Parts Rant!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

I think Bill and the shocks are a poor example, his shocks sold out and there is a waiting list for new ones. I remember that the reason they stopped making them had to do more with the loss of the machinery then sales.

Not knowing anything about machining, but I would think a repetitive method of re-manufacturing could be found using at least original cases, and covers. but as I said I don't know.

There are several threads on how to make the fenders fit properly. It seems to me that the cost to make the repros fit is less then the amount to repair originals in a lot of cases.

How many units (years) of a "perfect" fit part is needed to sell to get back a tooling investment?

Let's look at Bratton's attempt to have ammeters built. He wanted 2000 units built. Right now they get, what 8.25, lets say it takes that much to make one "perfect", $8.25 x 2000 = $16,500 If they sell for $20.00 that's 835 units before break even. How many do you think are sold each year? Even if my manufacturing price is wrong and it cost 4.00 to make each one, that still 400 units before break even, more if the parts are wholesaled out.

Complain, absolutely If there is a difference between runs of the same item then maybe something can be done.

The shocks are a great example of how people are reluctant to spend money on quality pieces. The reason they sold out is the same reason why bread & milk sell out at the grocery store just before a big store comes.

Your example of the Ammeter is a good one. The price of US labor has become too expensive for us to compete globally. Because a 2,000 piece run of Ammeters is not worth the time to engineer and build many automated assembly fixtures, much of it would need to be assembled & tested by hand. The price of a conscientious skilled worker that does not need oversight or supervision will cost well above $35.00 per hour by the time labor burden & wage is factored in. Factoring 5 minutes per unit to assemble, test, clean & package each Ammeter, this puts the unit at about $3.00 a piece for labor only without any allocation for the materials needed. This same cost in a 3rd World country will likely be less than a dollar per unit Also remember that Brattons cannot just say the extra labor costs do not matter because they know their price point must not get too high since they already have an Ammeter competitor with an established price. If the US manufactured one gets priced too high (because of those extra production costs), then the consumer will continue to buy the cheaper/inferior quality unit. History has proven that with Model-A consumers.

[denis4x4]

It would be interesting to see a breakout as a percentage of the number of Fordbarn/Aooga A owners that:
1. Have finished drivers and/or points cars
2. Have projects needing parts/pieces/labor to finish
3. that are represented as a percentage of the total A owner population
4. Read the posts and move on

I've been involved in the automotive accessory aftermarket for 50 plus years and I can get some pretty solid numbers on owner's wants by year, make and purpose. On the other hand, I've got a project for an A/B motor item that would retail for under $30.00. However, getting solid numbers to justify the next step of creating tooling is on hold as there are really no numbers out there relating to the 4 items I listed above.

I keep referring to SEMA as they have created and maintained a data base that is available to aftermarket manufacturers. Does MARC or MAFCI have such a data base? That would go a long way towards giving manufacturers hard info to use in making a decision on whether or not to go into production on a specific A/B part.

While I think that the growth of the A hobby is on the decline, I do think that those under 40 years old coming on the scene are better equipped to pay a fair price for quality repro parts.

[H. L. Chauvin]

If one wants to add "re-built" shocks to the Parts Rant topic, it would not be out of order.

After testing some recently "re-built" shocks with a homemade tool confirmed to be similar to the Ford Bulletin's February 1931 recommended article:

K. R. Wilson Testing & Adjusting Shocks, (posted early this morning),

it was found what I expected & experienced with my improperly "re-built" shocks, that it appeared like I was driving a truck with heavier springs.

I doubt seriously if many "re-built" shocks could pass this K.R. Wilson Tool test for dropping 23 degrees in 15.5 seconds with a weight of 58.80 ounces at a distance of 26-1/2".

Many "re-built" shocks appear to be assembled in reverse with resistance in the upward direction, & the weight improperly drops in a rapid 2-4 seconds as opposed to 15.5 seconds.

Glad I called Mr. Bill Stipe earlier this week to find he is still taking orders for his new shocks.

If anyone sells shocks that can correctly pass the February 1931 Ford Bulletin Test, it would be a wonderful experience to buy these & drive with properly "re-built" shocks.

[sconnors]

I bought Bill Stipe shocks last year and are VERY satisfied with them!

[H. L. Chauvin]

I bought a Bill Stipe new cam a few years ago & set it up in a pair of upside down wood forks & tested the lobes with a dial instrument only to find the lift on lobes were all perfectly equal & exact.

I also tested a newly "reground" cam from another different shop that I did not use.

After testing reground cam lifts, if I had to guess, the guy who did the regrind first drank a bottle of whiskey, then turned the lights out in his shop at midnight, & proceeded to regrind the cam while wearing his welding helmet & allowing his cigar's smoke to cloud his view.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by denis4x4

It would be interesting to see a breakout as a percentage of the number of Fordbarn/Aooga A owners that:
1. Have finished drivers and/or points cars
2. Have projects needing parts/pieces/labor to finish
3. that are represented as a percentage of the total A owner population
4. Read the posts and move on

I've been involved in the automotive accessory aftermarket for 50 plus years and I can get some pretty solid numbers on owner's wants by year, make and purpose. On the other hand, I've got a project for an A/B motor item that would retail for under $30.00. However, getting solid numbers to justify the next step of creating tooling is on hold as there are really no numbers out there relating to the 4 items I listed above.

I keep referring to SEMA as they have created and maintained a data base that is available to aftermarket manufacturers. Does MARC or MAFCI have such a data base? That would go a long way towards giving manufacturers hard info to use in making a decision on whether or not to go into production on a specific A/B part.

While I think that the growth of the A hobby is on the decline, I do think that those under 40 years old coming on the scene are better equipped to pay a fair price for quality repro parts.

Denis, my guess is that leadership of MARC/MAFCA could put their heads together and come up with 99% of them. The two largest mfgs. that make parts is Walt Bratton and Don Snyder. Personally I feel they have a pretty good handle whether their item has a market. The ones of us who are deeply rooted in the hobby communicate, so we learn quickly what is "in the works". Speaking specifically about your new widget, it is my opinion that you should make a few prototypes or samples, and test the market yourself. The SEMA aftermarket they serve is WAY larger & deeper than the Model-A market. I do feel you are correct in more money being spent by the younger generations but I am not sure the hobby is on the decline. Club membership might be, ...but ownership still seems to be popular.

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

If one wants to add "re-built" shocks to the Parts Rant topic, it would not be out of order.

I doubt seriously if many "re-built" shocks could pass this K.R. Wilson Tool test for dropping 23 degrees in 15.5 seconds with a weight of 58.80 ounces at a distance of 26-1/2".

Many "re-built" shocks appear to be assembled....

Henry, this is a slippery-slope because "restored" means many different things to many different people. I think for years there have been items such as starters, generators, carburetors, etc. that often times are not truly returned to 100% original specifications.





Maybe a question now is should we all contact LeBaron-Bonney, Classtique, & Cartouche and tell them that many of their kits are incorrectly sewn and use incorrect materials. Do we feel they will listen to everyone and make their kits more authentic just as Henry spec-ed them?

[H. L. Chauvin]

Brent,

Agree that rebuilt means many different things to different people as far as appearance & function.

In my opinion, a rebuilt shock should provide proper resistance in the correct direction; & as far as starters, rebuilt starters should at the very least not rotate backwards & act in reverse like the rebuilt shocks are doing.

In my opinion, carefully testing proper function prior to mailing out rebuilt items is important.

[ericr]

in partial response to some of Brent's comments, and really, to this whole line of discussion, this disgruntlement stems from the fact that people in this country are led to believe that the free enterprise system always responds adequately and satisfactorily to consumer demand. Tain't always so, McGee. It can be far more complicated than that. We should all know this because it took Henry Ford, a maverick, to detect a demand for lower-priced automobiles of quality. Which the other manufacturers had ignored.

[sconnors]

Originally Posted by ericr

in partial response to some of Brent's comments, and really, to this whole line of discussion, this disgruntlement stems from the fact that people in this country are led to believe that the free enterprise system always responds adequately and satisfactorily to consumer demand. Tain't always so, McGee. It can be far more complicated than that. We should all know this because it took Henry Ford, a maverick, to detect a demand for lower-priced automobiles of quality. Which the other manufacturers had ignored.

Amen!

[denis4x4]

Brent, you missed my point. Vic Edlebrock doesn't call Tay Offenhauser to see if there is a market for Yugo intake manifolds, he calls SEMA for info on a data base in order to make a decision. If there was aMARC/MAFCI data base, a lot of guys might take advantage of building quality parts if the market was there. Another question is how much duplication in reader duplication between the two club magazines and FAST and SOSS? Through in two websites and again, there is no good info available to make a marketing decision.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

I bought a Bill Stipe new cam a few years ago & set it up in a pair of upside down wood forks & tested the lobes with a dial instrument only to find the lift on lobes were all perfectly equal & exact.

I also tested a newly "reground" cam from another different shop that I did not use.

After testing reground cam lifts, if I had to guess, the guy who did the regrind first drank a bottle of whiskey, then turned the lights out in his shop at midnight, & proceeded to regrind the cam while wearing his welding helmet & allowing his cigar's smoke to cloud his view.

They probably have a worn out master.

[ian Simpson]

Your Model A is at least 83 years old. Do not expect new parts to have a perfect fit every time. This is not an excuse for crap parts that may come your way, but please realise that changes and wear to your vehicle over the years may render even good quality replacements a poor fit.

I have owned my 1928 Tudor for nearly 7 years and have yet to find a replacement part that is not usable, though some have required a little fettling. Maybe part of this is that I am not a mechanic. During my training as an engineer (co-op student) I worked at the bench as a fitter, where I was expected to make parts fit. For example, we were expected to hand scrape bronze bearings on very large electric motor/generators to within 1/1000 of an inch. (Clearance Specs were: 1/1000 inch per inch of shaft diam. plus 1/1000).

From my readings of this of this forum, most of the successful owners of Model As have similar skills. Although, like me they can whine about the extra work.

[dumb person]

i like the fact parts are available.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

Brent, you missed my point. Vic Edlebrock doesn't call Tay Offenhauser to see if there is a market for Yugo intake manifolds, he calls SEMA for info on a data base in order to make a decision. If there was aMARC/MAFCI data base, a lot of guys might take advantage of building quality parts if the market was there. Another question is how much duplication in reader duplication between the two club magazines and FAST and SOSS? Through in two websites and again, there is no good info available to make a marketing decision.

Ok, how does SEMA actually know if there is a market for Yugo manifolds? Suppose they give him data and he acts accordingly however their data is not 'real world'? Does he go blame SEMA? To me, he is expecting an organization to do his job for him. To me this is much akin to a liberalistic mindset and not the way free-enterprise was intended.

Now let's relate this to a Model-A. There is a little widget called a Rear Main Janitor. To me, it is one of the most ignorant items sold for a Model-A and I would not be guilty of owning, -nor recommend one ....however I see them on vehicles that come into my shop all the time. For me personally, I do not want to be paying extra dues for a Club to generate the funds to put someone on staff to research whether there is a market for a Rear Main Janitor! If Bill Stipe had gone to the club to ask about the need for shocks, if their polls were the same as the feedback here, the Club would have told Bill to make those shocks because people need them. Guess what, ...that ain't the case. What about an affordable counter weighted crankshaft? People talk about how they want to Tour and as such, this should be a positive improvement and an item that should sell well. Guess what again!!

With regard to magazine duplication of topics or two clubs, most people have no clue of the politics that are behind their existence nor do they care to know. Most Members/Subscribers choose whichever club/magazine appeals to them and they join. By the amount of annual renewals, I'd say most feel satisfied in what they receive for their $$. One thing to remember is Competition generally makes us strive to be better. Having no competition brings complacency.

[Del in NE Ohio]

As an owner and DRIVER of three A's, I can truthfully say I have never been more than inconvienced by an ill fitting repo part. I am thankful that so much is so readily available. When I got my first Model A at the age of 14, the only source I could find for parts was a J.C. Whitney catalog. Take a minute and look back at where we as a "hobby" have come from. If you want a "collector/historical/specialty car to own or drive, no other such car has such an abundance of parts (new repo and orig) available for a reasonable amount of $. Look what people spend to build/drive/maintain muscle cars, corvettes, etc. We've got it pretty good.

Been following this post for a while and finally had to comment. If repo parts are such a frustration, there is an even simpler solution to your frustration. DON"T BUY THEM! MAKE A PERSONAL COMMITMENT THAT YOU WILL FROM HENCEFORTH BUY AND USE ONLY ORGINAL PARTS! PROBLEM SOLVED.

[George Miller]

Every one is missing the point. As a machinist that worked in a cylinder plant. It is not that hard to make the part right. It looks to me that most of the bad parts are not made by real machinist. A real machinist would not let a bad part go out the door.

[Terry,NJ]

George, as one machinist (Tool and Diemaker, Modelmaker) to another, I always had to make what the boss said to make, Period! If he said it was good enough, get it out the door! That's what we did. If he was willing to produce scheisse, then we had make the best scheisse we could and hope no one noticed. It was out of our hands.
Terry

Originally Posted by George Miller

Every one is missing the point. As a machinist that worked in a cylinder plant. It is not that hard to make the part right. It looks to me that most of the bad parts are not made by real machinist. A real machinist would not let a bad part go out the door.