The Ford Barn

ctvpa · 12-26-2013, 06:48 PM

Thank you to all of you who assisted in my problem.

UPDATE !
Even though I did an email order for a 6v +g rebuild &
I send an printed out order form for a 6v +g rebuild &
I sent a letter with the unit 6v +g rebuild &
They called me to confirm 6v +g rebuild &
They marked the unit 6v +g rebuild

They did a 12 volt rebuild. I have to send it back. I don't think I should have to pay, $50 each way to them. Regarding using period cloth covered wire, I was told it is too expensive (.25/foot at Snyders) and not currently available (Snyders has it in stock).
They also told me if I want period style wires, I should include them in the unit when I send it back.
I don't think I should have to pay a dime out of this. Purely their fault, I have all the paperwork. They are trying to tell me that this had already been converted to 12 volt. No way! The car only has 46k original miles, and the former owner had it for over 50 years. It has taken national Best of Shows. I am only the 3rd owner since new. And it did not put out 3 volts when I sent it to them.
Depending how this turns out, if they want me to pay, I will reveal the name. This shop was recommended by members of the Barn when I posted for help. If they stick me with charges, I will warn others.
Does this look like a car that has been improperly cared for?
I paid $300 for this rebuild !

FIRST POST :
Greetings.
I am normally a Model A guy, but recently purchased a 34 V8. The car has been in storage for many years, but is in outstanding condition with 46,000 original miles.
I tested things out and found my output from my generator was quite weak. I sent it to a shop in California for a $$ rebuild.
I received it back yesterday and installed it today. I have a brand new quality cutout. When I power upped the engine, I had my volt meter - on the output and + on the ground. When I started the motor I got negative reading, so I swapped the connections and put the + on the output of the generator, and the - on the ground I am showing 13-14 volts. I shut everything down right away.
My questions are,
1) Did they do an error in the rebuild?
2) Am I checking this wrong?
3) It ran for about 2 minutes, did I do any damage?
4) why would a professional antique auto restoration company, use plastic wires with compression fasteners rather than period correct looking modern wires and connectors?

Thank you,
Craig

rotorwrench · 12-26-2013, 07:01 PM

Due to these types of things happening to myself when I was younger, I made a point of finding ways to do as much of my own work as I possibly can. Since I purchased an old growler years ago, I've done quite a few generator overhauls. I'm still looking for a good mica undercutter tool to dress the comutators with. I still do it by hand when I have to. I've even made a few special field pole screw removal tools too.

I hope things work out for you. Nobody likes going through this sort of thing.

Marv · 12-26-2013, 07:01 PM

Before i would pay $50 to ship it back, i would try to sell it on the Barn. Maybe someone here could use it and you could get your money back.

ctvpa · 12-26-2013, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Due to these types of things happening to myself when I was younger, I made a point of finding ways to do as much of my own work as I possibly can. Since I purchased an old growler years ago, I've done quite a few generator overhauls. I'm still looking for a good mica undercutter tool to dress the comutators with. I still do it by hand when I have to. I've even made a few special field pole screw removal tools too.

I hope things work out for you. Nobody likes going through this sort of thing.

I used a fine hack saw blade that I trimmed to undercut the mica, I would love to find a growler for sale. Thanks for the reply, I will keep you posted

ctvpa · 12-26-2013, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marv

Before i would pay $50 to ship it back, i would try to sell it on the Barn. Maybe someone here could use it and you could get your money back.

Yes, but it is an all original car, and changing parts has to be noted when I enter the car as unrestored. Thanks for the reply, I will keep you posted

terry · 12-26-2013, 07:21 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

The old 3brush generator will work with 12volts but the charge rate must be limited
to around 10 amps only with the 3rd brush. Fun projects set me up with a reg built to look like the original cut out. This has worked well for me for years, but I don't have many electrical accessories that use a lot of amps except the headlights. Terry

koates · 12-26-2013, 07:42 PM

WOW! That's a shame. Do you think the generator you got back was your original one off your car ? If it is it could be repaired still. But the field coils and possibly the armature were maybe changed out when they converted it to 12 volts. Is the 3rd brush and holder still inside? Must be a 12 volt cutout on it too. Maybe that is not your original generator but just a rebuilt 12 volt one they had in stock. I could put it right for you but shipping to and from Australia plus cost would not be worth it. I do know of a good auto electrical shop in the USA if you need help later. Hope you can work this out OK. Regards, Kevin.

ctvpa · 12-26-2013, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koates

WOW! That's a shame. Do you think the generator you got back was your original one off your car ? If it is it could be repaired still. But the field coils and possibly the armature were maybe changed out when they converted it to 12 volts. Is the 3rd brush and holder still inside? Must be a 12 volt cutout on it too. Maybe that is not your original generator but just a rebuilt 12 volt one they had in stock. I could put it right for you but shipping to and from Australia plus cost would not be worth it. I do know of a good auto electrical shop in the USA if you need help later. Hope you can work this out OK. Regards, Kevin.

I looked inside and everything is there. They say it is not an issue, but they say that the generator I sent them was 12 volts, no way.
I learned my lesson, I stamp my initial on an unseen surface to see if it is the same, it is the same.
A friend had a rebuild on his engine. Sent it to a place that people swear by. The engine was bad after about 100 miles. He had a different engine shop open it up. There was muck oil, and silica from a sandblaster inside the engine. He notified the first shop, who offered to rebuild the engine free. In 6 weeks the engine came back, and he brought it to the second shop, who opened it up, and there was the same muck/ sand but they had etched their initials in it, and photographed it before and after sending it to the shop for the repair. He called and told the shop he was taking them to court, they said fine. He emailed the photos he had, with the initals; they stopped the court action and sent him his money back.
Initals and photos on everything for me.

spdway1 · 12-26-2013, 08:50 PM

I could hear your SCREAMS from hear!
Your luck is as good as mine!

roadster36 · 12-27-2013, 12:08 AM

Check my posts, I have a growler I am no longer using if you still need one.

Terry,OH · 12-27-2013, 07:12 AM

I agree with you: You should not have to pay an additional dime to get the generator properly repaired. I would ask to speak with the owner of the shop. If you still do not like the results, post them here to update us.
I would not think you have to inform anyone of changing the generator, to another that works properly and has the proper date code, on your original car. Can you be assured the generator was not changed before you purchased the car? Take a close look at the date code stamped on the body of the Gen. near the Ford script. This will tell you if the generator is of the same approximate Mfg. period as the car. For 34 the first letter should be "O" or maybe "N" If O you still have to make sure the month code is less than your vehicle Mfg. date code.
By the way the car appears to be in fantastic condition!! I saw one at Hershey about a year ago but it was not in the same condition as yours.

BILL WZOREK · 12-27-2013, 07:43 AM

Craig:
Even if you did send a 12v gen. all paper work said 6v pos ground.
If in fact it is now 12v as it appears you should not have to pay any more Include shipping either way.
As far as you furnishing the wire. Do you have to bring your own Bacon & Eggs to the restaurant for breakfast?????

Was there any Guarantee Written Or applied?

It would be interesting to find out if they are under new ownership.

I Hope you get this Ironed out.

BILL W

richard crow · 12-27-2013, 08:19 AM

send it in a post office flat rate box med. size about 13.00 large about 17.00

whizzernick · 12-27-2013, 08:37 AM

I am confused why a rebuild should cost $300. I just had my early 33 gen and starter rebuilt . Rebuilder was a local alt- starter- gen rebuild shop. Cost $160 .
Just my 2 cents

rotorwrench · 12-27-2013, 09:40 AM

Local guys are the best way to go if you have one. There aren't as many as there used to be.

Andy · 12-27-2013, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Local guys are the best way to go if you have one. There aren't as many as there used to be.

Do you know of anyone in San Antonio??

Bob C · 12-27-2013, 11:47 AM

Why not PM Tom Wesenberg on the Model A forum??

Bob

34billct · 12-27-2013, 12:10 PM

I do not know why you sent it to west coast as there are plenty good re builders in the east for one CHARLES SCHWENDLER in NY 716 662 9159 that will do a period correct rebuild and install a sealed front bearing.

rotorwrench · 12-27-2013, 12:45 PM

There should be in a city this big but I haven't gone looking yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

Do you know of anyone in San Antonio??

ctvpa · 12-27-2013, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 34billct

I do not know why you sent it to west coast as there are plenty good re builders in the east for one CHARLES SCHWENDLER in NY 716 662 9159 that will do a period correct rebuild and install a sealed front bearing.

I asked all the people I knew with V8's and the vote was this shop. I called the shop, and they told me "Most all work is done here". Now they say "We never said that, we are a parts store, we send it to a rebuilder"
Who do you believe.

BrianCT · 12-27-2013, 10:02 PM

You could try Henry DiOrio sp in Mass.

ctvpa · 01-26-2014, 07:14 PM

UPDATE 1/26/14

Well gentlemen, as you know I sent a 6v+g generator rebuilt.
They sent a 12v +g back. (With their own inventory tag listing it as a 6v+g)

They tried to tell me that this is MY fault, that I sent them a 12 volt.
The car is original with 40k miles, it won a Classic Car Club National First. I really doubt the wrong generator is in it.

I complained and they offered to correct it.
I sent the generator back, with all the information attached to it. I got my new one,,,,,,,, 12 volt - Ground !
I just cannot believe it.

The company is C&G Ford Parts http://cgfordparts.com/ from Escondido, Ca.
I am so frustrated !

12-26-2013, 06:48 PM	#1
ctvpa Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 479	34 Generator UPDATE Thank you to all of you who assisted in my problem. UPDATE ! Even though I did an email order for a 6v +g rebuild & I send an printed out order form for a 6v +g rebuild & I sent a letter with the unit 6v +g rebuild & They called me to confirm 6v +g rebuild & They marked the unit 6v +g rebuild They did a 12 volt rebuild. I have to send it back. I don't think I should have to pay, $50 each way to them. Regarding using period cloth covered wire, I was told it is too expensive (.25/foot at Snyders) and not currently available (Snyders has it in stock). They also told me if I want period style wires, I should include them in the unit when I send it back. I don't think I should have to pay a dime out of this. Purely their fault, I have all the paperwork. They are trying to tell me that this had already been converted to 12 volt. No way! The car only has 46k original miles, and the former owner had it for over 50 years. It has taken national Best of Shows. I am only the 3rd owner since new. And it did not put out 3 volts when I sent it to them. Depending how this turns out, if they want me to pay, I will reveal the name. This shop was recommended by members of the Barn when I posted for help. If they stick me with charges, I will warn others. Does this look like a car that has been improperly cared for? I paid $300 for this rebuild ! FIRST POST : Greetings. I am normally a Model A guy, but recently purchased a 34 V8. The car has been in storage for many years, but is in outstanding condition with 46,000 original miles. I tested things out and found my output from my generator was quite weak. I sent it to a shop in California for a $$ rebuild. I received it back yesterday and installed it today. I have a brand new quality cutout. When I power upped the engine, I had my volt meter - on the output and + on the ground. When I started the motor I got negative reading, so I swapped the connections and put the + on the output of the generator, and the - on the ground I am showing 13-14 volts. I shut everything down right away. My questions are, 1) Did they do an error in the rebuild? 2) Am I checking this wrong? 3) It ran for about 2 minutes, did I do any damage? 4) why would a professional antique auto restoration company, use plastic wires with compression fasteners rather than period correct looking modern wires and connectors? Thank you, Craig Last edited by ctvpa; 12-26-2013 at 08:52 PM.

12-26-2013, 07:01 PM	#2
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,422	Re: 34 Generator UPDATE Due to these types of things happening to myself when I was younger, I made a point of finding ways to do as much of my own work as I possibly can. Since I purchased an old growler years ago, I've done quite a few generator overhauls. I'm still looking for a good mica undercutter tool to dress the comutators with. I still do it by hand when I have to. I've even made a few special field pole screw removal tools too. I hope things work out for you. Nobody likes going through this sort of thing.

12-26-2013, 07:01 PM	#3
Marv Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 875	Re: 34 Generator UPDATE Before i would pay $50 to ship it back, i would try to sell it on the Barn. Maybe someone here could use it and you could get your money back.

12-26-2013, 07:21 PM	#6
terry Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 261	Re: 34 Generator UPDATE Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The old 3brush generator will work with 12volts but the charge rate must be limited to around 10 amps only with the 3rd brush. Fun projects set me up with a reg built to look like the original cut out. This has worked well for me for years, but I don't have many electrical accessories that use a lot of amps except the headlights. Terry

12-26-2013, 07:42 PM	#7
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,078	Re: 34 Generator UPDATE WOW! That's a shame. Do you think the generator you got back was your original one off your car ? If it is it could be repaired still. But the field coils and possibly the armature were maybe changed out when they converted it to 12 volts. Is the 3rd brush and holder still inside? Must be a 12 volt cutout on it too. Maybe that is not your original generator but just a rebuilt 12 volt one they had in stock. I could put it right for you but shipping to and from Australia plus cost would not be worth it. I do know of a good auto electrical shop in the USA if you need help later. Hope you can work this out OK. Regards, Kevin.

12-27-2013, 12:08 AM	#10
roadster36 BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sonoma,Calif. Posts: 877	Re: 34 Generator UPDATE Check my posts, I have a growler I am no longer using if you still need one.

12-27-2013, 07:12 AM	#11
Terry,OH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,743	Re: 34 Generator UPDATE I agree with you: You should not have to pay an additional dime to get the generator properly repaired. I would ask to speak with the owner of the shop. If you still do not like the results, post them here to update us. I would not think you have to inform anyone of changing the generator, to another that works properly and has the proper date code, on your original car. Can you be assured the generator was not changed before you purchased the car? Take a close look at the date code stamped on the body of the Gen. near the Ford script. This will tell you if the generator is of the same approximate Mfg. period as the car. For 34 the first letter should be "O" or maybe "N" If O you still have to make sure the month code is less than your vehicle Mfg. date code. By the way the car appears to be in fantastic condition!! I saw one at Hershey about a year ago but it was not in the same condition as yours.

12-27-2013, 07:43 AM	#12
BILL WZOREK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florence Ma. Posts: 2,404	Re: 34 Generator UPDATE Craig: Even if you did send a 12v gen. all paper work said 6v pos ground. If in fact it is now 12v as it appears you should not have to pay any more Include shipping either way. As far as you furnishing the wire. Do you have to bring your own Bacon & Eggs to the restaurant for breakfast????? Was there any Guarantee Written Or applied? It would be interesting to find out if they are under new ownership. I Hope you get this Ironed out. BILL W

12-27-2013, 08:19 AM	#13
richard crow Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,767	Re: 34 Generator UPDATE send it in a post office flat rate box med. size about 13.00 large about 17.00

12-27-2013, 08:37 AM	#14
whizzernick Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hayward Ca Posts: 635	Re: 34 Generator UPDATE I am confused why a rebuild should cost $300. I just had my early 33 gen and starter rebuilt . Rebuilder was a local alt- starter- gen rebuild shop. Cost $160 . Just my 2 cents

12-27-2013, 09:40 AM	#15
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,422	Re: 34 Generator UPDATE Local guys are the best way to go if you have one. There aren't as many as there used to be.

12-27-2013, 11:47 AM	#17
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,741	Re: 34 Generator UPDATE Why not PM Tom Wesenberg on the Model A forum?? Bob

12-27-2013, 12:10 PM	#18
34billct Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: westport ct. Posts: 166	Re: 34 Generator UPDATE I do not know why you sent it to west coast as there are plenty good re builders in the east for one CHARLES SCHWENDLER in NY 716 662 9159 that will do a period correct rebuild and install a sealed front bearing.

12-27-2013, 10:02 PM	#21
BrianCT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Windham, CT Posts: 702	Re: 34 Generator UPDATE You could try Henry DiOrio sp in Mass. __________________ [FONT=Comic Sans MS]

01-26-2014, 07:14 PM	#22
ctvpa Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 479	Re: 34 Generator UPDATE UPDATE 1/26/14 Well gentlemen, as you know I sent a 6v+g generator rebuilt. They sent a 12v +g back. (With their own inventory tag listing it as a 6v+g) They tried to tell me that this is MY fault, that I sent them a 12 volt. The car is original with 40k miles, it won a Classic Car Club National First. I really doubt the wrong generator is in it. I complained and they offered to correct it. I sent the generator back, with all the information attached to it. I got my new one,,,,,,,, 12 volt - Ground ! I just cannot believe it. The company is C&G Ford Parts http://cgfordparts.com/ from Escondido, Ca. I am so frustrated !