Best Source For B Motor Parts

[jeepguy1948]

Where would be a good source for B motor parts? Rods, Bearings, that kind of thing.

[Dodge]

Google Antique Engine Rebuilding.com

[Dan McEachern]

What kind of parts? rod cores or new, repoured, insert??

[Joe K]

Every engine today is a "one-off." One finds the developed defects - and addresses them.

And along the way you get a chance to make "choices." The mechanics of engine construction HAVE improved along the way since 1932.

One of these choices might be going "full insert" instead of the original babbitt bearings. And if you want to go a step beyond this, you get "billet connecting rods." And if you want a step beyond this, you go "full pressure filtered oil supply" and a drilled crank.

I have laid out these steps in some order, but your actual order (feel) on this may vary. As I say - a "one-off."

The advantage of upgrades is well, "upgrade." More power, longer life, more reliability. Another thread I mentioned the Six Million Dollar Man: We can make him better, stronger, etc etc.

The downside to any change you make is cost. The more you do the more it costs.

You have to determine your own cost/benefit evaluation.

Best thing to do going forward is to LISTEN. And you might pick up an issue or two of Charlie Yapp's "Secrets of Speed" publication to see what is actually available.

And there i$ a lot.

A friend just picked up a 1931 Ford Coupe - he has in mind "upgrades" - but apparently keeping the car to external view "stock." I think he wants to pull up to a light and when the light changes - blow the next lane away. He has visions of being in the "Race of Gentlemen" held each year in NJ.

We'll see. The car has now arrived at his shop in cardboard boxes.

This is not a critique. The parts in my shop aren't even in boxes.

Joe K

[Bob Bidonde]

Bert's in Colorado is likely to be a source of Model B parts. Bratton's, Snyder's & Eckler's also have some reproduction parts in their catalogs.

[Dan McEachern]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Stay away from Ecklers- the others are awesome.

[Synchro909]

Try Arizona Model A. Sammy Guthrie 480 782 0266

[jeepguy1948]

I already have the pressure oil/drilled crank and I don’t really need anything right now, I’m just looking to the future. One thing has crossed my mind and I have no idea if it’s possible. The motor is fresh but Babbit was used (I would have preffered insert I think) is it possible to install the rods with insert bearings or does that require machine work on the crank?

[Joe K]

Technically inserts don't have any advantage over cast in place babbitt IF you have a pressure system. The inserts contain the oil passage AND a layer of babbitt inside - just as a cast in place bearing will have.

Inserts CAN have the disadvantage of the possibility of being "spun" which a cast in place bearing normally won't have. Or "blown out" by the oil pressure - although this is rarer.

The best advantage of inserts is "quick replacement." Instead of a re-cast/line bore situation, the line bore is preserved in the block and old bearings (spun or worn) can be replaced in a simple disassembly.

If your crank is drilled to feed the rods, a rod change could be a bought off the shelf item. (sizing?)

Joe K

[johnneilson]

Originally Posted by jeepguy1948

I already have the pressure oil/drilled crank and I don’t really need anything right now, I’m just looking to the future. One thing has crossed my mind and I have no idea if it’s possible. The motor is fresh but Babbit was used (I would have preffered insert I think) is it possible to install the rods with insert bearings or does that require machine work on the crank?

If you have the drilled crank, has the block been prepped for pressure oiling?
part of the process is to open up the oil passages to flow more oil to the crank and block off the front center reliefs.
If you do not have Jim Brierleys book, I suggest getting it before you re-assemble .

John

[johnneilson]

Uhh, blown out by the pressure?
another old wives tale, if done properly is not an issue, I run 100+psi pressure at 7000 rpm, never moved an insert.

Cast in bearing not done properly will suffer failure also

opinions on just replacing inserts when damaged is debatable, is good in theory but may not pan out to well. Afterall, what caused the damage?

In the last 10 years or so I have had 2 B models brought in with spun inserts.
Both times did not require grinding the cranks and was able to alignhone the blocks. The original linebore was not done properly. Both have been runnng for some time now without issue.

The issue I see is having a crank sized properly for inserts. I just had a fella bring a motor over and wanted to convert to inserts. He was told it was a .020 under crank, simple, right? When propery measured, it was .015 and .017 under size. Upon returning from grinder, it was a simple .020 insert bearing assembly.

If you pay attention to the basics you will be fine, nothing magical here.
J

[Joe K]

Johnneilson - thank you for your "Model A world" take on this. My first word was "technically" - and your real world examples were all cases where the technical had somehow been challenged.

My experience with spun/blow out was the 12 Gloucester, MA EMD stationary diesel-generators - which suffered more from creep of the engine block (the foundation of a containerized railroad diesel tends to move around) which we could tell by "measuring the webs" (i.e. rolling the crank and measuring web distance at 180 degrees apart.) For these, a technical challenge presented by their container design. To include tear down within the confines of the container. Air impact wrenches are God's gift to diesel mechanics.

My parting shot on the diesels was moving two of them to the Island of Nantucket - where they served as a landed back-up to the underwater sea cable connecting the island to the mainland grid. I understand that even these have now been scrapped in favor of a "large battery" backup installation.

My last word was "size" - and you closed similarly. Almost into "fine minds think alike."

And yes, nothing magical.

Joe K

[Bob Bidonde]

Insert bearings have a higher compression yield strength due their backing metal. Insert bearings have a superior fatigue life than Babbitt bearings. Overall, modern insert bearings are superior to poured Babbitt bearings.

[jeepguy1948]

My motor is set up for pressure oiling. I do not currently have a bearing problem. I am trying to ask a hypothetical question which all though some good information has been provided has not been answered. There is always a problem on the forums which is that people do not read the thread all the way back to the beginning and do not know the context or maybe not even the original question. My question is “can new rods for a B motor that have insert bearings such as Bert’s sells be installed in a B motor that has pressure oiling and a drilled crank. I am not skiing about the main bearings, just the rods. I will repeat myself (again) I do not currently have a problem that needs fixing I am asking a hypothetical question. I have Jim’s book. I also have Jim’s cylinder head and Jim’s cam. I am dealing with a B motor not an A motor and so the context is different. John, I don’t know where you shop is but if it was within a reasonable distance of Seattle I would without come to you. I have no doubt you are nowhere near Seattle. We no longer have a machine shop that know’s anything about Banger motors anywhere around here. That makes it difficult. Shipping a motor is expensive and just prepping and loading it for shipping is a hassle.

[Terry Burtz, Calif]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

Insert bearings have a higher compression yield strength due their backing metal. Insert bearings have a superior fatigue life than Babbitt bearings. Overall, modern insert bearings are superior to poured Babbitt bearings.

I agree and would like to ad that insert bearings are not that new.

My 1947 Federal Mogul catalog shows that 1918 Caterpillar tractors used them.

Chevrolet used them for main bearings in 1929.

The Dodge "Fast Four" of 1927, a four cylinder flat head design similar to a Model A engine, had a 5 main bearing crankshaft and used inserts for both main and rod bearings.

[johnneilson]

So a couple comments here;
Yes inserts are not new there was a Volvo rod bearing from ‘40’s that makes a great fit into modded B rods
Finding them is the challenge

The devil is in the details
I recall seeing the proper journal dimensions posted on line with/where the rods and bearings are sold
Aside from proper clearance (dia and corner rad) is the dipper hole in the cap of the rod
Of the am rods I have installed the inserts were supplied half with holes half solid
If drilled crank and pressurized the solid shell is used to block dipper

I no longer do any work except interesting race or antique units
With the available new mod A from Terry it makes no sense to do anything else
J

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by Dan McEachern

Stay away from Ecklers- the others are awesome.

Isn't Ecklers, and mac's the same outfit? I know in the streetrod world everyone says stay away from The Hoffman Group (they own several outlets).

[WRA]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Isn't Ecklers, and mac's the same outfit? I know in the streetrod world everyone says stay away from The Hoffman Group (they own several outlets).

Yes, and not the Macs of yesteryear. Lots of discussion and general warnings about all things Ecklers. This is across the automotive spectrum from Model Ts to Trucks and Corvettes

Involuntary back orders, inflated shipping, incorrect and incomplete orders are common. Customer service has become notoriously bad if not completely inaccessible. I have experienced all of these and will no longer do business with anything Ecklers.