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10-22-2018, 07:05 PM | #1 |
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Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
I am considering taking the plunge and doing my own re-build of my early 1947, 226 C.I. "G" model SIX cylinder motor. I know many questions will come up through this. My first questions are:
1. Harbor Freight (I know, china crap) has a folding version motor stand with a 2K capacity.. Would this be best or are there some tricks to bolting up flywheels/clutch assemblies & having the flexibility to invert the motor for oil pan, etc. or any other manufacturer suggestions? 2. I have started collecting the rarer parts (water pump, distributor, etc.) but what about the starter? I read somewhere I need one with less teeth because a SIX cylinder flywheel is different than a V8s.? A post on FORD SIX PERFORMANCE read: the drive gear must have 9 teeth to correctly mesh with the 6 cylinder 114 tooth ring gear. Whereas the V8 has the 10 tooth v8 drive gear which meshes with the 112 tooth v8 ring gear. The v8 ring gear will not fit on the 6 cylinder flywheel. Even if I have a shop rebuild my motor, I am considering doing a rebuild on another "donor" motor to get the experience. "I guess I am old enough for the experience & too young to know better" Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me..
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WALT "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm". "Old enough for the experience & too young to know better" Last edited by Vintage Copper 47; 10-24-2018 at 02:20 PM. |
10-22-2018, 09:52 PM | #2 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
Walt, I have built 6 or 7 engines in my home shop. All Flathead V8s, and the process was never without a certain amount of apprehension. I Have had minimal machine work done and have measured a lot of assemblies very carefully. I have the Ford Motor Company 'repair manual' for the '37-'48 V8 engines and follow the procedures religiously. The forward in this manual states
"This is a Repair Manual rather than a Reconditioner's Manual, and some acceptable repair practices would not be acceptable reconditioning practices, In this book the word "repair"is used to indicate "restore to good working condition" and not to a "like new condition". That condition is good enough for me and how I use and drive my trucks. We have a couple of things not available to folks working on their ford engines back then. In order of importance to me: The internet (vast knowledge of fordbarn members) Plastigage Ball hones adjustable lifters Excellent modern oils I highly recommend the adventure! Oh and you are correct on the ring gears and starter gears. The ring gears for the six are extremely hard to find, but Al Suehring in Upstate NY sells just ring gears. He recently did a run of six cyl ring gears and I bought one. He's on the 'net.
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) Last edited by GB SISSON; 10-22-2018 at 09:58 PM. |
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10-23-2018, 01:22 AM | #3 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
Starter base is the same just the bendix that is different.
Distributor body is the same to just the breakerplate and missing a couple of cylinders on the cam...so many parts interchange if you break them apart. You didnīt consider rebuilding a H core ? Full rebuild kit for an H is still available and around $1200. |
10-23-2018, 04:11 AM | #4 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
I recently completed the rebuild of a 59AB V8. While clearly not the same engine, my level of inexperience likely matches yours. A couple of takeaways :
It can be done! GB's comments are spot on. A couple of references that helped immensely for basic process info: Rebuilding the Famous Ford Flathead by our very own Ron Bishop Ford Flathead Engines - How to Rebuild and Modify by Thacker & Herman The HF lift is very serviceable. A lift plate and leveler are suggested. A sturdy table to hold the block during the disassembly /reassembly. I slapped something together that mostly worked. My space was limited and my profound ignorance kept me away from an engine stand due to fear of damaging the funky bell housing on the 59AB. Turning the engine was an issue for me. I solved it with brute force and a mildly alarming disregard for personal safety. You may want a more sensible solution. The machine shop installed the adjustable valves for me. This greatly simplified my tasks. May be a path for you also. If you don't have the shop install the crank, have them clean the yokes. Since I now know about the need for super clean parts for assembly, this may avoid one of my redos. Having access to the brain of a more experienced mechanic was critical. Just being schooled on basic shop practice for cleanliness, measurement rigor, and process mattered. Plan on spoiling at least one rope seal and getting the assembly order wrong at least twice. Two words: Assembly Lube. 'Nuff said. Enjoy the journey.
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19 and 49 F1 - jes' like Henry II built 1946 Deluxe - as Henry built it Last edited by FortyNiner; 10-23-2018 at 04:24 AM. |
10-23-2018, 12:09 PM | #5 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
The rear clutch housing is removable on the G series 6-cylinder but can be left in place if you want to use a turn over stand. The turn over stand make life easier during reassembly but it is not necessary for cleaning or machine work and that may necessitate removal of the rear housing.
Pistons, bearings, oil pump, and possibly other items are getting harder to source but persistence pays. Check with the NOS parts guys as soon as you have an idea about what you will need. Southside Obsolete (barnfind08 here on the barn), has a lot of hard to find stuff. |
10-23-2018, 12:20 PM | #6 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
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Last edited by amodel25; 11-26-2018 at 01:32 PM. |
10-23-2018, 07:11 PM | #7 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
Thanks for all the advice.. I am going to rebuild the "G" model and temporarily put in the H because of the problems I have heard the H has with loadamatic distributor.. I also have all the "core" parts needed (water pump, distributor, intake/exhaust..) By the way, my current motor is still running and still in my 47...just doing all the research/prep/parts gathering in advance.. My current motor has a rod knock & some piston slap (broken rings?) & with needing a new oilpan gasket, I figure if I have to pull the motor to fix oilpan, I might as well do the rebuild.. Which brings me to question no. 3
Question 3 the reason I have to pull the motor to change the oilpan gasket is primarily because the crossmember is in the way (riveted to the frame).. After I pull the motor, is it recommended that I take out the rivets & bolt in the crossmember, making it easier for future oilpan gasket replacement? Like I said before "I guess I am old enough for the experience & too young to know better" Thanks again, WALT
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WALT "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm". "Old enough for the experience & too young to know better" Last edited by Vintage Copper 47; 12-17-2018 at 06:46 PM. |
10-23-2018, 09:23 PM | #8 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
Bolts are good in so many ways. Rivets were probably fast and cheap on the assembly line. Not to say they don't hold like a sonofagun. I don't think I've ever seen one getting loose.
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) |
10-24-2018, 12:27 PM | #9 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
Rivets were and still are best long term way to hold a frame like that together. The rivet fills the hole tightly during the setting process. Bolts fit loose enough to push them through by hand. A tight fastener will stay that way longer. Once it gets loose, the quicker it gets even more loose. These old frames move around in twist and bend more than most folks realize. A loose fastener will make an elongated bolt or rivet hole pretty quick in rough conditions.
In aviation, many bolt holes are machined to close tolerance and a close tolerance bolt or pin fastener is installed. When they get loose, some have to be reamed for the next size or next oversize if one is available. It's either that or replace the whole assembly. |
10-24-2018, 02:26 PM | #10 | |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
Quote:
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WALT "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm". "Old enough for the experience & too young to know better" |
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10-24-2018, 07:55 PM | #11 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
For us, on good roads (well, most of you guys) we won't torture these things like in the past. A few bolts swapped in won't change things much, but seriously a rivet swelled up in the hole is still a tough customer to deal with. I just changed out 4 running board braces, 16 rivets last weekend. Rotorwrench knows what he's talking about.
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) |
11-21-2018, 08:47 PM | #12 | |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
Quote:
I realize that the motor from the truck MIGHT have a large diameter clutch? possibly a 10" inch clutch compared to a "9" inch clutch on the sedan.. That being said, if true, can I swap the clutch & flywheel from the other motor to the H model?.. ANY & ALL advice you can give me would be great! WALT
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WALT "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm". "Old enough for the experience & too young to know better" |
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11-22-2018, 11:31 AM | #13 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
An F4 would have an 11" clutch.
Bob |
11-22-2018, 02:05 PM | #14 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
Flywheel could be redrilled to accept your 9" if itīs in good shape.
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11-23-2018, 09:05 PM | #15 | |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
Quote:
What say experts?
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WALT "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm". "Old enough for the experience & too young to know better" |
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11-26-2018, 01:23 PM | #16 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
I'm no expert, but when I installed the H into my 41 I had the flywheel from the existing V8. It fit just fine. I used the starter from the V8 also. So far I haven't had any problems with it in the past year or so of driving it.
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11-26-2018, 03:49 PM | #17 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
I will count the teeth on the ring gear of the 48 "H" model.. if it is same as my "G".. then I will just redrill the flywheel to accept the smaller clutch!
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WALT "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm". "Old enough for the experience & too young to know better" |
12-02-2018, 04:36 PM | #18 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
So... I was thinking.. I have the entire clutch cover & starter to the "H" model SIX that I just picked up in Arizona. Will the bolt pattern for the cover match the bolt pattern to my sedan transmission? If so, could I just leave the 11" inch clutch/flywheel combo with attached starter on the "H" motor & hook it up with my 47 transmission? Are the splines different number or longer with the truck transmission? I have the entire motor intact with the trans, I was hoping I could bolt the whole thing in.. What say you Fordbarners?
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WALT "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm". "Old enough for the experience & too young to know better" |
12-02-2018, 05:05 PM | #19 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
It will bolt togetter.
An 11" clutch may be a bit tough compared to what youīre used to...but will pull any camper you can hook up to the -47 just fine |
12-02-2018, 07:21 PM | #20 |
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Re: Self/repair & rebuilding my "G" model flathead SIX
It depends on you liking the feel of the 11 inch and your concerns about performance. The 11 inch will feel like a heavy truck clutch, and the performance will be in that range as well. If you are happy with that, then ok, if not redrill it for a 10 inch or 9 inch.
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