Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-06-2021, 08:40 AM   #1
Ed in Maine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Washington Cty., ME or Flagler Cty., FL
Posts: 1,106
Default Starting the Model A with a crank

I have never done this with my Model A. I do own a 1914 Model T that must be hand cranked but I make sure that the timing is past TDC at the moment of spark. Starting my Model T is easy and a safe experience.

Can anyone comment on the Model A after it is timed by the book how the crank feels with spark fully retarded. Does the normal timing adjustment get the spark past TDC so that there is no sudden engine bucking or worse?

If you know you would like to occasionally use the crank, to be super safe, is there any benefit to time the car with the spark level down 1 or 2 clicks so that you are absolutely positive you are past TDC with the spark lever fully up? Ed
Ed in Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 09:13 AM   #2
Will N
Senior Member
 
Will N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,096
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

I've had to start my A twice with the crank: once due to a broken bendix, the next because of a weak battery. The timing was set per the book- spark occurs right at TDC when fully retarded. Both times it fired off on one upward pull of the crank with no kick back.
Will N is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 06-06-2021, 09:45 AM   #3
700rpm
Senior Member
 
700rpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,892
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

Ed, don’t wrap your thumb around the crank, and pull it out after the first pull. You might also want to run an wire forward from your carb if you want to choke it. That’s what the hole in your choke arm is for. You probably already know this from cranking your T.
__________________
Ray Horton, Portland, OR


As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.
700rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 09:55 AM   #4
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 5,011
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed in Maine View Post
If you know you would like to occasionally use the crank, to be super safe, is there any benefit to time the car with the spark level down 1 or 2 clicks so that you are absolutely positive you are past TDC with the spark lever fully up? Ed
The only possible benefit is it may make one feel better.
__________________
If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!.
Got my education out behind the barn!
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 10:05 AM   #5
Big hammer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Land of Lincoln
Posts: 3,114
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

Many years ago I hand started my A with a loose motor and the timing spot on. Today with a fresh motor and HC head I wouldn't try it, I would fix my issues with the electric starter ! Back when I was in high school my A wouldn't start asked for help to push start it, the 2-3 guys got it started within 3 feet of pushing, they thought they would have to push me for blocks !
__________________
Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap
get a bigger hammer tap done
Big hammer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 11:04 AM   #6
Bob Bidonde
Senior Member
 
Bob Bidonde's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 3,432
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Here is some advice about hand-crank starting a Model "A" / "AA":

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Choking For Hand Crank Start 115kb.jpg (40.5 KB, 150 views)
File Type: jpg Hand Cranking The Engine.jpg (49.7 KB, 152 views)
__________________
Bob Bidonde
Bob Bidonde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 11:24 AM   #7
nkaminar
Senior Member
 
nkaminar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 3,820
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

You don't have to pull quickly, just pull past TDC and it should start. I have seen people crank a Model T using their foot by pushing down. Not sure I would do that for fear of being launched.
__________________
A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
nkaminar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 11:34 AM   #8
J Franklin
Senior Member
 
J Franklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,947
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkaminar View Post
You don't have to pull quickly, just pull past TDC and it should start. I have seen people crank a Model T using their foot by pushing down. Not sure I would do that for fear of being launched.
I knew a guy with a Royal Enfield motorcycle that got launched a few times pushing down on the starter pedal!
J Franklin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 12:45 PM   #9
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Largo Florida
Posts: 7,225
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

I shattered a wrist cranking a Farmal when I was 12 and got almost launched a couple times kicking a motorbike with manual advance.

Engines don't like to kick back if the base timing is set ATDC or/to slightly before TDC.

As mentioned, keep that thumb out of the way.

Right now the humidity is up and the barometer is on the move, the wrist hurts.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 01:13 PM   #10
McMimmcs
Senior Member
 
McMimmcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Fort Gratiot, Michigan
Posts: 2,296
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

There is a you tube near this post. Please do not use the crank to start in that manner.
McMimmcs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 01:36 PM   #11
ursus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,369
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

Meanwhile, the 1932-34 Model B engine with an initial timing set at 19 degrees BTDC came with a hand crank and instructions for using it to start the engine. I have been told by others that they were able to crank start the B-engine without kickback.
ursus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 05:06 PM   #12
d.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 510
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

I hand cranked my Model A for 2 years in the 1960's when I was in high school...no money for a rebuilt starter.
It fired off every time, usually on the first pull, rain or shine.
Biggest tip is keeping your thumb on the same side as your fingers...do not wrap it around the crank handle.
Sometimes a curious few would ask me what I was doing and were just amazed that I could start the car that way. worked for me.
d. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 05:34 PM   #13
Jim Brierley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 4,066
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

re; Big Hammer's story on push starting. In Jr. college I built a 3/8x3/8 flathead V8. I borrowed a friends A roadster on '32 rails and put my engine in it. It would never start by the starter, battery or starter problems? Who knows. So I had to push start it at all times. Being 6'2" tall, I couldn't get in the car quick enough while pushing it myself to get it started, but found that by pumping the throttle once, turning on the ignition switch ( house wall-switch ) pushing it a few feet, reaching in and jamming it into high gear and then right back to neutral, it was running! Worked every time!
Jim Brierley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 06:14 PM   #14
dave hummell
Member
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: northeast pa.
Posts: 30
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

I used to do repairs to a hand crank 2 ton caterpillar and some of the larger ones started with a hand crank. I have started my car with the hand crank after retarding the timing. I owned a 63 sporster with a joe hunt mag I run that for about 9 years you had to commit to the kick lever. I had a 93 inch kick start shovelhead that was fun to kick. The worse ones were 441 bsa victors you had to know how to start them or look out they would throw your foot of the kicker. I had a 850 norton commando and you had to address that kicker just right.
dave hummell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2021, 06:57 PM   #15
Dale G.
Senior Member
 
Dale G.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 292
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

Numerous times when the engine is warm, I have turned the pop-out on and it starts by itself without using the starter. How is that for top dead center??
Dale G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 10:30 AM   #16
Ed in Maine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Washington Cty., ME or Flagler Cty., FL
Posts: 1,106
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

Dale G., Model T owners call that a "free start"! Ed
Ed in Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 05:27 PM   #17
psimet
Senior Member
 
psimet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 159
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

My uncle (whom I got my A from) used to restore antique tractors. He finished a large Case that required hand cranking. Just watching him do that was always so impressive.
psimet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 06:36 PM   #18
nkaminar
Senior Member
 
nkaminar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 3,820
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

I watched my friend hand crank his two cylinder John Deere by turning the flywheel. There are two petcocks about an inch from TDC that relieve the pressure. So the compression is reduced to only the last inch of the compression stroke. The petcocks are not large enough to significantly reduce the power stroke or the next compression stroke when the engine starts. After it started he closed the petcocks.
__________________
A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
nkaminar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2021, 09:07 PM   #19
vern hodgson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: langley, wa.
Posts: 642
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde View Post
Here is some advice about hand-crank starting a Model "A" / "AA":

Ez trick is to attach a piece of wire to the choke arm, on the carb, if so equipped and thread it out thru the radiator, form a finger loop in it. Then you can choke it and crank it without moving from the front. Makes a good conversation piece for curious onlookers.
vern hodgson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2021, 01:29 AM   #20
ETAModel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Along the Red River, Texas
Posts: 360
Default Re: Starting the Model A with a crank

We had a '41 John Deere Model A in the 80's, it didn't have a battery or starter motor. The only way to start it was that big aZZ flywheel. If it was hot and using gas or drip it was no trouble. If you were running kero or diesel you had to crank like hell as soon as it died, or drain the carb. But it sure beat using a pair of mules.
ETAModel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32 PM.