The Ford Barn

TommyCoupe · 08-21-2016, 11:25 AM

It's only noon here in CT, and already I've had my @$$ kicked by this car.

I've been having electrical/generator problems, which I though I had licked. Went out this morning and polarized the generator and started the car up. The ammeter may have moved a small amount when it was running, but if it did move, it was an insignificant amount. Revved the engine for a while and still no major movement.
Turned it off and measured battery voltage. 6.14v not running.
Started the engine again and voltage at the battery was 6.08.
The voltage at the cutout was 6.14. So my guess is that the generator isn't working.

Just before I shut the engine down again, I notice a lot of steam coming out of the overflow tube. So great, now I'm thinking I have a timing problem or carb problem, or who the h#!! knows. Probably someone on the barn would know, but today I'm just too stupid.

So, OK. Let's forget about that and move onto putting some glass in the car. I started on the passenger side quarter window. Just as put the last screw in, I hear a little snap sound, and a nice crack runs right down the middle of it.

Another lesson learned the hard way. I should start a thread listing all the things I have learned the hard way, so other people can learn from my stupidness. (Is that word ?)

So, OK. Let's just put it back in the garage. Got in the car, stepped on the starter button and the starter barely turns. I checked the battery voltage, and guess what. It was 6.14V.

Then after I struggle to push it into the garage (uphill by myself) it starts drizzling outside. The car kind of needed a cleaning anyway, but it just made it harder to get into the garage.

Finally got in the garage, and put the battery charger on it. Battery level looks low, but there aren't any meters on it or anything so I don't know what the real voltage is. It just says "charging 25%".

I'm going to go out and put the old 1970's SEARS charger on it and see what happens. I believe that one has an ammeter on it.

So, for today I am defeated. I won't get far on this car working just the weekends when things like this happens.

Ever have one of these days ?

Tommy-

William Kelchner · 08-21-2016, 11:51 AM

Hang in there it gets worse. :

) I spent the last several weeks trying to hook up the emergency brake to work on my car, it has hydraulic brakes and the emerg brake never worked, in fact it was not even connected. I finally won and I feel your pain. In my case I believe the score is 3 to 16 in favor of the car.... Cheers

700rpm · 08-21-2016, 12:31 PM

Was that window plate glass?

TommyCoupe · 08-21-2016, 02:33 PM

No. Safety glass.

So I dug through my pile of old stuff and found the original piece of glass. Of course it has 50 year old primer on it, and was pitted a bit, but I cleaned it up and put it in. It looks OK for now, but I'll have to replace it before the interior goes in.

mshmodela · 08-21-2016, 03:59 PM

Tommy,

Sorry to read of your troubles... I'd take a few days break get some good sleep and think about what might be causeing your issues.. When my ass is kicked by a problem, I have to take a break or walk... You'll figure this out...

Best wishes.

Mike V. Florida · 08-21-2016, 11:29 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyCoupe

I've been having electrical/generator problems, which I though I had licked. Went out this morning and polarized the generator and started the car up. The ammeter may have moved a small amount when it was running, but if it did move, it was an insignificant amount. Revved the engine for a while and still no major movement.
Turned it off and measured battery voltage. 6.14v not running.
Started the engine again and voltage at the battery was 6.08.
The voltage at the cutout was 6.14. So my guess is that the generator isn't working.

Let's see;

Car off the voltage at the battery is 6.14.
Car running 6.08 at the battery.
Where are to measuring on the cut out? The output where the wires to the car are attached, has one wire that goes through the ammeter back to the battery so it should read the battery voltage. The other side of the cutout is the generator output. When the car is running if the voltage at this point is above the battery voltage the cut out is not closing.

I hope I have not confused you more.

Car off, generator side of cut out should read nothing. Output of cut out where the wires attach should read the same as the the reading of the battery.

Car on and at a fast idle, Generator side of cut out should
be above the battery voltage.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 08-22-2016, 12:37 AM

Mamma said there will be DAYS LIKE THAT, sorry you had one.
Problems always seem WORSE when it's your OWN car! It's like, MY car isn't supposed to BREAK! I just haul extra parts for OTHER people.
Bill W.

cradlescyth · 08-22-2016, 03:53 AM

Welcom to the club !!!

TommyCoupe · 08-22-2016, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Let's see;

Car off the voltage at the battery is 6.14.
Car running 6.08 at the battery.
Where are to measuring on the cut out? The output where the wires to the car are attached, has one wire that goes through the ammeter back to the battery so it should read the battery voltage. The other side of the cutout is the generator output. When the car is running if the voltage at this point is above the battery voltage the cut out is not closing.

I hope I have not confused you more.

Car off, generator side of cut out should read nothing. Output of cut out where the wires attach should read the same as the the reading of the battery.

Car on and at a fast idle, Generator side of cut out should
be above the battery voltage.

Charged the battery, and it now reads 6.22V with the engine off.
With the engine on, the battery is about the same. The cutout (where the yellow wire attaches) is the same as the battery. The opposite side of the cutout(where the post comes out of the gen) bounces around, but reads around 35V.
Is that right ???

Before doing all this, I pulled the generator out of the car and took the cutout off of it. Then with jumper cables I connected it to the battery, and the motor spun slowly. Then cleaned all the connections and put it back in.

Am I just wasting my time. In a few days I could have a brand new 6V Positive ground alternator delivered to my doorstep, and I think these troubles would go away.

Tommy-

C26Pinelake · 08-22-2016, 06:11 PM

Should have had your wife push the car and you play flagman and direct het! Wayne

Tom Wesenberg · 08-22-2016, 06:23 PM

Looks like you have a bad cutout.
As soon as the engine starts jump across the two cutout terminals and read the voltage at fast idle.

Willie Krash · 08-22-2016, 06:28 PM

Zen master says Model A will teach you patience and tolerance.
You are not alone.

Mike V. Florida · 08-22-2016, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyCoupe

Am I just wasting my time. In a few days I could have a brand new 6V Positive ground alternator delivered to my doorstep, and I think these troubles would go away.

Tommy-

Learning is never a waste of time. If you want to get rid of that "clunker" I'll buy it.

TommyCoupe · 08-23-2016, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Looks like you have a bad cutout.
As soon as the engine starts jump across the two cutout terminals and read the voltage at fast idle.

It's a brand new Bert's cutout.

Tommy-

tbirdtbird · 08-23-2016, 11:35 AM

new or one he rebuilt

Mitch//pa · 08-23-2016, 11:52 AM

Diode or contact style

Tom Wesenberg · 08-23-2016, 12:41 PM

"Charged the battery, and it now reads 6.22V with the engine off.
With the engine on, the battery is about the same. The cutout (where the yellow wire attaches) is the same as the battery. The opposite side of the cutout(where the post comes out of the gen) bounces around, but reads around 35V.
Is that right ???"

Are you using a digital meter? If so, ditch it and use an analog meter, so you can get an accurate reading.

If the voltage is truly that high it indicates the current isn't being passed to the output side of the cutout. Start the engine and jump across the cutout terminals and see what the voltage reads.

Mike V. Florida · 08-23-2016, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyCoupe

It's a brand new Bert's cutout.

Tommy-

Call him.

Tom Wesenberg · 08-23-2016, 10:38 PM

Any chance the cutout is installed backwards?

Is your battery + ground?

TommyCoupe · 08-24-2016, 07:35 AM

Yes. The battery is positive ground.
When I called Bert's I asked for a restored original cutout, but I think it's a new one.
There is a picture of it in this thread. Post #23
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...=201118&page=2

I'll play around with it again tonight, and read the voltage across the cutout terminals.

Thanks Guys.

Tommy-

08-21-2016, 11:25 AM	#1
TommyCoupe Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Connecticut Posts: 204	Weekend Warrior defeated It's only noon here in CT, and already I've had my @$$ kicked by this car. I've been having electrical/generator problems, which I though I had licked. Went out this morning and polarized the generator and started the car up. The ammeter may have moved a small amount when it was running, but if it did move, it was an insignificant amount. Revved the engine for a while and still no major movement. Turned it off and measured battery voltage. 6.14v not running. Started the engine again and voltage at the battery was 6.08. The voltage at the cutout was 6.14. So my guess is that the generator isn't working. Just before I shut the engine down again, I notice a lot of steam coming out of the overflow tube. So great, now I'm thinking I have a timing problem or carb problem, or who the h#!! knows. Probably someone on the barn would know, but today I'm just too stupid. So, OK. Let's forget about that and move onto putting some glass in the car. I started on the passenger side quarter window. Just as put the last screw in, I hear a little snap sound, and a nice crack runs right down the middle of it. Another lesson learned the hard way. I should start a thread listing all the things I have learned the hard way, so other people can learn from my stupidness. (Is that word ?) So, OK. Let's just put it back in the garage. Got in the car, stepped on the starter button and the starter barely turns. I checked the battery voltage, and guess what. It was 6.14V. Then after I struggle to push it into the garage (uphill by myself) it starts drizzling outside. The car kind of needed a cleaning anyway, but it just made it harder to get into the garage. Finally got in the garage, and put the battery charger on it. Battery level looks low, but there aren't any meters on it or anything so I don't know what the real voltage is. It just says "charging 25%". I'm going to go out and put the old 1970's SEARS charger on it and see what happens. I believe that one has an ammeter on it. So, for today I am defeated. I won't get far on this car working just the weekends when things like this happens. Ever have one of these days ? Tommy-

08-21-2016, 12:31 PM	#3
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,903	Re: Weekend Warrior defeated Was that window plate glass? __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

08-21-2016, 02:33 PM	#4
TommyCoupe Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Connecticut Posts: 204	Re: Weekend Warrior defeated No. Safety glass. So I dug through my pile of old stuff and found the original piece of glass. Of course it has 50 year old primer on it, and was pitted a bit, but I cleaned it up and put it in. It looks OK for now, but I'll have to replace it before the interior goes in.

08-21-2016, 03:59 PM	#5
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,763	Re: Weekend Warrior defeated Tommy, Sorry to read of your troubles... I'd take a few days break get some good sleep and think about what might be causeing your issues.. When my ass is kicked by a problem, I have to take a break or walk... You'll figure this out... Best wishes. __________________ -Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio

08-22-2016, 12:37 AM	#7
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Weekend Warrior defeated Mamma said there will be DAYS LIKE THAT, sorry you had one. Problems always seem WORSE when it's your OWN car! It's like, MY car isn't supposed to BREAK! I just haul extra parts for OTHER people. Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF" Last edited by BILL WILLIAMSON; 08-22-2016 at 06:37 PM.

08-21-2016, 11:51 AM	#2
William Kelchner Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Warrenton, Va. Posts: 459	Re: Weekend Warrior defeated Hang in there it gets worse. :) I spent the last several weeks trying to hook up the emergency brake to work on my car, it has hydraulic brakes and the emerg brake never worked, in fact it was not even connected. I finally won and I feel your pain. In my case I believe the score is 3 to 16 in favor of the car.... Cheers

08-22-2016, 03:53 AM	#8
cradlescyth Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Taunton Ma Posts: 342	Re: Weekend Warrior defeated Welcom to the club !!!

08-22-2016, 06:11 PM	#10
C26Pinelake BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan / Ontario border, Sarnia, Ontario. 50 miles from Detroit and 150 from Toronto. Posts: 5,800	Re: Weekend Warrior defeated Should have had your wife push the car and you play flagman and direct het! Wayne

08-22-2016, 06:23 PM	#11
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Weekend Warrior defeated Looks like you have a bad cutout. As soon as the engine starts jump across the two cutout terminals and read the voltage at fast idle.

08-22-2016, 06:28 PM	#12
Willie Krash Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Phoenix, Oregon Posts: 661	Re: Weekend Warrior defeated Zen master says Model A will teach you patience and tolerance. You are not alone. __________________ Mike Stitt "A business that make nothing but money is a poor business." -Henry Ford

08-23-2016, 11:35 AM	#15
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Weekend Warrior defeated new or one he rebuilt __________________ '31 180A

08-23-2016, 11:52 AM	#16
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Weekend Warrior defeated Diode or contact style

08-23-2016, 12:41 PM	#17
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Weekend Warrior defeated "Charged the battery, and it now reads 6.22V with the engine off. With the engine on, the battery is about the same. The cutout (where the yellow wire attaches) is the same as the battery. The opposite side of the cutout(where the post comes out of the gen) bounces around, but reads around 35V. Is that right ???" Are you using a digital meter? If so, ditch it and use an analog meter, so you can get an accurate reading. If the voltage is truly that high it indicates the current isn't being passed to the output side of the cutout. Start the engine and jump across the cutout terminals and see what the voltage reads.

08-23-2016, 10:38 PM	#19
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Weekend Warrior defeated Any chance the cutout is installed backwards? Is your battery + ground?

08-24-2016, 07:35 AM	#20
TommyCoupe Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Connecticut Posts: 204	Re: Weekend Warrior defeated Yes. The battery is positive ground. When I called Bert's I asked for a restored original cutout, but I think it's a new one. There is a picture of it in this thread. Post #23 http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...=201118&page=2 I'll play around with it again tonight, and read the voltage across the cutout terminals. Thanks Guys. Tommy-