Charging help needed please

[flatheadmurre]

That´s higher then i would expect.
It´s even higher then a std 2 brush field winding.
Some of the special high power generators had field windings that high...i better dig out the generator repair manual...it has a chart of all the windings if i rember right...

[flatheadmurre]

Here´s a chart over early ford windings available.
A later 12v winding would be in that range to...but why combine it with a 3-brush setup...
Will take some reverse engineering to get it sorted out...

[glennpm]

Hi flatheadmurre,


Don't forget that my generator was supposed to have had the field coils changed to 12V. From what I can see at the brushes, all are connected like a stock three brush. I got no details or instructions after the work was done.



I measured the resistance twice on the lowest setting of my meter. The resistance of the unit and wire leads is .6 ohms. I measured 6 ohms so subtracting .6 for the unit and leads, I get 5.4. I put a wood tongue depressor under the third brush while doing this.


Thanks for your help!

[glennpm]

Sorry, the picture of the chart is too small to read. When enlarged it is just blurred.



Glenn

[flatheadmurre]

Trying to size the pic for the sight to accept it...
It either rejects it as to large...or unreadabe...
Someone with better computer skills have to enlighten me on what the limitations are...i´ll give it another try...

[glennpm]

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I'll PM you

[glennpm]

Okay I found a value of 5.44 ohms and it is noted as for 12 volts.


Glenn

[glennpm]

Hi,



I am unable to find instructions on how to modify the field coil wiring and where to mount the wire that is presently attached to the third brush. Surprised that no one has done this for the early Ford 3 brush generator. My 12V fields won't work with the Fun Project cut out.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by glennpm

Surprised that no one has done this for the early Ford 3 brush generator.

Any conversions I have seen or read about used a 2-brush generator as the base unit.

[glennpm]

Yes JSeery, that's all I've found.


Thanks

[glennpm]

Since I have a GM regulator I would need to follow this wiring but I don't understand what this means, "GM/MOPAR (one side regulator, other side armature". I need a wiring diagram.


https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...ersion.191151/


"Like I mentioned, it's done quite a bit on the old Harleys - I'll see if I can't scare up the process. But as you mention, it should be a matter of connecting the two fields in series & grounding according to the type of regulator - I'd do it like the early Fords (one side ground, other side to regulator) rather than GM/MOPAR (one side regulator, other side armature)."

[koates]

OK, it seems that your generator is not the Ford system field control so do this test and report back. Remove the field wire from the regulator and connect it to a good ground. Start and rev engine up and report the results. It should charge high if the generator is OK. This is the GM circuit where the field is controlled to ground. Seems your generator could have been converted to this set up but we really don't know what was altered inside that generator. If it does not charge after that test then most likely the generator is faulty. I can see by your posts that you don't really know a lot about generators so suggest that you find an auto electrician who does know how to repair this generator. You are only guessing and maybe making more trouble for yourself. Do the test. Regards, Kevin.

[glennpm]

Okay Kevin, disconnecting and grounding the FLD wire to ground shows a very positive charge rate!

From my resistance measurements yesterday, I have 12V field coils. My voltage regulator is a GM.


Thanks,
Glenn

[flatheadmurre]

Is there any numbers on the voltage regulator you have to identify it ?
Any 12v A type regulator will do the regulate the voltage...what you want to know is the output limitation in amps you need...
The wiring is basicly the same what is different between A type (GM) and B type(ford) is that A grounds the field wire to regulate while B applies voltage to field wire.

[glennpm]

Hi,


Yes, the number on the side of the base is "2135 12V N/P" a GM type, externally grounded. Checks I did a little while ago indicate that the Field coils may not be insulated from the case. Maybe I should have been sold a B type.



With the field wire disconnected from the regulator I get:


ARM wire at brush to field wire = 6.8ohms
field wire to case = 6.7ohms


I called the shop that did the original work today back in 1990 and talked to someone who was helpful and I'm waiting on a return text from him now, if not I'll call again tomorrow.


Thanks,
Glenn

[koates]

OK Glen, now we are getting somewhere. Seems that the generator is OK. Your voltage regulator cutout contacts are closing when you rev engine up and gen is charging with the field wire connected to ground. This means that there is an issue with the voltage regulator voltage contacts or current control contacts. Reconnect the field wire to the regulator. Try holding the voltage regulator contacts closed (the end ones)with your fingers and rev engine up (might need another helper here) and see if you get some charge happening. If you do get a charge then the voltage reg contacts may need dressing. Cut a strip of very fine wet and dry paper and fold it in half and move it back and forth through the contacts for a while. Blow any residue away with a little compressed air. See how you go with that. Dont bend anything there, be gentle. Might have to do a voltage adjustment later if the cleaning of contacts works. DONT touch anything in the generator again. Regards, Kevin.

[glennpm]

Okay Kevin, will do this tomorrow even though the regulator is brand new, it is old and may have a film on the points.


Thanks!

[Lawson Cox]

Contact my wife. She charges everything. LOL

[glennpm]

I got it working!

I sanded the points, sprayed with contact cleaner and ran heavy white paper through the points to make sure they were clean. I also checked all of the thin coil wiring between the coils visually, a little prodding with a small screwdriver and then checked for continuity. The shop that did the work said that shorts in these tiny wires are one of the most common faults. After all this it still wasn't charging.

I found that if I put a small amount of pressure on the top of the voltage solenoid, that I would get it charging. At a loss with what else to do, I decided to put more pressure on the contact by bending the bottom spring tab which stretches the spring out a little more, adding pressure to the points. I measured the distance from the tab to the base plate first at 24/64" so I had a base line to go back to if needed. I also noticed that the amperage, middle core, bottom tab was around 3 or 4/64ths closer to the base. I bent the tab on the voltage solenoid down just 1/64" more to a value of about 23/64" from the base to a point on the spring tab anchor and that did the trick! This is hard to see in my attached picture, but movement was only 1/64".

Thanks to everyone for the help and especially to Lawson's wife ;-)

Glenn

[koates]

Glen, that's good news. I will get back to you later on how to adjust the voltage and current settings, Im a bit busy right now. Many of these new reproduction made in INDIA or CHINA regulators are not adjusted correctly. Regards, Kevin.