The Ford Barn

CWilson · 03-13-2016, 01:01 PM

After reading through past posts about noises coming from the timing gear, I pulled the cover. Can you guys take a look at these pictures, and let me know how it looks? Thanks.

Bob C · 03-13-2016, 01:17 PM

The oil slinger is missing on the front of the crank gear.

Bob

Tom Endy · 03-13-2016, 01:27 PM

I have seen a number of those fiber timing gears that have the metal insert in the center separate where the fiber joins the metal.

Tom Endy

CWilson · 03-13-2016, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Endy

I have seen a number of those fiber timing gears that have the metal insert in the center separate where the fiber joins the metal.

Tom Endy

Are you recommending it be replaced? Thanks for the reply.

Bob C · 03-13-2016, 01:57 PM

This is the type of timing gear Tom is referring to.

Bob

JBill · 03-13-2016, 02:03 PM

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Looks okay to me. I hope mine looks that good.

hardtimes · 03-13-2016, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWilson

Are you recommending it be replaced? Thanks for the reply.

Well, from what can be seen in pics, gear looks to be usable, DEPENDING !
If you put a lot of use on engine and/or higher speeds, IMO, it would be foolish for anyone to do all the work that has to be done to get to where you sit , and not put a metal cam gear on..at least aluminum. But, that is you call,eh Do you have a clue how many years that fiber gear has been in use on this engine ? The longer the time, the percentage goes up for its life end..because of basic make up..i.e.-fiber.
From what is shown (beating evidence on nut) , I'd say that it was worked on at some time..but how long ago ?
And, speaking of this type (original) nut. Does beating on engine parts with a hammer/chisel sound good/reasonable to anyone ? How about proper torqueing with this type nut. Just like better gears made now, hex nuts are made specifically for this use and can be torqued with proper torque wrench and taken off easily...no BFH (bigger fat hammer) nor cold chisel needed

A suggestion is to contact Dan McEachern...the gear master for replacement gears !

CWilson · 03-13-2016, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Well, from what can be seen in pics, gear looks to be usable, DEPENDING !
If you put a lot of use on engine and/or higher speeds, IMO, it would be foolish for anyone to do all the work that has to be done to get to where you sit , and not put a metal cam gear on..at least aluminum. But, that is you call,eh Do you have a clue how many years that fiber gear has been in use on this engine ? The longer the time, the percentage goes up for its life end..because of basic make up..i.e.-fiber.
From what is shown (beating evidence on nut) , I'd say that it was worked on at some time..but how long ago ?
And, speaking of this type (original) nut. Does beating on engine parts with a hammer/chisel sound good/reasonable to anyone ? How about proper torqueing with this type nut. Just like better gears made now, hex nuts are made specifically for this use and can be torqued with proper torque wrench and taken off easily...no BFH (bigger fat hammer) nor cold chisel needed

A suggestion is to contact Dan McEachern...the gear master for replacement gears !

This is the first time I have had the timing gear cover off since I have owned the truck. The engine was put in the truck about 15 years ago. (before I owned it), after being restored, (the truck that is, not sure about restoration of the motor. That was about 1500 miles ago. As I am just learning, you say there is a replacement hex nut? I will look into that. thank you.

Sunnybrook Farm · 03-13-2016, 02:34 PM

It looks good to me but like one of the guys said, while you have it apart is the time to put one in. I doubt that anyone ever put a torque wrench on any of these cars until recent decades, it is just the way it was done, look at all the tools that were included with the cars including a head nut wrench!

Fred K-OR · 03-13-2016, 02:42 PM

My nut showed the same marks when I had to replace my gear. I used the same method as used many moons ago (assumed) that was used on this nut to get it off and back on. If I had more time and patience I would have ordered a new nut with the hex nut end so next time it would come off easer. But decide for yourself if you want to replace nut and maybe the gear. Looks to me like things in this area are in reasonable shape but I am no expert on this subject.

Mitch//pa · 03-13-2016, 03:08 PM

Don't worry about the little Knicks on the cam nut.. Just buy the proper tool from one of the jobbers to remove and reinstall it.. Your gear looks fine but since your there you may as well replace it and get a new plunger and spring. You could have just removed the little two bolt side cover to inspect the gear teeth... At that point I would have put it back together.
Your call on the type of cam gear, I would go back with a fiber and not risk a whine or metal filings....

J Franklin · 03-13-2016, 03:18 PM

The gears look good. You should measure the mesh between the cam/crank gears and replace if it is excessive only. The product you purchase to use as a replacement might be better OR worse than what you are showing.

CWilson · 03-13-2016, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

You could have just removed the little two bolt side cover to inspect the gear teeth... At that point I would have put it back together.
Your call on the type of cam gear, I would go back with a fiber and not risk a whine or metal filings....

Noted, thanks Mitch

Dick M · 03-13-2016, 04:46 PM

I agree you should change it while you have it opened up. I would think that after 15 years it could become brittle and start to break up. You will need the correct socket tool to remove the cam nut. Perhaps some one in a Model A Club nearby would have one to borrow. I have found it is best to clamp the timing gear using two 1/2" blocks (one on each side of the cam gear) and two C-clamps. The blocks will rest on the pan holding the cam gear still when removing the cam nut. I found an impact driver works best on the really tight cam nuts. You can also use the clamp method to hold the cam gear still when installing your new cam gear. The blocks will then rest on the block portion of the timing gear housing. Les Andrews red book calls for 100 ft. lbs. of torque on the cam nut. Good Luck.

CWilson · 03-13-2016, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick M

I agree you should change it while you have it opened up. I would think that after 15 years it could become brittle and start to break up. You will need the correct socket tool to remove the cam nut. Perhaps some one in a Model A Club nearby would have one to borrow. I have found it is best to clamp the timing gear using two 1/2" blocks (one on each side of the cam gear) and two C-clamps. The blocks will rest on the pan holding the cam gear still when removing the cam nut. I found an impact driver works best on the really tight cam nuts. You can also use the clamp method to hold the cam gear still when installing your new cam gear. The blocks will then rest on the block portion of the timing gear housing. Les Andrews red book calls for 100 ft. lbs. of torque on the cam nut. Good Luck.

Thank you sir.

Synchro909 · 03-13-2016, 06:32 PM

It's not a big deal to change a timing gear - even on the side of the road. I'd hate to have to walk as far as that timing gear will take you.

Fred K-OR · 03-13-2016, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

Don't worry about the little Knicks on the cam nut.. Just buy the proper tool from one of the jobbers to remove and reinstall it.. Your gear looks fine but since your there you may as well replace it and get a new plunger and spring. You could have just removed the little two bolt side cover to inspect the gear teeth... At that point I would have put it back together.
Your call on the type of cam gear, I would go back with a fiber and not risk a whine or metal filings....

I agree with Mitch, it is a good idea to get one of the proper tools. I did buy the tool but I did not take the time to true up my cam nut and I could not get the tool over the nut. Thus put it back on the same way I took it off-with chisel and hammer. But you can take the nicks off the nut like Mitch mentioned if you want and the tool may work. I think if I had it to do over again, I would have gotten one of the cam nuts with the hex head on it also so I would not need the tool and could have checked the toque on the nut.

Pete · 03-13-2016, 07:37 PM

Both gears are toast.
The crank gear shows pitting.
The cam gear shows deep grooving.
As noted before, the slinger is missing on the crank snout.

The proper tool to remove the stock cam gear nut is available from several sources as is the hex nut if you want to go that way.

Contrary to what some people say, metal gears are NOT noisy if installed in sets with proper clearance.

Tom Wesenberg · 03-13-2016, 07:51 PM

Loosen the 2 hose clamps on the lower water pipe and turn it so the drain cock is pointing straight down. This will also align the pipe better to the radiator outlet.

Your 2 piece pulley and oil pan would need to be removed to install the missing oil singer. If it wasn't leaking oil out the front, and if the pulley is tight, I'd not worry about the slinger at this time.

Your pulley is quite rusty, and this will chew up your V belt. You could remove the pulley fairly easily since it's a 2 piece unit, then sandblast it and polish the V with a lathe. Another way to polish it would be to assemble the cover and run the engine with the belt off (coolant in) and use a dowel tapered to a wedge with emery cloth taped to the wedge. Press the emery to the sides of the V to polish the sides. In the late 70's I had a snowmobile clutch with a rusty pulley that wore out a new $30 belt in 2 miles.

hardtimes · 03-13-2016, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Both gears are toast.
The crank gear shows pitting.
The cam gear shows deep grooving.
As noted before, the slinger is missing on the crank snout.

The proper tool to remove the stock cam gear nut is available from several sources as is the hex nut if you want to go that way.

Contrary to what some people say, metal gears are NOT noisy if installed in sets with proper clearance.

X2 regarding 'wifes tale' of noisey 'metal cam' gear ! IF it were to me noisey....something is WRONG !
I've also run several sets of Dan's gears, including alum and bronge...TOOO quiet

03-13-2016, 01:01 PM	#1
CWilson Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Sunbury, OH Posts: 295	Timing Gear Help/Pictures After reading through past posts about noises coming from the timing gear, I pulled the cover. Can you guys take a look at these pictures, and let me know how it looks? Thanks.

03-13-2016, 01:17 PM	#2
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,748	Re: Timing Gear Help/Pictures The oil slinger is missing on the front of the crank gear. Bob

03-13-2016, 01:27 PM	#3
Tom Endy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,131	Re: Timing Gear Help/Pictures I have seen a number of those fiber timing gears that have the metal insert in the center separate where the fiber joins the metal. Tom Endy

03-13-2016, 02:03 PM	#6
JBill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 702	Re: Timing Gear Help/Pictures Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Looks okay to me. I hope mine looks that good.

03-13-2016, 02:34 PM	#9
Sunnybrook Farm Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Virginia Posts: 409	Re: Timing Gear Help/Pictures It looks good to me but like one of the guys said, while you have it apart is the time to put one in. I doubt that anyone ever put a torque wrench on any of these cars until recent decades, it is just the way it was done, look at all the tools that were included with the cars including a head nut wrench!

03-13-2016, 02:42 PM	#10
Fred K-OR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stayton, Oregon Posts: 3,806	Re: Timing Gear Help/Pictures My nut showed the same marks when I had to replace my gear. I used the same method as used many moons ago (assumed) that was used on this nut to get it off and back on. If I had more time and patience I would have ordered a new nut with the hex nut end so next time it would come off easer. But decide for yourself if you want to replace nut and maybe the gear. Looks to me like things in this area are in reasonable shape but I am no expert on this subject. __________________ Fred Kroon 1929 Std Coupe 1929 Huckster

03-13-2016, 03:08 PM	#11
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Timing Gear Help/Pictures Don't worry about the little Knicks on the cam nut.. Just buy the proper tool from one of the jobbers to remove and reinstall it.. Your gear looks fine but since your there you may as well replace it and get a new plunger and spring. You could have just removed the little two bolt side cover to inspect the gear teeth... At that point I would have put it back together. Your call on the type of cam gear, I would go back with a fiber and not risk a whine or metal filings....

03-13-2016, 03:18 PM	#12
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,962	Re: Timing Gear Help/Pictures The gears look good. You should measure the mesh between the cam/crank gears and replace if it is excessive only. The product you purchase to use as a replacement might be better OR worse than what you are showing.

03-13-2016, 04:46 PM	#14
Dick M Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ukiah, CA Posts: 477	Re: Timing Gear Help/Pictures I agree you should change it while you have it opened up. I would think that after 15 years it could become brittle and start to break up. You will need the correct socket tool to remove the cam nut. Perhaps some one in a Model A Club nearby would have one to borrow. I have found it is best to clamp the timing gear using two 1/2" blocks (one on each side of the cam gear) and two C-clamps. The blocks will rest on the pan holding the cam gear still when removing the cam nut. I found an impact driver works best on the really tight cam nuts. You can also use the clamp method to hold the cam gear still when installing your new cam gear. The blocks will then rest on the block portion of the timing gear housing. Les Andrews red book calls for 100 ft. lbs. of torque on the cam nut. Good Luck.

03-13-2016, 06:32 PM	#16
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Timing Gear Help/Pictures It's not a big deal to change a timing gear - even on the side of the road. I'd hate to have to walk as far as that timing gear will take you. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

03-13-2016, 07:37 PM	#18
Pete Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wa. Posts: 5,408	Re: Timing Gear Help/Pictures Both gears are toast. The crank gear shows pitting. The cam gear shows deep grooving. As noted before, the slinger is missing on the crank snout. The proper tool to remove the stock cam gear nut is available from several sources as is the hex nut if you want to go that way. Contrary to what some people say, metal gears are NOT noisy if installed in sets with proper clearance.

03-13-2016, 07:51 PM	#19
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Timing Gear Help/Pictures Loosen the 2 hose clamps on the lower water pipe and turn it so the drain cock is pointing straight down. This will also align the pipe better to the radiator outlet. Your 2 piece pulley and oil pan would need to be removed to install the missing oil singer. If it wasn't leaking oil out the front, and if the pulley is tight, I'd not worry about the slinger at this time. Your pulley is quite rusty, and this will chew up your V belt. You could remove the pulley fairly easily since it's a 2 piece unit, then sandblast it and polish the V with a lathe. Another way to polish it would be to assemble the cover and run the engine with the belt off (coolant in) and use a dowel tapered to a wedge with emery cloth taped to the wedge. Press the emery to the sides of the V to polish the sides. In the late 70's I had a snowmobile clutch with a rusty pulley that wore out a new $30 belt in 2 miles.