rust in water

[daveymc29]

I have always had pretty good luck with the water being clear of rust in my cars. I use a bit of soluble oil in them with distilled water as my choice of coolants here in sunny CA at sea level + 384 feet. Then recently I had occasion to examine the radiator water on the roadster and found it low so I added a bit and went for a drive. When I got up to freeway speed, around 55, I noticed an orange froth just below my moto-meter. Got home and checked, never saw it rusty like that. What could have made the engine rust up that fast? I drained it all and filled with vinegar and will drive it a few weeks than flush and do a soda treatment or two before filling for good. Should I be using a coolant instead of water? Been driving this car since 93 with no real rust problems before. (But then that's what the guy aid when his horse died, "Never did that before.")

[DaWizard]

What I would do if there was a sudden influx of rust?

I would pull the radiator, turn it upside down and flush as much water through it as I could get. then pull the water pump, check the impeller, and scope down the water jacket in the head and see if you can find where it came from. It takes time for rust to be made, and it takes time for it to break loose. and if you have been running rust inhibitors there should not have been any rust.

Something inside your coolant area has changed, I would try to find out what.

My 2¢

[Tom Wesenberg]

Lots of people used to use plain water, which created lots of rust, which likes to settle in the lowest place in the block, which is around the rear two cylinders. When you drive at high speed the added speed of the coolant flow will churn up the rust that settled in the rear of the block. The same thing happened to me when I drove faster than 45 for a 60 miles run on the highway.

I wound up removing the radiator, turning it upside down in a large tub of water, and connecting a sump pump to the radiator to back flush it. I then connected the sump pump to the block to flush that out also. With the pump running I also started the engine and revved it up to create some vibration to help dislodge any junk in the cooling chamber.

Here's a link to my thread on the subject, and it has pictures of the sump pump.

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ump+pump+flush

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Davey,

1. For the past twenty (20) years, thousands of Model A radiator rust problems, overheating problems, and cooling problems were mentioned on Model A Forums.

2. Ever notice later model vehicle radiators provided and maintained with car manufacturer's recommended Antifreeze do not have anywhere near all of these problems.

3. After over fifty-eight (58) years of experience with 50/50 Antifreeze mixed with either rain water or distilled water in all my vehicles, with no problems, I am not in the mood to try other coolant recommendations.

4. In my opinion, we will always continue to be hear about coolant problems on Model A Forums for the most obvious reasons.

[ian Simpson]

I have said it before, and will say many times more, good anti-freeze does much more than stop freezing. It has anti-corrosion properties that work with both iron and aluminum blocks. It is a very inexpensive insurance against blocked cooling passages and other expensive problems.

Distilled water, soluble oils, and other magic potions do not come close.

[C26Pinelake]

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You should be useing 50/50 antifreeze. As you can see money not spent is not money saved. Being frugile ( cheap ) actually cost you money. Wayne

[robgross1930]

Originally Posted by daveymc29

I have always had pretty good luck with the water being clear of rust in my cars. I use a bit of soluble oil in them with distilled water as my choice of coolants here in sunny CA at sea level + 384 feet. Then recently I had occasion to examine the radiator water on the roadster and found it low so I added a bit and went for a drive. When I got up to freeway speed, around 55, I noticed an orange froth just below my moto-meter. Got home and checked, never saw it rusty like that. What could have made the engine rust up that fast? I drained it all and filled with vinegar and will drive it a few weeks than flush and do a soda treatment or two before filling for good. Should I be using a coolant instead of water? Been driving this car since 93 with no real rust problems before. (But then that's what the guy aid when his horse died, "Never did that before.")

"Should I be using a coolant instead of water?"

Where you drive, in my opinion, no.

Your engine would not run rust free for 23 YEARS and suddenly form rust out of the blue without good reason. Mr. Wesenberg explained it exactly. Rust had formed and settled in the back years ago when people were running straight water in your engine and it finally broke loose. Rust will not form in a proper ratio mix of soluble oil and water. In your case the rust was already there and mixed in when it came loose.

On the other hand, an oil/water mixture that is too weak can form rust just as a weak mixture of antifreeze to water can form rust. Seen it all my life.

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by robgross1930

"Should I be using a coolant instead of water?"

Where you drive, in my opinion, no.

Your engine would not run rust free for 23 YEARS and suddenly form rust out of the blue without good reason. Mr. Wesenberg explained it exactly. Rust had formed and settled in the back years ago when people were running straight water in your engine and it finally broke loose. Rust will not form in a proper ratio mix of soluble oil and water. In your case the rust was already there and mixed in when it came loose.

On the other hand, an oil/water mixture that is too weak can form rust just as a weak mixture of antifreeze to water can form rust. Seen it all my life.

I take exception to your second last sentence. What proof do you have to support this allegation? I believe it is merely a suggestion used to support the decision for not spending money. Wayne

[Cornishman]

Rust is not caused by water, it is caused by oxygen and warmth. Any part of the iron internals will rust if it is exposed to air. Iron and steel submerged underwater will oxidise but more slowly than those exposed to the atmosphere. It is quite likely that rust has formed where there has been an air space in the engine. Antifreeze and other inhibitors prevent the oxidisation caused by water.
For my information: What is soluble oil? It's not something I've heard of before reading this thread.

[pooch]

The titanic is still there and it has no coolant.

[jm29henry]

They make water pump lube with rust inhibitor that you can add to your radaitor when you use water it works well

[zzlegend]

I live in California and run a mix of 50/50 coolant or anti freeze in all 9 of my cars. I hate rust in radiators. Just my 3 1/2 cents.

[Tom F OHIO]

Can you use the water wetter that the suppliers sell? Will that lube it?

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by zzlegend

I live in California and run a mix of 50/50 coolant or anti freeze in all 9 of my cars. I hate rust in radiators. Just my 3 1/2 cents.

Makes good sense! Wayne

[H. L. Chauvin]

Reply No 8 has great merit.

The insides of many Model A radiators look "exactly" like the Titanic ..... no 50/50 Antifreeze and all corroded with barnacles fed by the earth's minerals.

Plus, the Titanic Captain never had a Ship Forum like a Model A Forum ..... as such, he had never been informed and warned about his observing only the tip of the iceberg.

[zzlegend]

I didn't know the Titanic had a radiator. Go figure. Must have been a Huge sucker.
Better get back to my history books.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I think I'll just use salt water in my Model A. It's cheaper than antifreeze.

[daveymc29]

I have a friend that has been down to the Titanic, it is rusty. He had to get a Russian ship to do the dive from as no American one would. Some silly law we have. I'll pass in the salt water in the radiator. I also should have mentioned that the engine was boiled out before rebuilding last year, according to the guys that did the machining. Maybe not so good?

[robgross1930]

Originally Posted by Cornishman

Rust is not caused by water, it is caused by oxygen and warmth. Any part of the iron internals will rust if it is exposed to air. Iron and steel submerged underwater will oxidise but more slowly than those exposed to the atmosphere. It is quite likely that rust has formed where there has been an air space in the engine. Antifreeze and other inhibitors prevent the oxidisation caused by water.
For my information: What is soluble oil? It's not something I've heard of before reading this thread.

Corn, I think I can help you. Have you ever heard of H2O? It’s the chemical formula for water. Have any idea what the O stands for? Think maybe the O stands for oxygen? I do.

Have any idea what the word you used, “oxidize,” means? It means combine with oxygen. You said, “Iron and steel submerged underwater will oxidise but more slowly than those exposed to the atmosphere” Since oxidize mean combine with oxygen, where did the oxygen come from in the water?? Think maybe there’s oxygen in that water???

So, by your own admission you think any part of the iron internals will rust if it is exposed to air but not water? Not sure if the people in Arizona or the Sahara Desert would agree with you. There’s plenty of air but what’s missing there, one might wonder?? Well there ain’t no water .. or very little of it; bone dry as they say!

Here’s how it works:

Specifically, when WATER comes in contact with iron, a galvanic cell is created kind of like a little battery. When H2O .. also known as WATER!! .. comes into contact with iron, the WATER will dissociate (break into its individual elements, hydrogen and oxygen) and then you have free O2 .. oxygen.. running around, which will bond with the iron to create FeO2, also known as iron oxide, commonly called RUST … which is what you see when the radiator cap is removed on a Model A run on straight WATER.

For your homework tonight, look up the word, “soluble.” Then consider the notion that oil and water do not mix. Next, ponder the meaning of soluble and you will instantly understand what soluble oil is.

[Y-Blockhead]

I think this thread is corroding rapidly.