The Ford Barn

Jacks 36 Find · 04-27-2023, 09:46 AM

Hello. I'm a new member with you. I just picked up a 1936 Ford barn find.
I've had two other Flat Head V8's, a 1938 and 1940 but that was back in the late 70's and early 80's. So it's nice to get back with the V8's.

I searched the FAQ but didn't find an answer to my issue.

My 36 was driven into a garage 18 years ago and never started since. There is oil in the pan a bit dirty but at the correct level. There is no evidence of water on the oil. The engine won't turn over.
I pulled the plugs and can only see the valves but there wasn't any rust showing. I can't see into the cylinders but have squirted in a bunch of Mystery Marvel oil and let it soak. I put the car in 3rd gear and tried rocking the car back and forth but so far, the engine won't break free. I've got some Kroil coming and will try that but for now I'm stuck, just like the engine.

Anyone have a suggestion? I'm trying to avoid pulling the heads for a look see at the cylinders as I fear breaking a stud(s).

Thanks in advance. Jack

alanwoodieman · 04-27-2023, 10:15 AM

50/50 mixture of acetone and automatic trans fluid and pour into spark plug hole and even down the carb. let set for week and put into high gear and rock car to try to move engine over, if it moves let it set for a day and do it again. usually that works--remember it is usually the valves that stick

rockfla · 04-27-2023, 11:24 AM

The clutch "could" be stuck as well. Make sure its in neutral and rock the car and see IF it rolls, IF not then you should see the the fan blade turn as you rock it (with the plugs out of course)
Soaking the engine is NOT a bad Idea either way BUT IF the clutch is stuck you might be worrying about the wrong thing. ALSO MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) works well as a "soaker" too!!!!

deuce lover · 04-27-2023, 11:48 AM

Welcome to FordBarn ! As rockfla said. Check the clutch first.

Vics Stuff · 04-27-2023, 12:09 PM

I am experiencing the same issue. Soaked the engine in 50/50 ATF and Acetone for a few years . Verified that the clutch is not stuck. Rocked the truck back and forth many many times and still stuck. This was a great running engine before I had parked it. As life came , it sat for over 20 years and now I can not get the engine to turn over. I have been told that if the valves are stuck , I could damage the engine by rocking back and forth. At this point I am looking at removing the heads to check the valve trane.
Vic

Zeke3 · 04-27-2023, 12:17 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Vics Stuff

At this point I am looking at removing the heads to check the valve train.

Remove the intake manifold to see whether some of the valves are stuck. I think you should be able to pry on them with a long valve fork to see if you can move any of them. Removing the intake will also give you the opportunity to see down the intake ports to see what is going on there and get oil directly on those guides. Much easier than removing the heads.

swedishsteel · 04-27-2023, 12:33 PM

Condensation over the years has rusted something(s)--rings rusted to cylinder walls, lifters rusted to guides, clutch rusted to flywheel/pressure plate, valves stuck.....or all of the above. My experience is that if it doesn't come loose with a week or so of soaking, there will enough crud in it you wouldn't want to start it if you do get it loose. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the best solution is to pull it out and clean it up. Good luck.

T Scott · 04-27-2023, 12:48 PM

I would remove the heads and intake manifold. You can then get some MMO on the lifters and valve stems. Also, there is most likely rust on the cylinder walls. Since it is abrasive, it would be best to remove this before rotating the engine.
Regarding a stuck clutch, I had this same issue recently. I jacked up both rear wheels and with the transmission in third gear and with the engine running set the throttle at about 35 MPH. Then with the clutch pedal depressed applied the brakes. The first two tries killed the engine. The third freed up the clutch with no apparent damage to the disc since it operates smoothly with no chatter.

petehoovie · 04-27-2023, 01:28 PM

Jack. Have you tried turning the engine over with the plugs out using a hand crank?

Flathead Fever · 04-27-2023, 02:07 PM

If it was a stuck clutch, you should still be able l turn it over in neutral. I have early 1920s Mack "C" cab truck that was under a dry shed. The engine was rebuilt but set for many-many-years. It's stuck solid as a rock. The cylinders have been socking in a 50/50 mix of acetone and Marvel Mystery Oil for a year. Can't crank it over with a battery and starter because it never came with them, just a hand crank. The entire electrical system is one wire to a magneto. I have a lot of car projects ahead of this one so I will let then cylinders continue to soak.

We had a 1965 Hyster forklift at the phone company that went through oil like. The supply department ran it out of oil and seized the crank bearings. The younger mechanic were ready to tear down the engine for a rebuild. We had an old-time mechanic there that said just put some oil in it and drag it around the yard in high-gear. We chained it to Marmon Herrington 4X4 F-650, in 4wd low. and after about a mile of dragging it, leaving skids marks across the yard the engine broke free. 20-years later it was still running with those seized up bearings, not even a knock out of them. Normally we did better quality work than that.

Jacks 36 Find · 04-27-2023, 02:34 PM

Unfortunately I don’t have the crank. I’m gonna try a socket and breaker bar instead.

Ggmac · 04-27-2023, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacks 36 Find

Hello. I'm a new member with you. I just picked up a 1936 Ford barn find.
I've had two other Flat Head V8's, a 1938 and 1940 but that was back in the late 70's and early 80's. So it's nice to get back with the V8's.

I searched the FAQ but didn't find an answer to my issue.

My 36 was driven into a garage 18 years ago and never started since. There is oil in the pan a bit dirty but at the correct level. There is no evidence of water on the oil. The engine won't turn over.
I pulled the plugs and can only see the valves but there wasn't any rust showing. I can't see into the cylinders but have squirted in a bunch of Mystery Marvel oil and let it soak. I put the car in 3rd gear and tried rocking the car back and forth but so far, the engine won't break free. I've got some Kroil coming and will try that but for now I'm stuck, just like the engine.

Anyone have a suggestion? I'm trying to avoid pulling the heads for a look see at the cylinders as I fear breaking a stud(s).

Thanks in advance. Jack

Jack , where do you live and where did the 36 come from ? Freezing temp area ?

kurt v · 04-27-2023, 02:54 PM

I think you will be better off rocking the car in gear than using the breaker bar on the crank, it will come loose just takes time.

rjlester · 04-27-2023, 03:26 PM

My 54 Meteor was stuck but a "ran when parked" in 1966. I could not turn it over with a ratchet/socket on the crank. Plugs were removed and I soaked the cylinders, trans in 3rd gear I pushed the car back and forth. I saw the fan move SLIGHTLY.

If I remember it right, I kept working it back and forth, it would only turn a degree or two in each direction when I started, but eventually I was able to get a full revolution.

Here is the video of that process, go straight to about 9 minutes to see when I started to loosen the engine up:

https://youtu.be/tXiEbqKFAR0

It is now a fantastic running engine, no smoke and has great oil pressure.

jimTN · 04-27-2023, 03:40 PM

Also pull the starter and use a big screwdriver or prybar on the flywheel teeth, alternating in both directions. It may be an engine with little wear and little clearance around the pistons and may even hav steel pistons.

Lanny · 04-27-2023, 04:03 PM

Don't waste time using 50-50 mix acetone and tranny fluid, it's a joke.
I have had 2 experiments soaking in that mix for 6 years, both Still Stuck.
If people are getting something freed up with 50-50, it was Not very rusty !

First is a very rusty nut and bolt that I check a few times a year, it will not
budge, even with 1/2" drive tools and lots of pressure. Forget it

The second experiment is with a small rusty hinge, been soaking 6 years to.
I check it often, I even pounded a screw driver in one end, thinking that will
bust it loose. As you can see, it's Still like a clam with lockjaw

Buy a GOOD rust penetrant and soak lifters, valve guides, pistons, cam,
anything that rotates or moves, soak them often

Click on pics to Enlarge

flatford8 · 04-27-2023, 04:10 PM

I’m not a fan of forcing a motor to turn. Even if it starts to turn you can still do damage. Soak it a lot and patience really is the key. I made one of these to turn one over for disassembly........Mark

rotorwrench · 04-27-2023, 05:00 PM

I purchased an 8BA engine that a guy had tried to pull start the vehicle it was in with a tractor. The valves were stuck so bad that it drove one tappet onto the valve stem plumb through the face of the tappet. The cam shaft broke into three pieces. He should have pulled the head before pulling it with the tractor. The block is good but the valves took me a while to extract. I learned from that guy that pulling the heads is the better idea. All it will cost is a set of gaskets and the possible extraction of a broken head bolt or two.

Flatheads are fun but not necessarily easy to get to that fun.

petehoovie · 04-27-2023, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatford8

I’m not a fan of forcing a motor to turn. Even if it starts to turn you can still do damage. Soak it a lot and patience really is the key. I made one of these to turn one over for disassembly........Mark

BlueSpark · 04-27-2023, 07:14 PM

Jack, if I can pull the heads, clean things up, and put it back together without having parts leftover you can too. When you pull the heads no springs fly out or anything. Mine started right up after this. This forum will get you through! The acetone/ATF seemed to work for me but thats all I tried. The head studs will be stuck to the head so you have to do something...

04-27-2023, 09:46 AM	#1
Jacks 36 Find Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 15	V8 Sitting 18 years, won't turn over Hello. I'm a new member with you. I just picked up a 1936 Ford barn find. I've had two other Flat Head V8's, a 1938 and 1940 but that was back in the late 70's and early 80's. So it's nice to get back with the V8's. I searched the FAQ but didn't find an answer to my issue. My 36 was driven into a garage 18 years ago and never started since. There is oil in the pan a bit dirty but at the correct level. There is no evidence of water on the oil. The engine won't turn over. I pulled the plugs and can only see the valves but there wasn't any rust showing. I can't see into the cylinders but have squirted in a bunch of Mystery Marvel oil and let it soak. I put the car in 3rd gear and tried rocking the car back and forth but so far, the engine won't break free. I've got some Kroil coming and will try that but for now I'm stuck, just like the engine. Anyone have a suggestion? I'm trying to avoid pulling the heads for a look see at the cylinders as I fear breaking a stud(s). Thanks in advance. Jack Last edited by Jacks 36 Find; 04-30-2023 at 10:27 AM. Reason: Adding picture

04-27-2023, 10:15 AM	#2
alanwoodieman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: upstate SC Posts: 2,964	Re: V8 Sitting 18 years, won't turn over 50/50 mixture of acetone and automatic trans fluid and pour into spark plug hole and even down the carb. let set for week and put into high gear and rock car to try to move engine over, if it moves let it set for a day and do it again. usually that works--remember it is usually the valves that stick

04-27-2023, 11:24 AM	#3
rockfla Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 3,963	Re: V8 Sitting 18 years, won't turn over The clutch "could" be stuck as well. Make sure its in neutral and rock the car and see IF it rolls, IF not then you should see the the fan blade turn as you rock it (with the plugs out of course) Soaking the engine is NOT a bad Idea either way BUT IF the clutch is stuck you might be worrying about the wrong thing. ALSO MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) works well as a "soaker" too!!!! Last edited by rockfla; 04-27-2023 at 11:34 AM.

04-27-2023, 11:48 AM	#4
deuce lover Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern France Posts: 5,307	Re: V8 Sitting 18 years, won't turn over Welcome to FordBarn ! As rockfla said. Check the clutch first.

04-27-2023, 12:09 PM	#5
Vics Stuff Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Reno Nevada Posts: 391	Re: V8 Sitting 18 years, won't turn over I am experiencing the same issue. Soaked the engine in 50/50 ATF and Acetone for a few years . Verified that the clutch is not stuck. Rocked the truck back and forth many many times and still stuck. This was a great running engine before I had parked it. As life came , it sat for over 20 years and now I can not get the engine to turn over. I have been told that if the valves are stuck , I could damage the engine by rocking back and forth. At this point I am looking at removing the heads to check the valve trane. Vic

04-27-2023, 12:33 PM	#7
swedishsteel Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 342	Re: V8 Sitting 18 years, won't turn over Condensation over the years has rusted something(s)--rings rusted to cylinder walls, lifters rusted to guides, clutch rusted to flywheel/pressure plate, valves stuck.....or all of the above. My experience is that if it doesn't come loose with a week or so of soaking, there will enough crud in it you wouldn't want to start it if you do get it loose. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the best solution is to pull it out and clean it up. Good luck.

04-27-2023, 12:48 PM	#8
T Scott Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: East Boothbay, Maine Posts: 279	Re: V8 Sitting 18 years, won't turn over I would remove the heads and intake manifold. You can then get some MMO on the lifters and valve stems. Also, there is most likely rust on the cylinder walls. Since it is abrasive, it would be best to remove this before rotating the engine. Regarding a stuck clutch, I had this same issue recently. I jacked up both rear wheels and with the transmission in third gear and with the engine running set the throttle at about 35 MPH. Then with the clutch pedal depressed applied the brakes. The first two tries killed the engine. The third freed up the clutch with no apparent damage to the disc since it operates smoothly with no chatter.

04-27-2023, 01:28 PM	#9
petehoovie Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 8,151	Re: V8 Sitting 18 years, won't turn over Jack. Have you tried turning the engine over with the plugs out using a hand crank? __________________ The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others.... *"Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!"* "We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0

04-27-2023, 02:07 PM	#10
Flathead Fever Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Yucaipa, CA Posts: 1,095	Re: V8 Sitting 18 years, won't turn over If it was a stuck clutch, you should still be able l turn it over in neutral. I have early 1920s Mack "C" cab truck that was under a dry shed. The engine was rebuilt but set for many-many-years. It's stuck solid as a rock. The cylinders have been socking in a 50/50 mix of acetone and Marvel Mystery Oil for a year. Can't crank it over with a battery and starter because it never came with them, just a hand crank. The entire electrical system is one wire to a magneto. I have a lot of car projects ahead of this one so I will let then cylinders continue to soak. We had a 1965 Hyster forklift at the phone company that went through oil like. The supply department ran it out of oil and seized the crank bearings. The younger mechanic were ready to tear down the engine for a rebuild. We had an old-time mechanic there that said just put some oil in it and drag it around the yard in high-gear. We chained it to Marmon Herrington 4X4 F-650, in 4wd low. and after about a mile of dragging it, leaving skids marks across the yard the engine broke free. 20-years later it was still running with those seized up bearings, not even a knock out of them. Normally we did better quality work than that.

04-27-2023, 02:34 PM	#11
Jacks 36 Find Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 15	Re: V8 Sitting 18 years, won't turn over Unfortunately I don’t have the crank. I’m gonna try a socket and breaker bar instead.

04-27-2023, 02:54 PM	#13
kurt v Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: summerton, sc Posts: 353	Re: V8 Sitting 18 years, won't turn over I think you will be better off rocking the car in gear than using the breaker bar on the crank, it will come loose just takes time.

04-27-2023, 03:26 PM	#14
rjlester Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 247	Re: V8 Sitting 18 years, won't turn over My 54 Meteor was stuck but a "ran when parked" in 1966. I could not turn it over with a ratchet/socket on the crank. Plugs were removed and I soaked the cylinders, trans in 3rd gear I pushed the car back and forth. I saw the fan move SLIGHTLY. If I remember it right, I kept working it back and forth, it would only turn a degree or two in each direction when I started, but eventually I was able to get a full revolution. Here is the video of that process, go straight to about 9 minutes to see when I started to loosen the engine up: https://youtu.be/tXiEbqKFAR0 It is now a fantastic running engine, no smoke and has great oil pressure.

04-27-2023, 03:40 PM	#15
jimTN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Powell, TN Posts: 2,509	Re: V8 Sitting 18 years, won't turn over Also pull the starter and use a big screwdriver or prybar on the flywheel teeth, alternating in both directions. It may be an engine with little wear and little clearance around the pistons and may even hav steel pistons.

04-27-2023, 05:00 PM	#18
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: V8 Sitting 18 years, won't turn over I purchased an 8BA engine that a guy had tried to pull start the vehicle it was in with a tractor. The valves were stuck so bad that it drove one tappet onto the valve stem plumb through the face of the tappet. The cam shaft broke into three pieces. He should have pulled the head before pulling it with the tractor. The block is good but the valves took me a while to extract. I learned from that guy that pulling the heads is the better idea. All it will cost is a set of gaskets and the possible extraction of a broken head bolt or two. Flatheads are fun but not necessarily easy to get to that fun.

04-27-2023, 07:14 PM	#20
BlueSpark Member Join Date: Feb 2023 Location: San Jose CA Posts: 61	Re: V8 Sitting 18 years, won't turn over Jack, if I can pull the heads, clean things up, and put it back together without having parts leftover you can too. When you pull the heads no springs fly out or anything. Mine started right up after this. This forum will get you through! The acetone/ATF seemed to work for me but thats all I tried. The head studs will be stuck to the head so you have to do something...