Rear Spring

[Dennis Pereira]

I removed The rear Spring On my 29 Standard Coupe project Today . This is not my favorite thing to do . And not suggesting anyone try this at home but its out and the only problem was the chain was to tight and made removing the tool harder . Home made shade tree tool the block of wood keeps the spring from moving downward and out of line . And the rear spring was just like the front new shackles and no grease anywhere .

[TinCup]

When you go back together I really like the Slip Plate graphite paint between the leaves. You can spray or paint it on. Napa stores sell it buy they may have to order it in for you.

[ursus]

It appears that a chain encircles your "shade tree tool" which may help contain it if something caused it to come loose under tension, say, if you used a hammer to tap out the shackle. That device scares the crap out of me because I was witness to one that popped loose, took flight, and embedded itself into a garage wall. Fortunately, it narrowly missed the head of the guy under the car, who was so speechless he forgot all of his four-letter words.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Friend, Jake (RIP) laborisly assembled his '34 Ford P.U. rear spring with a new center bolt, then discovered it didn't have enough threads to squeeze them together (+*^$%&*&$) Something to check, before you start screwing! (TIP# 171)
Bill W.

[fiftyv8]

I know it is slow and messy, but I like the leaf removal method.
Use the body weight of the car to reload the leaves.
I've saw a rear spring let go on a 36 Ford coupe and boy was there some energy released when that took off.
Again, more by just plain old good luck nobody was injured/killed.
That car had reversed eyes which made things more difficult for the guys taking it out.

My buddy always replaces the center bolt with a new one when doing this work.
When you realise how much load that take and they are only mild steel.
He uses a longer bolt with lots of thread and then cuts off the waste when everything is set.
He now also uses the leaf replacement method.

[Dennis Pereira]

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Originally Posted by ursus

It appears that a chain encircles your "shade tree tool" which may help contain it if something caused it to come loose under tension, say, if you used a hammer to tap out the shackle. That device scares the crap out of me because I was witness to one that popped loose, took flight, and embedded itself into a garage wall. Fortunately, it narrowly missed the head of the guy under the car, who was so speechless he forgot all of his four-letter words.

Once the pressure is off no hammering the shackles slide right out but don't use your fingers just in case vise grips or channel locks will save your fingers .

[kenparker]

Messing with the tension that is on these springs, especially the rear spring, is Daannggeerrous. Here is a tool I made to make taking the spring apart a lot easier and safer..... and for putting one back together. It is slow but takes most of the danger out of the process.

Made from four 14 inch long pieces of 1/2 in threaded rod eight flat washers and eight 1/2" nuts. What holds it together are two of the spacer that fit under rear springs. Very easy to build.

When I start assembling I use a 10"long piece of solid rod in place of a Center Bolt. That keeps the leaves aligned. When all is assembled and the eight nuts are tight, I tap out the solid 3/8" rod and tap in the 3/8" center bolt. Run the nut up tight and lock it down. Then release the eight nuts.

[wrndln]

Dennis,
I would be a little concerned using the repro shackles I see in the picture, especially for the very powerful rear spring. It appears it is the cast style, not forged like originals. Checkout Vince Falter's website: http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/brokenshackles.htm.
Rusty Nelson

[Dennis Pereira]

Originally Posted by wrndln

Dennis,
I would be a little concerned using the repro shackles I see in the picture, especially for the very powerful rear spring. It appears it is the cast style, not forged like originals. Checkout Vince Falter's website: http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/brokenshackles.htm.
Rusty Nelson

Thanks Rusty I was thinking about that and hoping they would hold until I had it apart .

[Tom Endy]

My advice in the following order:

1. Make sure your life insurance is paid up.

2. Find a deep lake somewhere and toss that poor excuse for a spring spreader in it.

3. Order a proper rear spring spreader from Bratton's or Snyder.

Tom Endy

[Dodge]

Scary

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

What is the safest grade of center bolt to use? OR, are they even marked? It's VERY apparent that this could be a DANGEROUS JOB! FORTUNATELY, I've not ever lost a finger & can still count. The Dog has counting problems, as he has only 4 toes on each foot & can only count to 16, plus the tail, of course!
Bill W.

[Dennis Pereira]

Originally Posted by Tom Endy

My advice in the following order:

1. Make sure your life insurance is paid up.

2. Find a deep lake somewhere and toss that poor excuse for a spring spreader in it.

3. Order a proper rear spring spreader from Bratton's or Snyder.

Tom Endy

That poor excuse for a spring has worked just fine on four model A springs and several jeeps . I would love a proper spreader but was hoping this was the last time it would be needed .

[Dennis Pereira]

Originally Posted by Dennis Pereira

That poor excuse for a spring has worked just fine on four model A springs and several jeeps . I would love a proper spreader but was hoping this was the last time it would be needed .

Ok I ordered spring spreaders from Bert's I will wait until they arrive to finish the spring project I have two more to remove no use tempting fate lol .

[Goldhardt]

Originally Posted by Dennis Pereira

Ok I ordered spring spreaders from Bert's I will wait until they arrive to finish the spring project I have two more to remove no use tempting fate lol .

Not only will it now be safer for you, but you also got a new tool for the shop!!!

[Tom Endy]

Originally Posted by Dennis Pereira

That poor excuse for a spring has worked just fine on four model A springs and several jeeps . I would love a proper spreader but was hoping this was the last time it would be needed .

My apologies for being so flippant with my response, I should have chosen my words better.

The point I was trying to make is that the type of spring spreader you were using is extremely dangerous. No matter how many chains are wrapped around the spring, or how many times you used it, if the pipe end of the spreader should slip off the banjo bolt head it will launch like a cross-bow.

Many people in the Model A hobby do not realize the danger posed by a rear spring under tension.

There are two areas of rear axle assembly removal that should be considered. The first is use of an improper spring spreader that can launch. The second is removing a rear axle assembly from a car with the spring still attached. Once it is unbolted from the frame, that is safely capturing the spring, and brought out from under the car, all that tension is then being held by only a 3\8" diameter center bolt. If the head should pop off the bolt the spring leaves will fly 20 feet in the air and take your head with it if you happen to be standing over it. Then you have to consider that they are all going to come back down.

Tom Endy

[Terry, NJ]

Go to my profile and enter the album"My A". Scan through my pics (they're badly out of order). In there, I show how my spring bent a piece of 3/4 -10 "ready rod" and sent that lil' bugger past my right leg about a zillion MPH. Since that was at disassembly, I had to go through it again to get it back together. Spronnggg! and my homemade spreader provided minimal (none?)resistance to the force of the spring. I had made it of 3/4", sched. 40 water pipe and 3/4-10 threaded rod. I used my backhoe to reassemble and your block of wood with some grease for the knuckle to slide on. It's all there in the pics! Enjoy!
Terry

[Dennis Pereira]

Tom point taken I have several more rear axle assembly's with chains wrapped around them to disarm . New tools on order .

[Dennis Pereira]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Go to my profile and enter the album"My A". Scan through my pics (they're badly out of order). In there, I show how my spring bent a piece of 3/4 -10 "ready rod" and sent that lil' bugger past my right leg about a zillion MPH. Since that was at disassembly, I had to go through it again to get it back together. Spronnggg! and my homemade spreader provided minimal (none?)resistance to the force of the spring. I had made it of 3/4", sched. 40 water pipe and 3/4-10 threaded rod. I used my backhoe to reassemble and your block of wood with some grease for the knuckle to slide on. It's all there in the pics! Enjoy!
Terry

Terry my tool is a lot safer than yours but they both need to be used as anchors . Your lucky to still be with us .

[Hoogah]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Go to my profile and enter the album"My A". Scan through my pics (they're badly out of order). In there, I show how my spring bent a piece of 3/4 -10 "ready rod" and sent that lil' bugger past my right leg about a zillion MPH. Since that was at disassembly, I had to go through it again to get it back together. Spronnggg! and my homemade spreader provided minimal (none?)resistance to the force of the spring. I had made it of 3/4", sched. 40 water pipe and 3/4-10 threaded rod. I used my backhoe to reassemble and your block of wood with some grease for the knuckle to slide on. It's all there in the pics! Enjoy!
Terry

Here 'tis:

[latecomer]

The greatest advice anyone could receive in regards to rear spring removal is to purchase a professionally made spreader do not fool with the spring. latecomer

[fiftyv8]

Originally Posted by forever4

Find or borrow one of these:

click> Model A & B Snap-On Rear Spring Spreader on Ford Garage

Is that Snap on spreader capable of spreading a complete spring loaded with all the leaves or is it just for the main leaf as shown in the picture link???

[1930marie]

The timing of this thread could not have come at a better time! I just finished the front spring and was blessed to have the loan of a brand new spreader from Brattons. I wish I would have used a grade 8 center bolt (there is NO reason not to). The judges can't see it. I just finished prepping the new shackles for the rear spring (only replacing the shackles) and I will be ordering that $130 spreader. I'm thinking replacing a shackle one side at a time with cross member bolted in place to crossmember will be easier? This thread really got my attention. Mike

[Terry, NJ]

Dennis, I severely misjudged the strength of the rear spring. The front was ok. I was very new to Mod. A s at the time and I just couldn't see the spring having that much force. These freakin things are deadly! If that thing had hit me, it would have been like a piece of shrapnel. It would have meant lotsa time in the hospital! Maybe my experience will save someone else's legs or what have you.
Terry

Originally Posted by Dennis Pereira

Terry my tool is a lot safer than yours but they both need to be used as anchors . Your lucky to still be with us .

[rexrogers]

After going over this thread i decided to buy a spring spreader for the rear. It made the job a lot easier, I have removed the springs before by taking it down to the main leaf and struggle from there. This tool was a good investment.

[CarlG]

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I saw (and bought) this spring spreader on eBay quite a while back. Also bought the front spreader from the same guy. It is a real robust spreader and has been used successfully by several members of our club.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Yep, quality tools pay for themselves. Your C clamps look like quality older American made tools, but NEVER use the cheap junk ones from Harbor Freight, as they have the strength of a wet noodle.

[rexrogers]

I agree with the c clamps and vice grips some things you have to step up and get the quality tools for. I didn't trust the center bolt so the c clamps were for my peace of mind.

That intake keeps following me around the car last week it wanted to hang out with the transmission, it is a scrap part that i just haven't pitched yet so it is keeping the rest of the car company for now.

[SSsssteamer]

My home made spring spreader had been working good for me for 48 years, until this last fall. The spreader's ends didn't have the horse shoes around to fully corral the spring's eyes. I had the rear axle out of the A pick up and the axle was laying with the torque tube straight in the air. My spreader had fully expanded the spring and I was hammering out the rusted in spring shackles with a driver. I only swung the hammer once and then things happened so fast that all I can do is to guess what happened next. One end of my spreader came unhooked and the spreader shot out of there like a large steel arrow from a gigantic cross bow. The rear leaf spring almost broke my ankle (ankle took three months to heal from a bone bruise) and to the right arm swinging the hammer, the spreader skinned my forearm to the bone as the spreader shot by. It took about three months for my forearm to fill the void of flesh in my arm and to finally grow new hide. Don't screw around with half assed spring spreaders as they could very easily kill you. You don't heal up from being dead.

[redmodelt]

Just a reminder, even the bottom leaf alone is under a good deal of tension. I took a spring apart down to the bottom leaf that was still attached to the perches, when I punched out the shackle on the one side, glad I was not standing in the way!!!

[Tom Endy]

There are a number of good testimonials in this post about the dangers associated with the rear spring on a Model A Ford.

Since I have a cottage industry rebuilding Model A differentials/rear axle assemblies I have heard a number of horror stories over the years from customers tangling with the rear spring.

When ever I see a post about the rear spring on this forum I get up on the soap box. It may prevent serious injury or save somebody's life.

My advice:

Obtain a proper spring spreader from any of the suppliers.

Make sure it is properly installed before beginning to spread the spring.

Never remove a rear axle assembly from a Model A with the spring attached.

If the task is to restore the spring use the spring spreader to remove the shackles while all is installed in the car. Once the rear axle assembly is out of the way collapse the spreader and remove it. Then and only then uncouple the spring from the frame and remove it. Install it back in the car in the reverse order.

Never attempt to install new bushings in the spring eyes while the spring is under tension and held by the spreader. Hammering could dislodge the spreader. Collapse the spreader and remove it first.

The two dangers involved are an improper spring spreader launching like a cross bow and the spring itself exploding when the center bolt comes apart.

Tom Endy

[ericr]

Originally Posted by forever4

Find or borrow one of these:

click> Model A & B Snap-On Rear Spring Spreader on Ford Garage

no denying that it looks something off the Titanic-----and just about as accessible. without someone making it commercially available, it remains an aspiration.

[Dennis Pereira]

My new tools arrived today but I'm still not to excited about working on the springs . The front spring tool looks just like the one I made only a larger all thread .

[Chris Haynes]

I just bought this tool. They show up on eBay now and then.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-KR-...vip=true&rt=nc

[Dennis Pereira]

Originally Posted by Dennis Pereira

My new tools arrived today but I'm still not to excited about working on the springs . The front spring tool looks just like the one I made only a larger all thread .

My tools arrived last wed and I tried them out today one front spring out and one rear spring out with no problems . Now to reinstall front is new and rear reworked just moving from one frame to another . Good rainy day project .

[MoJo's A]

Question #2
So what kind of spreader do you use for a reverse eye spring?


This has been a very informative post.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by MoJo's A

Question #2
So what kind of spreader do you use for a reverse eye spring?


This has been a very informative post.

You'd have to make some clamp on jig for each end of the spring so the spreader has something to push against. Two hunks of bar stock clamped on each end of the spring. I'd bevel the edge that the spreader pushes against, so it has a firm grip.