The Ford Barn

Road Trip · 03-21-2024, 10:53 PM

'37 Tudor sedan. Replaced all the rubber body mounts. Two questions:

1) How tight is tight? Is there a torque spec for the body bolts?

2) It seems the pass. door has some "sag" to it. The door itself seems pretty solid, and there is no excessive slop at the pin, but the dovetail doesn't seem to line up when closing the door. It shut before (obviously), but there was wear at the bottom dovetail.

Thoughts?

marko39 · 03-22-2024, 07:35 AM

Just snug bolts up without crushing the mounts. After a while go back and check them as some will need to be tightened as body compresses mounts. For the sagging door try installing thinner mount in the hinge area which will tend to bring other end up. I had a similar situation on my 39 and that cured it.

Karl Wescott · 03-22-2024, 08:47 AM

Three (at least) possibilities here:
1. Frame/body alignment. If the frame is sagging, humped, or twisted it needs to be fixed first, or you may be able to shim out of the problem.
2. Door hinge alignment. Positioning the door in the opening is tuned by bending the hinges. Of course this requires the hinges and hinge mounts to be in good condition.
3. Dovetail alignment.

Start by seeing if you can fit the door to the opening. Loosen the hinge to body bolts, and remove the dovetails and latch striker. With the hinges loose the door should be able to move around in the opening and if you can get a good fit you can duplicate it by adjusting (bending) the hinges. If the shape of the door does not match the shape of the body you have frame or body issues.

When bending hinges for alignment spreading the knuckle moves the door front to back so you can get equal gaps, bending the strap on the lower hinge rotates the door in the opening. You may need to add a little bend to the lower hinge to compensate as the weight of the door will cause some flex. It's a very good idea to acquire a length of 9/32" drill rod (McMaster-Carr is a source) to use as a common hinge pin to fine twist the doors so the hinges have a common axis to prevent binding.

If the door shape does not match the shape of the door opening you may have serious frame issues. The best route is body off and check the frame for square, level, humps and bumps. Our frame diagram and our guide lines we have for mounting a body to frame can be a great help but of course are not a complete how to. http://www.wescottsauto.com/WebCatal..._Technical.pdf, http://www.wescottsauto.com/WebCatal...ram1935-40.pdf.

If you get everything taken care of to where the door fits "perfectly" without the dovetails then, believe it or not, Ford had three dovetails... on with the wedge centered, one with the wedge offset up, and one with the wedge offset down.

If Kube steps in with his two bits of information consider it very carefully, its worth more than that.

Zeke3 · 03-22-2024, 09:25 AM

Check the door structure where the lower hinge attaches for signs of fatigue, cracks in the metal. Pick up on the back of the door and check the lower hinge area for movement.

Road Trip · 03-23-2024, 08:10 PM

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Thanks to all that replied thus far. A bit of history on the car:

I'm doing a bit of freshening up on an existing build due to some years of neglect. Rockers, quarters, etc. Car has been in the family since '77. It got street rodded and has been on / off the road since about '81. It still carries an I beam front, so no frame mods were done. I took possession of it in '19 after my uncle passed away. I grew up in and around the car, so I have a lot if first-hand knowledge of it (and a lot of memories). The body was never off the frame prior to '77, if ever. She was never hit or had any major modifications (chopped, etc). The doors both have had some sag to them, most likely due to age. I could lift up slightly on the pass. door and make it hit the center of the dovetail with little effort. After the body mounts, it's not even close. Drivers door is currently off the car, so I really can't check that one yet.

03-21-2024, 10:53 PM	#1
Road Trip Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: North Carolina Posts: 153	'37 Body mounts / Door alignment '37 Tudor sedan. Replaced all the rubber body mounts. Two questions: 1) How tight is tight? Is there a torque spec for the body bolts? 2) It seems the pass. door has some "sag" to it. The door itself seems pretty solid, and there is no excessive slop at the pin, but the dovetail doesn't seem to line up when closing the door. It shut before (obviously), but there was wear at the bottom dovetail. Thoughts?

03-22-2024, 07:35 AM	#2
marko39 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: harpursville ny Posts: 1,040	Re: '37 Body mounts / Door alignment Just snug bolts up without crushing the mounts. After a while go back and check them as some will need to be tightened as body compresses mounts. For the sagging door try installing thinner mount in the hinge area which will tend to bring other end up. I had a similar situation on my 39 and that cured it.

03-22-2024, 08:47 AM	#3
Karl Wescott Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,289	Re: '37 Body mounts / Door alignment Three (at least) possibilities here: 1. Frame/body alignment. If the frame is sagging, humped, or twisted it needs to be fixed first, or you may be able to shim out of the problem. 2. Door hinge alignment. Positioning the door in the opening is tuned by bending the hinges. Of course this requires the hinges and hinge mounts to be in good condition. 3. Dovetail alignment. Start by seeing if you can fit the door to the opening. Loosen the hinge to body bolts, and remove the dovetails and latch striker. With the hinges loose the door should be able to move around in the opening and if you can get a good fit you can duplicate it by adjusting (bending) the hinges. If the shape of the door does not match the shape of the body you have frame or body issues. When bending hinges for alignment spreading the knuckle moves the door front to back so you can get equal gaps, bending the strap on the lower hinge rotates the door in the opening. You may need to add a little bend to the lower hinge to compensate as the weight of the door will cause some flex. It's a very good idea to acquire a length of 9/32" drill rod (McMaster-Carr is a source) to use as a common hinge pin to fine twist the doors so the hinges have a common axis to prevent binding. If the door shape does not match the shape of the door opening you may have serious frame issues. The best route is body off and check the frame for square, level, humps and bumps. Our frame diagram and our guide lines we have for mounting a body to frame can be a great help but of course are not a complete how to. http://www.wescottsauto.com/WebCatal..._Technical.pdf, http://www.wescottsauto.com/WebCatal...ram1935-40.pdf. If you get everything taken care of to where the door fits "perfectly" without the dovetails then, believe it or not, Ford had three dovetails... on with the wedge centered, one with the wedge offset up, and one with the wedge offset down. If Kube steps in with his two bits of information consider it very carefully, its worth more than that.

03-22-2024, 09:25 AM	#4
Zeke3 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Columbus, IN Posts: 1,407	Re: '37 Body mounts / Door alignment Check the door structure where the lower hinge attaches for signs of fatigue, cracks in the metal. Pick up on the back of the door and check the lower hinge area for movement.

03-23-2024, 08:10 PM	#5
Road Trip Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: North Carolina Posts: 153	Re: '37 Body mounts / Door alignment Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks to all that replied thus far. A bit of history on the car: I'm doing a bit of freshening up on an existing build due to some years of neglect. Rockers, quarters, etc. Car has been in the family since '77. It got street rodded and has been on / off the road since about '81. It still carries an I beam front, so no frame mods were done. I took possession of it in '19 after my uncle passed away. I grew up in and around the car, so I have a lot if first-hand knowledge of it (and a lot of memories). The body was never off the frame prior to '77, if ever. She was never hit or had any major modifications (chopped, etc). The doors both have had some sag to them, most likely due to age. I could lift up slightly on the pass. door and make it hit the center of the dovetail with little effort. After the body mounts, it's not even close. Drivers door is currently off the car, so I really can't check that one yet.