Leakless water pump

[skeazle]

I was just wondering how to tell if I have a leakless water pump or the older type? It is on a 1930 Tudor Sedan and the car was restored in '09. It has 2 grease fittings on it but are they dummie ones? I want to change my fan blade before it flies off and one of the guys in the club said mine has the studs screwed in but it looks like the original way so I shouldn't have to move the radiator to change the fan. One more question.... Should you jack up the car to lube it or doesn't it matter? thanks, Jim

[Gary WA]

If fake grease fittings its leakless. some grease some don't. Do not have to jack up to grease.All Leakless pumps are not created equal!!

[skeazle]

Thanks Gary

[Glenn C.]

Did he not mean whether he should jack up the car to do a complete lube job on the vehicle ? Or am I just missing something here.

[Marshall V. Daut]

I am not aware of any "dummy" grease fittings being manufactured just for leakless water pump applications. That would be very expensive for a somewhat limited market. The leakless pumps I have purchased over the years have functioning grease fittings: the two-piece brass affair/cover in the back and a normal scr*w-in cadmium-plated cone fitting in front. If "dummy" fittings ARE being made, well, then shut my mouth!
If you attempt to pump in grease in either of these fittings and you meet immediate resistance, then that location has a sealed bushing or bearing in place, which won't allow grease to enter. I'd say try to grease each fitting and see what happens. But use care so that you don't accidentally blow out any rubber lip seal on the water pump packing nut. Not all leakless pumps have this feature. 'Dunno if that type of design relies solely on this lip or whether there is a sealed bushing/bearing in place, too. Lots of different ideas out there about what the best way to build a "leakless" water pump requires. The feel of your grease gun in action should tell you whether grease is being accepted or not. Too much resistance = don't force any more grease into the fitting.
Marshall

[skeazle]

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Marshall, Mine does have just what you said. The 2 grease fittings one brass with a cap and the other cadmium cone. I was told that they no longer need greased but they put the 2 fittings on there for show points I guess. Jim

[coupe1942]

I started to ask this same question when I just got my new to me '30 pickup. The owner had said it had a leakless water pump and I had not dealt with such on my past Model A's. I had to admit that I really didn't know how one could instantly tell if a water pump is leakless or not, other than to see no water dripping beneath it. :-)

Come to find out, he had a leakless one laying under the front seat and probably was not the one on the vehicle. I'll have to check into it, but he too gave the same misinformation as to the grease seal being fake on them. Makes me wonder just what is on my truck, but I need to do the grease job on it anyway, so I'll find out.

The water pump on the truck needs a repack, but it is really too hot and humid here to take on that task at the moment.

[Marshall V. Daut]

Ah, but there's the rub! Not all leakless water pumps are created equal. Some have sealed bearings in both the main body (behind the packing adjusting nut) and the nose, while others have a bearing just in pump body. As the varied makers of these pumps don't put any markings indicating which pump is which, one cannot tell by looking at the mounted pump.
So, my advice still goes: try pumping grease into each fitting and test for resistance. If you are able to pump grease until you see it ooze out of the front nose, then that pump only has a rear sealed bearing and the original needle bearing in the nose, which does require periodic greasing. If resistance is felt while trying to grease the front zerk, then there is a sealed bearing inside.
No matter which design pump you have, a true "leakless" pump will for sure have a sealed bearing in the pump body. So, you know you won't have to be concerned with greasing there. It's the nose that may or may not require greasing. You've got a 50/50 chance either way.
Marshall

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

Ah, but there's the rub! Not all leakless water pumps are created equal. Some have sealed bearings in both the main body (behind the packing adjusting nut) and the nose, while others have a bearing just in pump body. As the varied makers of these pumps don't put any markings indicating which pump is which, one cannot tell by looking at the mounted pump.
So, my advice still goes: try pumping grease into each fitting and test for resistance. If you are able to pump grease until you see it ooze out of the front nose, then that pump only has a rear sealed bearing and the original needle bearing in the nose, which does require periodic greasing. If resistance is felt while trying to grease the front zerk, then there is a sealed bearing inside.
No matter which design pump you have, a true "leakless" pump will for sure have a sealed bearing in the pump body. So, you know you won't have to be concerned with greasing there. It's the nose that may or may not require greasing. You've got a 50/50 chance either way.
Marshall

Glad I read through all the posts before answering. Yup there are leakless that will take grease and some that won't.

[Cornishman]

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

I am not aware of any "dummy" grease fittings being manufactured just for leakless water pump applications. That would be very expensive for a somewhat limited market. The leakless pumps I have purchased over the years have functioning grease fittings: the two-piece brass affair/cover in the back and a normal scr*w-in cadmium-plated cone fitting in front. If "dummy" fittings ARE being made, well, then shut my mouth!
If you attempt to pump in grease in either of these fittings and you meet immediate resistance, then that location has a sealed bushing or bearing in place, which won't allow grease to enter. I'd say try to grease each fitting and see what happens. But use care so that you don't accidentally blow out any rubber lip seal on the water pump packing nut. Not all leakless pumps have this feature. 'Dunno if that type of design relies solely on this lip or whether there is a sealed bushing/bearing in place, too. Lots of different ideas out there about what the best way to build a "leakless" water pump requires. The feel of your grease gun in action should tell you whether grease is being accepted or not. Too much resistance = don't force any more grease into the fitting.
Marshall

I have a leakless waterpump. The rear bearing does require greasing, the front does not. The front bearing DOES have a 'dummy' grease nipple, limited market or not they do exist.

[Dollar Bill]

I believe Marshall's point is that all of the grease fittings (leakless or not) are the same. On the leakless pumps with sealed bearings, the passage between and bearing isn't drilled.

[Cornishman]

And my point is that they are not. The forward grease fitting is fake, if I swapped them over it would not work.

[Tacoma Bob]

FWIW. I purchased a Jim Ruppert extreme duty pump. he makes a terrific water pump. The one I took off was also leakless WITH dummy grease fittings. I bought it years ago from a Portland OR vendor.

[Marshall V. Daut]

So, dummy grease fittings DO exist after all? I stand corrected. 'Never have seen any. I can understand the reason for them, though, but I don't see the cost effectiveness of manufacturing dummy grease fittings just for Model A water pump application. All one would have to do to make an existing functioning fitting non-functioning is to plug the underside so that grease cannot be pumped through. But to re-tool so that a dummy cone fitting and the much more complicated brass fitting can be made from scratch seems to me to be an expensive extra step.
So, are these dummy fittings solid stock inside the threaded shank of each fitting? This area would normally be hollow for the grease to pass through. A close-up photo of one of these animals would be instructive.
Marshall,
owner only of real grease fittings

[Terry, NJ]

I agree the fittings are real but they're screwed into blind holes. But if it not leaking, treat it as though it "Leakless" until it leaks. (If it ain't broke, don't fix it) The bolts are a replacement type that look like studs, but actually the "stud" comes out of the head when you unscrew the nut.
Terry

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Tacoma Bob

FWIW. I purchased a Jim Ruppert extreme duty pump. he makes a terrific water pump. ...

I would second that motion!

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by CarlG

I would second that motion!

3rd

[Tacoma Bob]

Marshall, I will check around my shop and see if I still have the dummies and post a pic.

[Marshall V. Daut]

Thanks, Bob.
M.

[d.]

I have several dummies around my shop...oh wait!, we're talking about water pump grease fittings, never mind.