Engine Rebabbiting Service

[ursus]

I noticed on the MAFCA site that Bill Barlow of Bend, Oregon has retired from rebabbiting Model A/B engines. As he had several helpers in this activity, has anybody taken this over from him? Bill Barlow was a master of this craft.

[nkaminar]

I cannot help you with your question but have a related response.

You can re Babbett the engine and line bore it yourself. The tools are available on the internet. It helps to have some experience in re babbetting engines.

Note that Babbett is a proper name after Isaac Babbett who developed the metal alloy. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_(alloy)

[ursus]

Having seen babbitt poured and line bored, it isn't something that an inexperienced person could successfully pull off without many hours of practice following the up front investment in a couple thousand $$ worth of equipment. I would prefer to leave that to somebody with the requisite experience, hence my inquiry.

[johnneilson]

Originally Posted by ursus

Having seen babbitt poured and line bored, it isn't something that an inexperienced person could successfully pull off without many hours of practice following the up front investment in a couple thousand $$ worth of equipment. I would prefer to leave that to somebody with the requisite experience, hence my inquiry.

This is a very wise man.
While I have not poured babbitt, I have removed my fair share in preparation of boring for inserts.
What I can tell you is that I can tell who knew what they were doing, both in the application and type of materials used.

This is an example of the craftsmanship being lost these days.
You cannot learn this from watching a video.

Best of luck in finding a competent shop, John

[PC/SR]

Bill was training his grandson last I saw him, a few years back. Have heard he is doing babbitting as a side business, but do not know for sure.

[old31]

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I am times 2 with ursus.

[jack backer]

Erik Barrett in Auburn CA..

The digital thermometer has taken a lot of the art out of pouring babbit..but it is an interesting process requiring experience and skill.

[larrys40]

Originally Posted by johnneilson

This is a very wise man.
While I have not poured babbitt, I have removed my fair share in preparation of boring for inserts.
What I can tell you is that I can tell who knew what they were doing, both in the application and type of materials used.

This is an example of the craftsmanship being lost these days.
You cannot learn this from watching a video.

Best of luck in finding a competent shop, John

John,
Well said. I’ve done a small number of them but have plenty of other full time A work. Fortunately we have a local guy that’s all he does. Palmer Lawson. He’s 84 but still at it and does a wonderful job on mains. We use AER ‘s inserted rods.
The new burtz blocks are a great option but I still don’t think it’s for the novice to do their own. It is nieve to think that anyone can do it. Those that say that have obviously never done it, and to think you can by watching a few videos and buying a fixture online. You have to be part machinest and understand the Babbitt process, temperature, and machining of all the mains including thrust. It is indeed an element of experience. My friend Arlyn in Sam Diego said he’s not pouring Babbitt anymore with the advent of the new blocks.
Larry Shepard

[Gene F]

The new engines seem like a smart idea. The new engines are scat cranks, with inserts all the way, right?

[Terry Burtz, Calif]

Originally Posted by Gene F

The new engines seem like a smart idea. The new engines are scat cranks, with inserts all the way, right?

No.


SCAT crankshafts have 3 main bearings and 4 counterweights. The main journals are 1.625-inch diameter and the connecting rod journals are 1.500-inch diameter. The inserts used are special and only available from AER.


The new engine crankshaft has 5 main bearings and 8 counterweights. All 9 bearing journals on the new crankshaft are 2.000-inch diameter. The inserts used in the new engine are also used in small block Chevy, 6-cylinder, and 4-cylinder engines and are available at NAPA, O'Reilly's, Amazon, eBay, and any local auto parts store.

[Oldbluoval]

“It helps to have some experience in re babbetting engines.”

Well YEAH …. Not a DIY project…seriously
That is not for a novice in tools, facilities and experience

[GRutter]

Remember also that it's not only the skill in preparing and pouring the babbit - knowledge of the A engine and fixturing is required to maintain correct distance from the cam bore to crank, crank offset to the cylinders etc. The investment in tooling and fixturing would be hard to justify for most owners.

[ETAModel]

I have cast 1000's of lead bullets, some from pure Babbitt 40 years ago. But there's no way I'd attempt to pour rod or main bearings. I've helped a veterinarian spay 100s of dogs and cats, but I'll never try it.

In the immortal words of Clint Eastwood...a man's gotta know his limitations...��

[Gene F]

Sounds even better yet Terry.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Sounds even better yet Terry.

IMO, they are the Holy Grail. Their cost is about the same as having an original engine rebored, bearings poured and machined but with one of these, you have a new and much better designed engine that will probably outlast us.
I believe they are good for 200 hp easily and 5,000 rpm - something beyond the imagination of engineers back in the 1920s.

[ETAModel]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

IMO, they are the Holy Grail. Their cost is about the same as having an original engine rebored, bearings poured and machined but with one of these, you have a new and much better designed engine that will probably outlast us.
I believe they are good for 200 hp easily and 5,000 rpm - something beyond the imagination of engineers back in the 1920s.

I stood so long at Terry's table in Kerrville I thought they would charge me Rent ! The manufacture and tolerances are amazing. I'll say it again. When and if I need a new motor for my Fordor it will be a Burtz. Period.

[David R.]

Been 2 1/2 years now trying to get one done.

[gdmn852]

Hello, on waiting list too for Burtz block , supposed to be getting another order in soon.

[ETAModel]

Terry Burtz said another delivery expected July 1. Its on his thread on here.

[Bokrijder]

David R - Did you check with Schwalms in Strasberg, pa.? They’ve been at it for many years. Though the last I conversed with them, they often are backlogged 6 months out. I have one of their rebuilds, very nice job.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by ETAModel

Terry Burtz said another delivery expected July 1. Its on his thread on here.

I spoke to his fulfillment rep John (forgot his last name) late last week and my recent order will be filled with an August delivery of blocks. John said it will be quite a while after that for the next batch. Great engine, Terry's a great guy who has put an incredible amount of work into this project, and I'm looking forward to this build.

JayJay

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Does anyone know if someone took over after Kronke died?

[cars2cool]

I have heard a rumor his son is going to continue doing the work. But I would suggest you call to find out for sure.

[gdmn852]

Hello, I too have gotten my invoice for Burtz block.Payments on the way.

[Bcontheroad]

Lots of YouTube videos on this lost skill. Including the Hagerty video of Ron's Shop in SW Ohio.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

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This is John Kohnke with Kohnke Rebabbitting Service. I did take over after my dad, Herman passed away. It took 11 months to finish all the work that he had. Since then, work has been all about babbitting various makes and model of cars, and shipping all over the United States. I just finished 1910 Maxwell rods, 1931 dodge, and currently have a1926 oakland, 1921 dodge, and 3 model A's. I don't have time to be in the Ford barn like dad did, but I do get up dates now and then about people asking about what's going on. My turn around time is within 2 weeks or less depending on how big of a job it is. I babbitt all orders in order, so when it's your turn, it gets done. I Don't like stuff sitting around. I also still work on T's (straighten pans ECT) just like dad did. I too am a perfectionist just like he was. This year I followed the Great Race for the last couple states, showed at Iola car show, and will be at Hershey in oct. Thank you guys, John Kohnke with KohnkeRebabbittinService.com
Also business is on Facebook showing my work. New phone number is on website, as old ones are deleted.

[gilitos]

John, you're missing the 'g' in KohnkeRebabbittinService.com! should be KohnkeRebabbittingService.com