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Old 08-28-2020, 05:45 PM   #1
ossieandgeorge
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Default Throw out bearing spring replacement

My 1929 Model A throw out bearing does not pull back all the way when I release the clutch. It moves back freely by hand when I move it through the inspection plate.
Can I replace the spring through the inspection hole?
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Old 08-28-2020, 05:55 PM   #2
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

Yes, but that might not pull it all the way up. Take a good look at it before you take things apart.
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Old 08-28-2020, 06:08 PM   #3
ossieandgeorge
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

I also greased the throwout bearing slider and it moves freely
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Old 08-28-2020, 09:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

It can be done. I have a pair of long nose vice grips. The difficulty is looping one end of the spring through the hole in the transmission front bearing retainer. the vice grips will ensure you don't drop it. Hooking the spring to the throw out bearing collar is the easy part.

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Old 08-28-2020, 09:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

It can be done. You will likely drop it several times before getting it hooked.
Loop a string to it through one of the coils before you start, so you can easily retrieve it and start again. After hooking on the bearing retainer and throw out bearing collar, just pull the string back out.
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Old 08-29-2020, 06:52 AM   #6
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

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Thanks folks. Any other pointers welcomed. Until I get the spring swapped out, no clutch adjustment is possible because the slider returns to random spots upon releasing the clutch petal. Off to pick up a new spring.

Last edited by ossieandgeorge; 08-30-2020 at 05:39 AM. Reason: .
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Old 08-29-2020, 08:10 AM   #7
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

' havoc(and expense). '

???????
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Old 08-29-2020, 09:03 AM   #8
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

You might want to check your clutch linkage while you're at it.. especially the adjustment shaft & trunion. Look for wear in the clutch pedal where the trunion fits. It's not uncommon to see the holes in the clutch pedal where the trunion fits completely worn out. Adjust the linkage for approximately 1" of free pedal play before the throwout bearing engages with the clutch fingers.
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Old 08-29-2020, 01:33 PM   #9
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

Thank GRutter. I just picked up parts as a lot was worn(new main pedal shaft and pedal bushings, spacer washer, new collar, new trunion and shaft).
QUESTION: How much up and down travel/movement should the clutch arm on the bell housing have when moved manually(with adjusting rod/shaft disconnected)??
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Old 08-29-2020, 03:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

Glad you checked your linkage. With everything disconnected you will have a lot of travel of the clutch arm. You are just moving (rotating) the forks at this point. When you put it all back together you will adjust the trunion so that you have approx 1" of pedal travel before engaging the clutch release fingers.
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Old 08-29-2020, 03:52 PM   #11
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

There should not be too much 'up and down' bushing clearance movement. I think thats what your asking. The pedals should work fully and freely. Those bushings shouldn't be too loose, but, should still work fine if they are a bit sloppy. It is a lot of work to change them.
I'd recommend installing the spring, adjusting the free-play to 1.0-1.5", greasing the bushings and see how it works.
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Old 08-29-2020, 05:17 PM   #12
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

Thanks guys. Tomorrow I will get back at it. Not sure how to pull the pin that holds the Brake/Clutch Pedal Shaft in place. My shaft is highly worn so I think I should replace it.
Looks like the mushroom head holding pin is pushed in from the top with no way to drive it out from underneath. Tricks for that one???
Sorry for all the questions...I'm only 3 weeks into ownership.
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Old 08-29-2020, 06:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

If I remember correctly the pin is tapered. Look at the new one.
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Old 08-29-2020, 06:56 PM   #14
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

The reproduction springs have too long a tail on them.
Do yourself a favor and cut the tails shorter before you try to install. Otherwise you will be fighting it tremendously . I use a heavy cutter or you can hack off some with a cutoff wheel
Larry Shepard

Last edited by larrys40; 08-29-2020 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 08-29-2020, 07:50 PM   #15
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

To replace the pedal shaft you will have to have the trans out of the car. You have to have access to the inside as the pin will probably have to have heat put to it and it might need to be driven out from the outside depending on how it was put in. A bandaid to a worn pedal shaft is to put new bushings in your pedals which will take up some of the wear if you don't ream them. Just a fix until the winter.
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Old 08-29-2020, 09:19 PM   #16
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

Yes, the new one is tappered
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Old 08-29-2020, 09:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

Thanks Larrys40. They did look long. I will cut them back as suggested.
I really hope the weak old spring is what's causing for the clutch adjusting issue(throw out bearing slider never returning all the way back after clutching)
The loose petals/bushings are probably not the main issue but we will see.
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Old 08-30-2020, 08:29 AM   #18
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

Make sure your pedals and hub are free . If there’s lots of old grease and or gardeners grease take a little brake clean and spray around the clutch hub ( pedal depress) toward the back end. Do what you can to make sure hub is sliding freely and put dress grease into hub .
If you drop the spring don’t despair , have a magnet ready .
God luck !!
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Old 08-30-2020, 10:59 AM   #19
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

Drop the spring ?
As Tom said, vise grips.
Don't trust the vise grips ?, add a string.
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Old 08-30-2020, 03:46 PM   #20
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

So the good news. The new spring is installed!!!! Used the string for safety, hooked the back end on by hand and the front end using vise grips. I did have to cut a bit off the front hook to get it on. The new spring helped a lot to pull the throw out bearing slider all the way back allowing for a better clutch adjustment. The old spring was spent.
All your suggestions were very helpful!!! I could not load pics. into the tread. I added them to my profile.
Bad news is there is still a lot of play/wobble on the clutch pedal where it is attached to the clutch/brake shaft. It causes the pedal to bind up a bit when I release it not allowing it to return to its adjusted "resting" position when not being used.
I cannot get the pin out that holds the shaft collar in place to put new bushings in.
Tapping out(as hard as I dare hit it) did not move it. I also cut off both ends of the pin flush with collar and tried to tap it out again without success. ugh... Ideas???

Last edited by ossieandgeorge; 08-30-2020 at 07:44 PM. Reason: .
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Old 08-30-2020, 04:02 PM   #21
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

So I got the pin out of the shaft/collar. I ended up cutting off the collar with a small grinder. With that off, the rest of the pin slowly tapped out.
Installed new bushings in the pedals, greased it up nice and put it all back together.
Not perfect but the clutch pedal movement is mush smoother now and allows for an easier adjustment and throw-out bearing is pulling back appropriately when the clutch is disengaged.

Last edited by ossieandgeorge; 09-01-2020 at 07:55 AM.
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Old 09-01-2020, 08:01 AM   #22
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

Meanwhile, with all the starting of the car for the clutch adjustment, my battery slowly died. It made no sense but after investigation I noticed the new battery was hooked up opposite by the previous owner I bought the car from last month. Maybe that explains why the amp. meter was registering charge when I turn the lights on with the car off.
Charging the battery now and will report back.
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Old 09-01-2020, 10:12 AM   #23
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

It should be positive (+) ground.
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Old 09-01-2020, 11:24 AM   #24
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by ossieandgeorge View Post
Meanwhile, with all the starting of the car for the clutch adjustment, my battery slowly died. It made no sense but after investigation I noticed the new battery was hooked up opposite by the previous owner I bought the car from last month. Maybe that explains why the amp. meter was registering charge when I turn the lights on with the car off.
Charging the battery now and will report back.



From what you say the battery was probably installed backwards. But my first question would be, what size battery are you using ? 6v or 12v ? Alternator or generator ?

I'm wondering why the engine was started so many times for the clutch adjustment, but, thats OK, no matter.
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Old 09-01-2020, 07:20 PM   #25
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

Hi Patrick...6v and a generator. Battery charged back up to 100%. Installed it back in(positive to ground strap). Started right up and Amp. meter working the right way now.

Clutch adjustment is very tricky on mine. Either it's to far in and the throw out bearing touches and spins when the clutch pedal is released or it is to far out and the gears grind when putting it into gear.
The throw out slider still does not pull all the way back even after greasing and replacing the spring.
The clutch is also slipping in 2nd and 3rd. so I may be looking at a bigger overhaul then I anticipated.
I do have a question, is "free play" on the pedal actually the travel of the throw out slider moving towards the fingers until contact is made or is "free play" start after the bearing touches the fingers but resistance is still not that hard? I understand it measured at the pedal just curious what the mechanics of free play are inside the clutch.
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Old 09-01-2020, 08:24 PM   #26
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

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Free play should be adjusted so that there is some minimal movement of the CLUTCH PEDAL before the throwout bearing contacts the fingers on the clutch, which insures that the clutch is not partially depressed and causing it to slip.

An inch of PEDAL travel is about normal... but a little more or less doesn't hurt. But you must have SOME free travel in the pedal.

If your clutch is slipping then either you don't have any free play in your adjustment, or your clutch disk is completely worn out.. BUT.....

If your clutch wasn't slipping prior to you working on the pedal return problem, then it's probably your linkage adjustment... You may not have any free play. AND....

If the gears weren't grinding before, then you have may have too much free play and can't fully disengage the clutch.

Gear grinding could also be caused by not having the correct oil in the transmission, or oil level too low. It should be at the level of the filler plug opening on the side of the transmission.
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Old 09-02-2020, 05:33 AM   #27
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Default Re: Throw out bearing spring replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by ossieandgeorge View Post
Hi Patrick...6v and a generator. Battery charged back up to 100%. Installed it back in(positive to ground strap). Started right up and Amp. meter working the right way now.

Clutch adjustment is very tricky on mine. Either it's to far in and the throw out bearing touches and spins when the clutch pedal is released or it is to far out and the gears grind when putting it into gear.
The throw out slider still does not pull all the way back even after greasing and replacing the spring.
The clutch is also slipping in 2nd and 3rd. so I may be looking at a bigger overhaul then I anticipated.
I do have a question, is "free play" on the pedal actually the travel of the throw out slider moving towards the fingers until contact is made or is "free play" start after the bearing touches the fingers but resistance is still not that hard? I understand it measured at the pedal just curious what the mechanics of free play are inside the clutch.



Glad to hear the charging system works as it should now.

Free-play is the free travel of the clutch pedal from the fully released position to where you just start to feel some resistance in the pedal. In other words its the distance the release bearing travels from fully released to where it just contacts the pressure plate fingers. That distance should be about 1.5".
You don't the bearing contacting the fingers and spinning all the time, it won't last long.
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