tank, around the Hose bends, through the Check Valve (that is there to keep the Carter from just pumping the Gas back to where the Gas comes out of the Tank), then forward to the Stock Fuel Pump. BUT when the Hoses got warm, they would kink. and the only way to keep the 3.14 running was to turn on the Carter. Modified the setup to where the BENDS were Solid Tubing seen here:



Here is a view of Rosemary's Miscarriage installed from the OTHER end:

You have this back @ the fuel tank with gravity drop?

Yes, but it's just connected to the Tank Outlet, as you can see in the above JPGs, so I don't know about it being a Gravity Drop!

There have been some discussions here and you show the correct way to plumb it (IMO).

It's VERY direct. The Carter won't let Gas flow through it unless it is running. The Stock Fuel Pump WILL let Gas flow through, which is why the Carter can prime the 4100 without the 3.14 running. Also there is a Fuel Pressure Regulator set at 5.5 PSI that is mounted between the Stock Fuel Pump and the 4100 so that when BOTH Fuel Pumps are running, they won't overpower the Needles and Seats in the 4100. Here is a JPGs of THAT:


AND

Maybe that lady was the one that paid for your canopy ...

BINGO! That was MY suspicion too. Asked her about it, and she denied it. So either she didn't, or of course she WOULD deny it. Anyway, Ms. American and I both appreciated it, and thanked whomever did the springing for the Car Port profusely.

Anyway, it appears that your tutorial of how to put full size images in the post was succinct enough for even ME to understand. Thanks for the education. It's now onward through the fog.

JC

[JCAllison]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

A lot of those electric pumps allow fuel to pass through when they are shut down. It just depends on what design of pump is used. That set up will work very well although somewhat complex.

Hey Mr. RW,
Don't know what could be eliminated to make it simpler without it not being able to function.

On your carb set up I'll add this info but if it's working it doesn't mean you should change anything. The secondaries don't really start to draw much of any fuel until the plates are opened far enough for the venturis to start their magic. The only idle circuitry is on the primary side and it only works when the throttle plates are open enough to allow a draw due to the low pressure there. With the secondaries open, it's allowing ambient air pressure to go through there causing a lean condition.

Have to say that the condition of the Idle is VERY responsive to the FAM Screw with which the Secondaries are opened/closed. The Idle is VERY consistent.

You have some sort of balance going on there but it's not the way it was designed to work.

YES. BUT it does work.

The secondary fuel circuit is all up in the secondary feed horn area in the venturi where the idle circuit is down near the primary plates when they are in the slightly open condition. The vacuum advance just has to be relaxed in a retarded position to get a start. That's why timing is set at idle with the vacuum can disconnected & line plugged.

The 3.14 has initial timing of 12 degrees BTDC. At 80 years old, my vision isn't what it used to be. So I did some custom work on the Damper to make it easier to see. This is what was done:

AND

The left side of the Blue Mark is 16 Degrees BTDC. Was going to use that as the Primary Timing, but it made starting HOT difficult, so dialed it back TWO Color Marks to 12 Degrees BTDC, and it is good to go.

This gives you the start condition. It takes a while with throttle plates near closed to get enough low pressure draw to get the advance diaphragm completely pulled tight.

Yes.

You also need the vacuum to draw the warm air for the automatic choke stove. Your problem with the choke stove may have been due to the high performance cast iron headers if that's what you have.

Well, there is an interesting anecdote about THAT... Though I was never told about it, apparently my Mother was in a Right Front End Fender Bender at some time before Ms. American came to live with me. In working on the old Gal's Brakes, I found the Left Front, and BOTH Rear Brake Back Plates were BLACK. The Right Front Brake was MAROON. Then when working on the Heater, I found that the Pleated Rubber Connector between the Air Inlet of the Heater, and where the Air comes in wasn't right. It had had a piece of Sheet Metal made into an oval Tube, and was sealed up with DumDum. Quite BOTCHED, to say the least. Then when rebuilding the Front Suspension, found that the Right Front PI Parts were marked as C3A, instead of C4A like the Left Front Parts. Also, it is apparent that the Right front Fender has been repaired, and the Outside Headlight Bezel doesn't fit as well as the Left Front Bezel. With all that said, there is one OTHER thing to note. The PLACE in the Passenger Side Cast Iron Shorty Header where the Choke Stove should fit, has a DELETE welded into it, but the Driver's Side is OPEN! This is an indication that the Right Front Fender Bender took out the Passenger Side Cast Iron Shorty Header, and so they got replaced with a pair of Headers for a Three Two Barrel Set! And when the old Gal came to live with me, it had an ELECTRIC CHOKE CAP, and not the Hot Air Choke setup. So the Hot Air Choke setup had nothing to do with the 4100's Choke difficulties.

I'm not sure how the warm air line connects up to that set up since I have no experience with them.

I had intended to attempt to put the Hot Air Choke setup back on the 4100. Bought the Choke Stove that goes into the Exhaust Header from Greg Donahue. It was a little more than $50.00. But then I found the DELETE welded into the Passenger Side Header and that scotched the deal. Nonetheless, the Stock Choke System on the 4100 was a Rube Goldberg Device. Talk about complex. One would have had to be a magician to make it work properly. Deep sixing it was the best thing to happen to the 4100.

Manual choke is damn sure more reliable in any case so I don't see a thing wrong with that.

It was a MIRACULOUS transformation.

My avatar is a photo of my Pop at the Celone Airfield near Foggia, Italy in late 1944. He was a copilot in the crew of that plane at the time.

It appears to be a B17.

My military time was US Army helicopter engine repairman but that was a long time after that photo was taken. I have a helicopter customer up on the south end of lake Conroe so that's getting closer to your neck of the woods.

Speaking of Helicopters, my Mother's kid brother (Christian Fink), was a dive bomber pilot on the USS Enterprise during WWII, and then later was a Chopper Pilot on the Admiral Byrd Antarctic Expedition. He was the 23rd Helicopter Pilot licensed by US Navy. See Here:
https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=CJ199910...-txIN--------1

It's hotter than hades here too.

Know what you mean. But YOU guys don't have the humidity that we have here in the Sam Houston National Forest. I go through five T-Shirts a day. They just get wringing wet from sweat, and it's so humid that it doesn't evaporate. The condition is called "clammy". Uncomfortable.

Anyway, thanks for the informative response. Hope you're having a GREAT Sunday. Take care.

JC

[JCAllison]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

If the carb/engine responds to idle air mixture screw adjustments as he has it set up, he should be fine.

Hey Mr. K,
Have to say that Ms. American's 3.14 Starts and Runs the BEST now than it ever has in the 33 years that she lived with me. She had always been hard to start, and though she ran alright, she was NEVER as happy as she is now.

As for the ported vacuum signal, it may come in @ idle to some degree, and that is why they have you disconnect it and set to OEM curb idle when setting basic timing.

When the 3.14 was last timed to 12 degrees BTDC, the connection to the Vacuum Canister on the Distributor was clamped off with a pair of Hemostats. BUT... and I never have understood this, when starting the 3.14, doesn't the Centrifugal Advance Mechanism in the Distributor do something?

JC

[JCAllison]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I think the confusion at that time was their seeing those HP exhaust manifolds and immediately thinking it was a period 390/406/427HP. Those did come with ALUM INTAKES.

Hey Mr. K,
It was FE and going Broke (Gary Kitchens), and Mr. Deadhorse (remember them?) who kind of hoo-hawed Ms. American when I first posted to FordMuscle on Christmas Eve of 2007. Neither of them had ever heard of a "Four-Door Hard-Top Convertible" (that's what they were called back in the day). I remember Mr. Deadhorse saying he'd sure like to SEE one of them! You were the one who finally straightened them out of what a "Hard Top Convertible" was. BTW, had an E-Mail from Gary Kitchens last Thursday (June 6,) wishing Ms. American and me a happy 33rd Anniversary. He remembers that because that was also the day that he was in his catastrophic car crash. He seems to be doing fine.

BTW, how do you get rid of the unnecessary Thumbnails after the full size JPGs are in the post?

Anyway, am hungry. Going to have something to eat. Hope YOU are well.

JC

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by JCAllison

Hey Mr. K,

When the 3.14 was last timed to 12 degrees BTDC, the connection to the Vacuum Canister on the Distributor was clamped off with a pair of Hemostats. BUT... and I never have understood this, when starting the 3.14, doesn't the Centrifugal Advance Mechanism in the Distributor do something?

JC

Not really. Centrifugal advance (if it's working correctly and hasn't been re-curved) will be minimal @ START. That is why timing is set @ curb idle with no vacuum signal. Look in your SHOP MANUAL at SPECIFICATIONS and you should come across DIST TIMING CURVE.

[scicala]

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"The left side of the Blue Mark is 16 Degrees BTDC. Was going to use that as the Primary Timing, but it made starting HOT difficult, so dialed it back TWO Color Marks to 12 Degrees BTDC, and it is good to go."




If I'm looking at the picture of the balancer correctly, to the left of the blue mark would be ATDC and not BTDC. Assuming the engine rotation is clockwise.


Sal

[40cpe]

If the blue mark is 16 degrees, I'm deducting that each color segment is 2 degrees, so the left side (or bottom) of the first red mark is TDC. Each red mark after that is a 10 degree increase for a total of 50 degrees marked out on the balancer. Is that right Mr Allison?

[JCAllison]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Not really. Centrifugal advance (if it's working correctly and hasn't been re-curved) will be minimal @ START.

Hey Mr. K,
When the PerTronix Ignitor III was installed, NEW Centrifugal Springs were put into the Distributor. One was heavier than the other, but I don't recall what their numbers were. It was done at the mentorship of Ross over at FordMuscle. There was also some work done on the Centrifugal Weights themselves in that the Slots had worn a small bit, and that got smoothed out. Am thinking that there are JPGs of them somewhere, but will have to find them because I've slept a number of times since messing with it all, and can't remember where they are stored! I told my doctor that I can't remember things from minute to minute anymore. She ask: How long has this been going on?" I said: "How long has WHAT been going on?"

That is why timing is set @ curb idle with no vacuum signal. Look in your SHOP MANUAL at SPECIFICATIONS and you should come across DIST TIMING CURVE.

All right. Strange thing though, the 1964 Ford and Mercury Shop Manual specifies that the P-Code Engine has an Initial Timing of 5 degrees BTDC! Is THAT nutty, or WHAT? But THAT isn't the as bad as the 1967 Dodge 225 Slant Six Specification that says that the Initial Timing should be set AT TDC! No advance AT ALL!

As mentioned previously, the 3.14 is initially at 12 degrees BTDC, and Lorrie's Mighty 225 Slant Six is set at 6 degree BTDC initially. Although, I don't know what the "All In" reading on the 3.14 is presently, there WAS a time when with the 3.14 revved WAY UP, the Timing light showed that the Pointer was WAY PAST the 50 degrees BTDC mark!

BTW, this whole subject is somewhat blurred in my comprehension. Factors are numerous, and instrumentation to account for them all goes far beyond just my simple Timing Light, and Vacuum Gauge. But then again, am NOT trying to tune the 3.14 for any kind of MAXIMUM.

JC

[JCAllison]

Originally Posted by scicala

If I'm looking at the picture of the balancer correctly, to the left of the blue mark would be ATDC and not BTDC. Assuming the engine rotation is clockwise. Sal

Hey Mr. S,
No... The left side of the FIRST RED MARK on the Left is TDC. All the colors are BTDC, with the left side of the BLUE MARK being 16 degrees BTDC. And YES, looking at the Front of the 3.14, it DOES turn Clockwise.

JC

[JCAllison]

Originally Posted by 40cpe

If the blue mark is 16 degrees, I'm deducting that each color segment is 2 degrees,

Hey Mr. 40C,
BINGO!

so the left side (or bottom) of the first red mark is TDC.

YES.

Each red mark after that is a 10 degree increase for a total of 50 degrees marked out on the balancer.

YES.

Is that right Mr Allison?

Perfect score! You get an A+!

And have to say that putting those colors on the Damper (which, BTW, is the ORIGINAL Damper rebuilt by The Damper Doctor) has made timing the 3.14 easy peasy for these OLD eyes. Had, before putting the colors on the Damper, just put White Paint in the Degree Marks, but couldn't see them worth a damn.

Anyway, am hopefully going to get Lorrie Van Haul's NEW Door Handles installed this morning before it gets too hot. And if I have to get out and about, it will hopefully be in Ms. American.

Take care.

JC

[KULTULZ]

JC wrote -

All right. Strange thing though, the 1964 Ford and Mercury Shop Manual specifies that the P-Code Engine has an Initial Timing of 5 degrees BTDC!

Is THAT nutty, or WHAT? But THAT isn't the as bad as the 1967 Dodge 225 Slant Six Specification that says that the Initial Timing should be set AT TDC! No advance AT ALL!

There is advance, it is within how the centrifugal advance curve is calibrated.

Bumping the timing (twisting the DIST) increases performance and/or may damage the engine.

This should help - https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/03/timing/

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by JCAllison

Hey Mr. RW,

Had, some time ago, read where the Solid Lifter Blocks didn't have the Oil Galleries drilled like the Hydraulic Lifter Blocks had in order to supply the Hydraulic Lifters with Oil, but when the 3.14 was rebuilt, we found that it DID have the Oil Galleries supplying the Lifters Bores with Oil drilled. We concluded that THAT would be all right, and that it would lubricate the Solid Lifters in their Bores.

Some time ago, had a conversation with Greg Donahue, and he made the comment that some people LIKE the Solid Lifter setup, but some DON'T.

They are somewhat rare.

JC

Here is a forgotten factoid regarding the 61/64 390PI -

The 1961–1965 390 Police Interceptor and High-Performance blocks (C1AE-V, C2AE-BC, C2AE-BE, C2AE-BR, C2AE-BS, C3AE-KY, C3ME-B, C4AE-F, and C5AE-B) have heavier main-bearing caps and drilled oil passages for hydraulic lifters.

The trick here is: Ford never drilled the oil passages from the main galleries to the twin lifter oil galleries, which means no oil pressure to these galleries. Hydraulic lifters cannot be used in this block.

Just so you know ...

[JCAllison]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

There is advance, it is within how the centrifugal advance curve is calibrated.

Hey Mr. K,
I understand THAT, but I don't understand THAT!

Bumping the timing (twisting the DIST) increases performance and/or may damage the engine.

Alas, this is what I've been doing, but not only with a Timing Light, but with a Vacuum Gauge connected to the Intake Manifold, and an Actron Tachometer.

This should help - https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/03/timing/

Seems to me that I had seen that article before. Got to reading it again, but was distracted about half way through. Will get back to it when it's too hot&humid here to do anything else.

Anyway, you doing all right? I'm getting ready to start ordering the parts and tools to do the Lorrie Van Haul Steering Conversion. And this morning am fabricating some REALLY spiffy parts to go on Lorrie's Door Latches. Weather is quite cool here this morning. THAT won't last long, so it's best I get to cracking on the Spiffy Parts before it gets too warm to be out.

Take care.

JC

[JCAllison]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Here is a forgotten factoid regarding the 61/64 390PI - Just so you know ...

Hey Mr. K,
Interesting info.

The Solid Lifters in Ms. American are "necked down between the Ends to let the Oil flow through the Lifter Bores as it traverses the Oil Galleries.

When I went to get the NEW Lifters, when rebuilding the 3.14 in 1989. The Counter Man at the Auto Parts Store had them, but they were quite expensive.

There was an old guy behind me who overheard this, and he tapped me on the shoulder, and told me that those lifters were also used in a Nash Rambler 6-Cylinder, and were a lot less expensive.

Asked the Counter Man about THAT. He also had the Rambler Lifters.

Turned out that ONE box of Nash Rambler Lifters would contain only 12 of them. It would take TWO boxes of the Nash Rambler Lifters, because the 3.14 needed 16 Lifters. BUT... TWO boxes of Nash Rambler Lifters was half the cost of ONE box of 16 Ford Lifters! Got the TWO boxes of Rambler Lifters, for half the price, and had 8 lifters left over!

Sometimes life is STRANGE!

About the image of the 1964 Galaxie XL Four-Door Hardtop... Look at it compared to large JPG you have of Ms. American. Notice the stance. The XL sits a little UP in the FRONT, whereas Ms. American, sits a little UP in the REAR. Happen to like the bit of a RAKE that the old Gal has better than the DRAG of the XL. That RAKE was the result of having the Rear Springs "re-arched" at Heitman's in Houston.

The guy that did the re-arching was a TRUE CRAFTSMAN with a BIG SLEDGE HAMMER. Knew EXACTLY where to hit the Spring to make it conform to the Template against which he checked the Springs. Was amazing to watch him work.

Anyway, am off to fabricate some SPIFFY parts for Lorrie's Door Handles.

Hope you are well.

JC

[Nite-owl]

Hi there,

I, too, have finally made it!

Second time JC has "forced"me to move. The things one does.

Mel

[JCAllison]

Originally Posted by Nite-owl

Hi there, I, too, have finally made it!

Hey Mel,
NICE TO SEE YOU!!! Welcome to FordBarn.

Second time JC has "forced"me to move. The things one does. Mel

Know what you mean. Ms. American did the same to ME!

Hey All, This is Mel, from the Netherlands. He has a GORGEOUS 63 Galaxie named "Thirsty Lady". He, as I understand it, took it completely apart, and put it back together after cleaning and fixing EVERYTHING. Though he posts under the User Name of Nite-owl, he one time told me that he watches Ms. American and me like a HAWK!

Anyway Mel, am able to mention Lorrie Van Haul here, but don't post about her. That is done over at:

https://ramchargercentral.com/vans-caravans/

Just in case you'd like to hear the latest about Lorrie.

Anyway, glad to see you. Take care.

JC

[Coosawjack]

Hey there Mel......GLAD to see you made it over here!!

[Nite-owl]

Hi there,

Hey there Mel GLAD to see you made it over here!

It took some time to get here. Waiting and waiting for conformation. Never got it, but, allofasudden was granted entry without any notice! Have the same problem with the Dodge site. Not in yet.

Mel

[Nite-owl]

Hi there,

Though he posts under the User Name of Nite-owl, he one time told me that he watches Ms. American and me like a HAWK!

Owls are just as vigelent as Hawks are. I call myself Nite-owl because, to keep up with USA, I burn the midnight oil.

Mel

[JCAllison]

Hey All,
Saturday, June 13, 2019, Early Evening Update:

Just got in from having started Ms. American. She usually gets started every Sunday, but she hadn't been started since Sunday before last.

Opened her Hood and connected her Quick Disconnect Battery Switch.

Got in, noting that the Courtesy Lights worked, and turned on Rosemary's Miscarriage.

Counted 60 heartbeats. Gave the Accelerator four pumps, holding the last one while pulling out the Mustangs Etc. Manual Choke Knob.

Keyed the Starter, and the 3.14 came to life instantaneously. Had to hold the Accelerator till the Temperature Gauge moved up to the 100 degree mark, then slowly pushed in on the Manual Choke Knob. The 3.14 settled into a turbine smooth 650 RPM Idle.

Let it Idle till the Temperature Gauge read 160, which is the old Gal's Operating Temperature.

Watched the 3.14 run a while, checking for anything untoward. There was nothing.

Revved the 3.14 up a number of times, holding at about 3,000 RPM till the Top Radiator Hose got too hot to hold.

Got into the Driver's Seat, and revved the 3.14 three more times, and turned off the Ignition. The 3.14 just stop running. No run on. Told the old Gal that the next time we have to go out, it will be in her.

Got out, turned off the Quick Disconnect Switch. Closed the Hood, told the old Gal that I love her, and came in.

Anyway, all is well with Ms. American.

Will keep you all updated if, when, and as progress occurs. Take care everyone.

JC