1938 alignment specs

[Jacques1960]

Does anyone have the shop manual table showing alignment specs ? Thank you

[39portlander]

Will look through a few books to locate any numbers but...toe 1/8" on most older vehicles should work out great as a starting point.

The Blue 32-41 service manual show Castor max/min 8-4 1/2 deg, camber max/min 1-1/4deg and toe-ion 1/16-1/8". Hope this helps.

[V8COOPMAN]

.

AND.....you can't change the CAMBER or CASTER without bending the axle, or at least "pie-cutting" the wishbone. DD

[Jacques1960]

Thank you

[Kube]

Here ya go:

Castor: minimum 4 1/2°, maximum 9°. Maximum variation between wheels 1/2°.
Camber: minimum 1/4°, maximum 1°. Maximum variation between wheels 1/4°.
Camber plus side inclination: Minimum 8 1/4°. Maximum 9°.
Toe-in:1/16". Must be in proportion to camber, ratio is 1:10.

[Ggmac]

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If you havent changed the front spring or inserted the very important frame to spring piece backwards (its tapered and sets your caster ) only bending will help like v-8 coopman said .

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Ggmac

If you havent changed the front spring or inserted the very important frame to spring piece backwards (its tapered and sets your caster ) only bending will help like v-8 coopman said .

What's a "frame to spring piece"?

[19Fordy]

Yes, V8, inquiring minds want to know.

Which makes me wonder; How do you set or adjust the caster on a 40 Ford. I have been told the stock axle is straight with no built in castor and that there is no 'front" and "backside" for the solid axle

Although, you often hear the castor is set by bending the axle.

I would think the vertical height of the wishbone "ball" from level ground would play a roll in castor adjustment because moving it up or down will effect king pin inclination.

Am I incorrect? Not trying to hijack this thread.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Yes, V8, inquiring minds want to know.

Which makes me wonder; How do you set or adjust the caster on a 40 Ford. I have been told the stock axle is straight with no built in castor and that there is no 'front" and "backside" for the solid axle

Although, you often hear the castor is set by bending the axle.

I would think the vertical height of the wishbone "ball" from level ground would play a roll in castor adjustment because moving it up or down will effect king pin inclination.

Am I incorrect? Not trying to hijack this thread.

Perhaps "The Caster Is Set by...." is not the best choice of words. To make all of this perfectly clear, this Coopman probably SHOULD have said...."To RE-SET the Caster once you've run over a couple of curbs, you must BEND the AXLE."

You are correct Jim, in that there is no 'front or rear' to these Ford I-beam axles. The king pin angles are factory-forged at the appropriate angles so as to produce the factory-designed CASTER and CAMBER angles when properly fitted within the stock wishbone as an assembly. The ball at the rear of the wishbone is secured at a pre-determined height (and angle) when bolted into the factory-designed socket in the center crossmember so as to SET the CASTER angle from the factory. And since the king pin bores are straight up and down with reference to the vertical center line of the axle as viewed from the side, the CASTER angle will remain constant whether the axle is mounted one way, or the other.....note the drawing below! The CASTER angle WILL CHANGE minutely as the axle travels up and down (in an ARC, about the wishbone ball) from a static setting.

CAMBER angles are pre-determined by the forging and machining process, as the mounting of the axle within the wishbone will facilitate proper angles when mounted in the chassis. Again, sliding into curbs and BENDING the end of an axle will upset the original setting, requiring RE-BENDING back to the proper setting. So, the original settings are designed-into the axle/wishbone assembly.....as long as you don't ever whang the front end suspension components to the point of BENDING them initially.

As a side note, king pin lock bolt holes ARE NOT tapered, front to rear! DD







........

[Ggmac]

Originally Posted by Kube

What's a "frame to spring piece"?

The piece that goes between the frame crossmember and the spring . It looks like a small spring leaf and is tapered . It use to be available in different tapers for alignment . Factory book has a better description of it . Put it in backwards, thick side to the front and youll be scratching your head . Ill look thru the manuals for a page and paragraph, im not making this up .

[Ggmac]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Perhaps "The Caster Is Set by...." is not the best choice of words. To make all of this perfectly clear, this Coopman probably SHOULD have said...."To RE-SET the Caster once you've run over a couple of curbs, you must BEND the AXLE."

You are correct Jim, in that there is no 'front or rear' to these Ford I-beam axles. The king pin angles are factory-forged at the appropriate angles so as to produce the factory-designed CASTER and CAMBER angles when properly fitted within the stock wishbone as an assembly. The ball at the rear of the wishbone is secured at a pre-determined height (and angle) when bolted into the factory-designed socket in the center crossmember so as to SET the CASTER angle from the factory. And since the king pin bores are straight up and down with reference to the vertical center line of the axle as viewed from the side, the CASTER angle will remain constant whether the axle is mounted one way, or the other.....note the drawing below! The CASTER angle WILL CHANGE minutely as the axle travels up and down (in an ARC, about the wishbone ball) from a static setting.

CAMBER angles are pre-determined by the forging and machining process, as the mounting of the axle within the wishbone will facilitate proper angles when mounted in the chassis. Again, sliding into curbs and BENDING the end of an axle will upset the original setting, requiring RE-BENDING back to the proper setting. So, the original settings are designed-into the axle/wishbone assembly.....as long as you don't ever whang the front end suspension components to the point of BENDING them initially.

As a side note, king pin lock bolt holes ARE NOT tapered, front to rear! DD







........

I did NOT say the axle was , I said the plate was made on a taper . Gosh guys , go easy here . Im glad I brought this up as two of the most knowledgeable guys on here didnt know about this . Proof coming , I guess thats what’s required, besides doing front end work on a few old fords in my life , too many years in a pit .

[Ggmac]

Any one have 1939-48 ford and Mercury shop manual , passenger carsand trucks ? Page 266 , To remove and replace LONGITUDINAL spring , 5 paragraph... will be found a metal wedge ,5336 . This is to give the axle the correct castor and must be replaced with the thin end of the wedge towards the front of vehicle.
I can take a pic and have but Im too tech challenged to post but can email pics and in the past Jsery has posted for me .
NOT NEEDED ! I just realized what the book is saying and what I thought it was saying . Two all together different procedures.

[Ggmac]

All these years Ive been under the assumption that the wedge was needed for setting and adjusting castor . So much for my old bosses education in the pit . I dont know if the wedges were ford or aftermarket or if he got his idea from the longitudinal spring and just assumed it was for the transverse spring. So , ive learned something. Read , measure and always double check .

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Ggmac

I can take a pic and have but Im too tech challenged to post but can email pics and in the past Jsery has posted for me .

Ggmac......Send me that pic(s) and I'll post it (them). DD


[email protected]

[Ggmac]

Okay , but Ive realized my idiot thinking and belief or misunderstanding my old boss.

[Ggmac]

The one thing I do know is that we did have tapered shims ( mini spring that was guessing 1/4 in the back and 1/8 in the front ) they came in a few different angles and it would change the castor any where from a 1/2 to 3/4 deg . It did stress the bones ,it had to , but it was never noticeable. On one hotrodded 40 , tall in the back , we used 2 shims and a lowering block for the ball . It was an old John Beam pit and these items were on the shelf .

[JSeery]

In a hotrod environment, you can just pie cut the wishbone and rewind it up and/or relocate the ball end

[19Fordy]

The GREEN BIBLE and THE 1938-41 FORD & MERCURY PASSENGER & TRUCK Manual show a listing for "the wedge" as being used only in commercial and truck vehicles.

When I removed my coupe OEM front spring there was only a piece of canvas type cloth about 1/8 inch thick between frame and spring. I replaced that with a piece of .090 " aluminum as I assumed it would collect moisture.

[Ggmac]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

The GREEN BIBLE and THE 1938-41 FORD & MERCURY PASSENGER & TRUCK Manual show la listing for "the wedge" as being used only in commercial and truck vehicles.

Yes that's shy all my posts , I proved I m an idiot ! But see post 13,15&16. Sorry my tablet isn't behaving .

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Kube

What's a "frame to spring piece"?

OK guys....Here is one of the pictures that "Ggmac" was wanting to post. I believe he now realizes his mistake concerning the 'wedgie-thing' ("frame to spring piece") that he THOUGHT was used to "set the caster". We all know that what he was mistakenly referring to was an I-beam setting on two parallel springs, such as used under the pick-ups beginning in '42.....and NOT a '38 Ford passenger car. DD