Is It Worth It?

[leadpot]

Have read many threads about using white vinegar in the cooling system & have considered doing that to my stock 29 tudor. I use a 160 deg thermostat & a temp gauge. Do not have overheating problems while driving. The only problem is when idling for more than a few minutes (normal Ohio summer temps) the temp starts creeping up. The gauge temp will get up to 180 -190 & can start seeing red in the motometer. Never have allowed it to go any farther than that to see how far it will go, either shut it off or get back on the road. Is it better to leave well enough alone? Is there any down side to the vinegar treatment? Any danger of breaking things loose that will cause other problems/leaks etc?

[Tom Wesenberg]

When you're idling for a few minutes where is your spark lever set?

What kind of fan do you have?

[rob63mess]

I have done the vinegar thing with some success. Lots of rust colored water comes out. However I would try to get a better idea what the temps really are without relying on the motometer. I wonder how acurate they really are.

[leadpot]

Spark always retarded & have a 4 blade fan.

[ped58]

The '29 model "A" instruction book says after starting "you advance the spark lever about half way down the quadrant".

[Logan]

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I wouldn't be concerned with 190 at idle. You're fine for now. 200-210 is when I would start to worry at idle. But as long as your not letting it sit there for 20 minutes idling then I see no reason for it to stay at 200-210 long enough to permanently damage anything. When your driving temp consistantly bumps 200-210 then it's time to start worrying.

[PC/SR]

Full retard at idle will usually cause overheating. Try it at half advance.

[Purdy Swoft]

After reading the manual, many are afraid to ever fully advance the spark. In many cases, who knows how the timing is actually set.. In the day the model A was built, octane was so low, the engine would knock if advanced very much. I've owned model A's since the spring of 1960 and this hasn't been the case in my lifetime. I retard the spark to crank the engine and fully advance the spark, quickly as soon as it cranks. I drive at speed with full advance and have done this for over 50 years. I know that this hasn't hurt my engines. I've still got my first model A that still has the original babbit but who knows about the babbit that has been used for some rebuilds. I do let mine idle with the spark retarded for the chick ah lunk sound, just to show off, but only for a very short time. If the engine runs for long with retarded spark or timeing the manifolds will get red hot. I'm not making recommendations or telling anybody what to do. This is just how I run mine.

[lookin-backtexas]

Purdy:
I too run my Model A's with the spark fully advanced and have done so for over 42 years and have never had a problem. It's hard not to "show off" by retarding the spark and hearing it "Cadillac - ta-pukita-pukita-pukita-pukita" when the timing is right on.
Fred

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by leadpot

Spark always retarded & have a 4 blade fan.

Retarded spark at idle is the reason for the temp getting high. With the engine running it should be about half way down with the stock head. High compression heads take less spark advance. As Purdy said, full retard is only to show someone how slow it can idle, but for only a few seconds.

[springerpete]

I would not be concerned with some red showing in the motometer. Sure, they are all different and not perfect, but at idle things will heat up. If you are out on the road and you get red creeping up to the top then you have an issue.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by lookin-backtexas

Purdy:
I too run my Model A's with the spark fully advanced and have done so for over 42 years and have never had a problem. It's hard not to "show off" by retarding the spark and hearing it "Cadillac - ta-pukita-pukita-pukita-pukita" when the timing is right on.
Fred

Thanks Fred for this post. Its good to know that I'm not the only one that does this. I would say the only one that knows how to drive a model A but don't want to make enemies. I feel that the owners manual pertains to the times the model A was made, in many cases. Quality of fuel and octane has been good enough , probably since the late thirties to run at speed with full advance. Thats what my uncles and other older guys taught me as a kid, so far its still holding.

[ronn]

getting back to vinegar............

a little vinegar does a nice job of cleaning and never hurt anyone either!

[Terry,NJ]

Purdy, I too run at what I think is full advance. In fact, I advance a couple of degrees to start it. Once she fires off, I yank the lever down to 9:00 O'clock position. Seems to run fine, but I'm no expert, barely a novice. On the road I can take it to 8:00 O'clock and it still runs fine. And cool too. I take it out a spin, about 4 miles (mostly flat, some small hills) and you can still put your hand on the head. Yeah it's plenty warm, but it won't burn you. The engine was bored to .125 over and the head was cut about .100. Cam and carb is stock I think.
Terry

[Purdy Swoft]

Terry, it sounds like you've got it running good.

[leadpot]

Appreciate all the replies. What I'm getting there is no down side of a vinegar cleaning. My normal attitude is leave well enough alone & not to tinker for tinkerings sake. Will decide when the snow & ice is gone.


Thanks,

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by leadpot

Appreciate all the replies. What I'm getting there is no down side of a vinegar cleaning. My normal attitude is leave well enough alone & not to tinker for tinkerings sake. Will decide when the snow & ice is gone.


Thanks,

The vinegar will take the grease out of the water pump packing and make it leak until you pack it with grease again. The loosened rust in the system can be hard on the shaft and bushing of the water pump also, so you might want to use an old pump during the vinegar treatment. The very longest I'd run the vinegar is 30 days, which is what I did last summer.

[Brobrian]

Very interesting!
What is this vinegar treatment supposed to do? Loosen rust in the block?
I read that lengthy and detailed article about cooling and coolant by a gentleman in Colorado. The conclusion I drew was that I should flush yearly, and run distilled water with Water Wetter. Perhaps I should give the old block a vinegar bath first. What say you?