The Ford Barn

Woodie UK · 03-16-2020, 08:05 PM

Just replaced the starter on 56 Crown Vic 312 because the old one just kept whirring and not engaging.

Installed a brand new one today and, you guessed it, it's just whirring too.

I don't think its the starter ring gear and possible the solenoid. Is there a way to bi-pass the solenoid just to see if that is the problem?

dmsfrr · 03-16-2020, 09:23 PM

Is this the solenoid you're asking about? first photo below

It's only a switch. It sends power to the starter when it receives trigger power from the Ign key switch on its "S" terminal. If you have another one you can exchange them. If the starter motor is energized when turning the key to the Start position the solenoid is most likely working.
Make sure all six ends of the large battery & starter cables are clean and tight. Poor connections will reduce available power to the starter.

You can bypass the solenoid by connecting one red clamp of a set of jumper cables to the large solenoid terminal for the starter, and touching the other red clamp to the other large terminal on the solenoid that the "+" battery cable is fastened to.
There can/will be large sparks and the threads on the solenoid stud terminals may be damaged.
Double check that the transmission is not in gear and the ignition switch is in the Off position.

You can bypass the starter cable by connecting one red clamp of the set of jumper cables to the large starter motor power terminal, and connecting the other red clamp to the large terminal on the solenoid that the starter cable is fastened to. Turn the ignition key to try the starter.

If the starter works better when either the large cable or the solenoid are bypassed that item may need to be cleaned or replaced.

The problem is more likely related to the spring-loaded starter drive gear mechanism. It is supposed to engage the flywheel ring gear when it is spun by the starter motor. 2nd photo

Dobie Gillis · 03-16-2020, 09:25 PM

Clamp 1 end of a jumper cable to the post on the starter where the wire from the solenoid connects. Touch (do not clamp) the other end of the jumper cable to the positive battery post.

Ole Don · 03-19-2020, 10:15 AM

Something to think about; a few short years ago, I took a starter in to an independent repair station who specialized in Generators starters and alternators. He ordered a new spring for the drive. The one that came was wound the wrong way for a car or truck. It was made for a wrong turning marine engine. Just keep in mind those parts are out there in the system somewhere.

58Yeoman · 03-19-2020, 10:23 AM

Did you use the old starter drive. That would've been my first choice. If the starter motor spins, the solenoid should be good. Not engaging is either the starter drive or a bad ring gear.

scicala · 03-19-2020, 10:26 AM

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If you transferred the old starter drive gear to the new starter, I would almost be 100% sure the starter drive is the issue. If the starter whirrs and spins when you turn the key, but doesn't turn the engine over, then the solenoid on the inner fender is doing it's job. Chances are your old starter motor is good also.

Sal

scicala · 03-19-2020, 10:28 AM

58Yeoman,

Sorry I repeated your post. We were both typing at the same time.

Sal

58Yeoman · 03-19-2020, 11:24 AM

No problem Sal...

bobss396 · 03-19-2020, 11:31 AM

If it sounds like it is kicking out of the flywheel, I'll agree on a bad starter drive. They are easy enough to change. I used to get them from Niehoff and Standard Ignition but that was a while ago. I like to buddy up to an auto-electric shop, likely you have one close by and he may have the right part to get it going again.

Chris S · 03-19-2020, 04:29 PM

On my '55 I had a similar problem with the whirring starter, it worked on the bench but I replaced it anyhow with a starter a friend had and still it wouldn't engage. It turned out that the ring gear had broken free and the starter wouldn't catch.
Might be worth checking the ring gear!
Chris

Daves55Sedan · 03-19-2020, 06:02 PM

If the starter drive gets dirty, it can become stuck and not engage with the ring gear when the starter motor begins to spin.
This can sometimes be corrected by dowsing the starter drive in a coffee-can full of kerosene and sloshing it around. It is not recommended to put any oil on the starter drive.
If you are having troubles with dirty starter drives, you should replace all the missing pieces off your transmission that are designed to keep dirt and crud out, such as the cap that goes on the back of bellhousing behind starter drive, or the bottom, half-moon shaped pan that goes on bottom of transmission.
Ford-O-Matics have a somewhat flat, half-moon shaped piece that bolts to the bottom front of the bellhousing (right in front of the converter/ring gear plate).
I would never drive a car with those parts missing, as flying rocks could get lodged between bellhousing and ring-gear resulting in damage to ring-gear at very minimum, as well as ensuring that your starter drive will eventually get cruddy.

03-16-2020, 08:05 PM	#1
Woodie UK Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cape Coral, Florida Posts: 91	starter problems Just replaced the starter on 56 Crown Vic 312 because the old one just kept whirring and not engaging. Installed a brand new one today and, you guessed it, it's just whirring too. I don't think its the starter ring gear and possible the solenoid. Is there a way to bi-pass the solenoid just to see if that is the problem?

03-16-2020, 09:25 PM	#3
Dobie Gillis Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Middle TN Posts: 1,060	Re: starter problems Clamp 1 end of a jumper cable to the post on the starter where the wire from the solenoid connects. Touch (do not clamp) the other end of the jumper cable to the positive battery post. __________________ Often wrong but never in doubt.

03-19-2020, 10:15 AM	#4
Ole Don Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St. Michael, Minnesota Posts: 1,713	Re: starter problems Something to think about; a few short years ago, I took a starter in to an independent repair station who specialized in Generators starters and alternators. He ordered a new spring for the drive. The one that came was wound the wrong way for a car or truck. It was made for a wrong turning marine engine. Just keep in mind those parts are out there in the system somewhere.

03-19-2020, 10:23 AM	#5
58Yeoman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 187	Re: starter problems Did you use the old starter drive. That would've been my first choice. If the starter motor spins, the solenoid should be good. Not engaging is either the starter drive or a bad ring gear.

03-19-2020, 10:26 AM	#6
scicala Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Detroit suburb, MI Posts: 3,703	Re: starter problems Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) If you transferred the old starter drive gear to the new starter, I would almost be 100% sure the starter drive is the issue. If the starter whirrs and spins when you turn the key, but doesn't turn the engine over, then the solenoid on the inner fender is doing it's job. Chances are your old starter motor is good also. Sal

03-19-2020, 10:28 AM	#7
scicala Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Detroit suburb, MI Posts: 3,703	Re: starter problems 58Yeoman, Sorry I repeated your post. We were both typing at the same time. Sal

03-19-2020, 11:24 AM	#8
58Yeoman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 187	Re: starter problems No problem Sal...

03-19-2020, 11:31 AM	#9
bobss396 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 721	Re: starter problems If it sounds like it is kicking out of the flywheel, I'll agree on a bad starter drive. They are easy enough to change. I used to get them from Niehoff and Standard Ignition but that was a while ago. I like to buddy up to an auto-electric shop, likely you have one close by and he may have the right part to get it going again.

03-19-2020, 04:29 PM	#10
Chris S Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 12	Re: starter problems On my '55 I had a similar problem with the whirring starter, it worked on the bench but I replaced it anyhow with a starter a friend had and still it wouldn't engage. It turned out that the ring gear had broken free and the starter wouldn't catch. Might be worth checking the ring gear! Chris

03-19-2020, 06:02 PM	#11
Daves55Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Granite City, Illinois Posts: 3,008	Re: starter problems If the starter drive gets dirty, it can become stuck and not engage with the ring gear when the starter motor begins to spin. This can sometimes be corrected by dowsing the starter drive in a coffee-can full of kerosene and sloshing it around. It is not recommended to put any oil on the starter drive. If you are having troubles with dirty starter drives, you should replace all the missing pieces off your transmission that are designed to keep dirt and crud out, such as the cap that goes on the back of bellhousing behind starter drive, or the bottom, half-moon shaped pan that goes on bottom of transmission. Ford-O-Matics have a somewhat flat, half-moon shaped piece that bolts to the bottom front of the bellhousing (right in front of the converter/ring gear plate). I would never drive a car with those parts missing, as flying rocks could get lodged between bellhousing and ring-gear resulting in damage to ring-gear at very minimum, as well as ensuring that your starter drive will eventually get cruddy.