The Ford Barn

Russ/40 · 01-19-2020, 06:25 PM

I am building a 81A block. Cam choices, because I have them, Schneider 248 and a Isky 77B. Car is a 40 sedan with 3/78 gears, Merc crank, single 97. Stock iron heads. I know the 77b is almost as stock, but would someone who knows these cams describe the nature of the 248 compared to the 77B?

Bored&Stroked · 01-19-2020, 06:49 PM

Well, the duration is the same for both 220 degrees at .050 -- the 77B only lifts about .325, while I believe the 248F lifts .350. When I sent to Schneider's site - they showed two different lift options . . . one about .320 and the other .350. Truth be told, I'd probably not run either of them - they are very mild cams (but hey, I know - you have them). I'd much rather see you use an Isky 1007B - would sound good and run well . . . and to me, I like BOTH in a period car.

KiWinUS · 01-19-2020, 07:19 PM

Any one that has ever “honesty “ used one would recommend an L-100
Cheers
Tony

Bored&Stroked · 01-19-2020, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

Any one that has ever “honesty “ used one would recommend an L-100
Cheers
Tony

I gotta ask Tony . . . how do you "dishonestly" use an L-100??

Ol' Ron · 01-20-2020, 10:00 AM

Having used "Many L-100 cams, I can "Honestly" say: they don't work very well in a relatively stock engine. Having too mucj duration and overlap, which kills low end torque. These cams need some displacement and compression o replace that. They run well in bigger engines. However if you want a beter cam try the Isky 1007B. But I gess if you already have these other cams, either on should work OK

drolston · 01-20-2020, 11:51 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Can't compare to the Isky, but the Schneider 248f I run in my 284 inch flathead is very good in traffic, and has the low end torque needed to perform very well with the 3.25 rear end gears I have in my '41 coupe.

Russ/40 · 01-20-2020, 01:49 PM

Thank you for your advice and perspectives.

Ol' Ron · 01-20-2020, 06:37 PM

I would think any cam would run well in a 284 ci engine. But in a stock engine you have to be conservative.

Zeke3 · 01-20-2020, 08:36 PM

I understand Ol Ron's comments much better after reading the first half of JWL's book "Flathead Facts".

Ziggster · 01-20-2020, 08:48 PM

I have the 1007B, but it will be a few months before I can get the engine up and running. Hope it works on a stk engine (C59A) with just a 0.060" overbore.

Ol' Ron · 01-20-2020, 11:52 PM

The best modification you can make to a stock or mild modified engine is piston to head clearance. This increases the turbulence in the chamber and better combustion. This improved fuel mileage and better throttle response. Plus, it's not that expensive.

Ziggster · 01-21-2020, 04:03 AM

Good to know. I have the factory relieved heads. I think compression ratio is about 7.3:1 with my 0.060" o reborn according to the big chart someone made a while back.

Ol' Ron · 01-21-2020, 07:53 AM

Those charts are for reference only. You actually have to measure the chambers to determine the CR. In my book I measured a dozen or so heads and they were all over the place. Another consideration is the difference between Static and Dynamic compression. This is determined by the closing of the intake valve. An L-100 cam drops an 8: 1 CR to around 6:1. Good reason to have more cubes.

Bored&Stroked · 01-21-2020, 12:44 PM

Post was off topic . . . so I deleted it. Sorry bout that!

Russ/40 · 01-21-2020, 01:43 PM

Ok guys and gals, a simple attempt to gather info to assist me in choosing between two cams, seems to have become a tutorial on building an engine. I'm sure many need and value this information, but I am familiar with the issues brought to light and familiar with building V8 flatheads. My only request, was for a cam comparison. Can we stick to the question asked.

tubman · 01-21-2020, 05:13 PM

OK. I don't see why anyone, after looking at the specs of all cams available for your engine, would even consider the 77B. I went through this a couple of years ago when I was deciding whether to put an Isky MAX-1 in the '51 Merc engine I put in my '51 Ford Club Coupe. After a bunch of research (including this site : https://www.tildentechnologies.com/C...erformance.htm, I decided to keep the stock 8CM cam. From the overall experience since then, I believe I made the correct choice.

Also, I am in complete agreement with "Ol' Ron" about taking care of the heads FIRST.

Russ/40 · 01-22-2020, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

OK.

Also, I am in complete agreement with "Ol' Ron" about taking care of the heads FIRST.

You won't know what the heads need until the cam and valves are in.

Tim Ayers · 01-22-2020, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ/40

You won't know what the heads need until the cam and valves are in.

You can certainly check space above the pistons (squish) before the cam. Unless you change the pistons, that should be consistent.

Russ/40 · 01-22-2020, 12:19 PM

Yes, you could check it, but why do it twice. Suggest you view my tutorial on the original Techno site where i moderated for Bill.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160318...g/clayhead.htm

Wait for photos to load, as they are archived.

philipswanson · 01-22-2020, 02:17 PM

Russ/40. Great information on measuring valve to head clearances. Thanks for posting it.

Tim Ayers · 01-22-2020, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ/40

Yes, you could check it, but why do it twice. Suggest you view my tutorial on the original Techno site where i moderated for Bill.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160318...g/clayhead.htm

Wait for photos to load, as they are archived.

Got it.

Ol' Ron · 01-22-2020, 06:28 PM

I like t use aluminum balls. They retain their shape and are easier to measure, giving a more accurate results. I used clay for many years, but found the alum balls better and easier to use. I don't think the piston dome shape inrelation to the dome in the head is important in a street engine just get the pottom edge of the piston to head clearance down to around .040.,050, SBC is .o35.

40 Deluxe · 01-23-2020, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Having used "Many L-100 cams, I can "Honestly" say: they don't work very well in a relatively stock engine. Having too mucj duration and overlap, which kills low end torque. These cams need some displacement and compression o replace that. They run well in bigger engines. However if you want a beter cam try the Isky 1007B. But I gess if you already have these other cams, either on should work OK

I've heard the L-100 described as the "smiley cam". Does this mean it has a nice lopey idle, but is not a good cam for a street car?

Ol' Ron · 01-23-2020, 08:33 AM

Yes, the sound is exceptionally well liked as the sound of a flathead. Installed in a large displacement , hi compression engine and properly tuned. I can give excellent fuel economy as well as excellent power in a heavy car.. The biggest problems with most builds is improper tuning. This has been solved by both Bubba and Charley NY. Unfortunately, after spending many$$$$$$, they don't tunne them properly. The "tuning of a flathead" has ben discussed on this forun a dozen times, and it works.

KiWinUS · 01-23-2020, 09:17 AM

Here is Bryan Kilsby"s stunning car, I believe he has over 10,000 miles on this awesome sounding & running engine. Idles @ 600 rpm .
Enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXvnDP25924

philipswanson · 01-23-2020, 11:13 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

[QUOTE=Ol' Ron;1844355]I like t use aluminum balls.

Where from? Aluminum foil?

KiWinUS · 01-23-2020, 11:49 AM

Correct Phillip

shoe box Jack · 01-23-2020, 12:00 PM

I have an isky 77B in my 49 ford with 260 ci. 378 gear I have 127000 miles on this build and all is good. I would use this cam on my next build. Jack.

Zeke3 · 01-23-2020, 01:29 PM

Kiwi, that is a sweet sounding engine and the cars looks great also. I was thinking that would make some inspirational background music for the shop.

Tim Ayers · 01-23-2020, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoe box Jack

I have an isky 77B in my 49 ford with 260 ci. 378 gear I have 127000 miles on this build and all is good. I would use this cam on my next build. Jack.

Hey Jack,

To confirm, you has 127,000 or 12,700 miles?

If it's 127,000, that's impressive.

frnkeore · 01-23-2020, 03:01 PM

A 400 Jr, for comparison. I think he could have got it to idle a little lower though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pCzCktcif8

40 Deluxe · 01-23-2020, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Yes, the sound is exceptionally well liked as the sound of a flathead. Installed in a large displacement , hi compression engine and properly tuned. I can give excellent fuel economy as well as excellent power in a heavy car.. The biggest problems with most builds is improper tuning. This has been solved by both Bubba and Charley NY. Unfortunately, after spending many$$$$$$, they don't tunne them properly. The "tuning of a flathead" has ben discussed on this forun a dozen times, and it works.

Thanks, Ron I'm building a 296 with either 81A or EAB heads (depends on which block I use) for my '40 sedan. Would the L-100 work on the street?

john in illinois · 01-23-2020, 05:16 PM

Russ I have a Schneider 248 f in my roadster. Have a .325 rear end.
I am very happy with the way this cam drives. It will putt along on country roads and has a lot of power on the Highway
John

Bored&Stroked · 01-23-2020, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Thanks, Ron I'm building a 296 with either 81A or EAB heads (depends on which block I use) for my '40 sedan. Would the L-100 work on the street?

Yes - you have enough cubic inches to make it work well. What compression ratio are you headed toward? Mill the heads and get .040 over the pistons - makes a big difference. If you're in a light enough car (sedan might not be it) and have the right gears, could even go to a Potvin 425.

KiWinUS · 01-23-2020, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke3

Kiwi, that is a sweet sounding engine and the cars looks great also. I was thinking that would make some inspirational background music for the shop.

Mate that’s a great idea. It sure is a sweet sound. Runs bad as also

Ol' Ron · 01-23-2020, 11:26 PM

It does sound good, but it's running awful rich. The biggest problem I have with 97 carbs is tuning them for economy. The best carb I;ve found is the 500 cfm Edelbrock. Richard gor 22 mpg wiyh the 276 in a 3800l 53 Ht. AF i n cruise was 15.5, 13 at WOT and an L-100 cam

shoe box Jack · 01-24-2020, 11:16 AM

HI Tim, Yeas I have 127000 miles on the car I have owned the car for 20 years we are both retired and when I bought the car I rebuilt the car bumper to bumper we attend 2 cruse nights a week and 1 or 2 car shows every weekend we will take a week and go on a week or so trip. As you can see we use the car a lot and have some trips planed for this sumer. Jack.

Tim Ayers · 01-24-2020, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoe box Jack

HI Tim, Yeas I have 127000 miles on the car I have owned the car for 20 years we are both retired and when I bought the car I rebuilt the car bumper to bumper we attend 2 cruse nights a week and 1 or 2 car shows every weekend we will take a week and go on a week or so trip. As you can see we use the car a lot and have some trips planed for this sumer. Jack.

That's awesome!

01-19-2020, 06:25 PM	#1
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Which Cam I am building a 81A block. Cam choices, because I have them, Schneider 248 and a Isky 77B. Car is a 40 sedan with 3/78 gears, Merc crank, single 97. Stock iron heads. I know the 77b is almost as stock, but would someone who knows these cams describe the nature of the 248 compared to the 77B?

01-19-2020, 06:49 PM	#2
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,062	Re: Which Cam Well, the duration is the same for both 220 degrees at .050 -- the 77B only lifts about .325, while I believe the 248F lifts .350. When I sent to Schneider's site - they showed two different lift options . . . one about .320 and the other .350. Truth be told, I'd probably not run either of them - they are very mild cams (but hey, I know - you have them). I'd much rather see you use an Isky 1007B - would sound good and run well . . . and to me, I like BOTH in a period car.

01-19-2020, 07:19 PM	#3
KiWinUS Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Charlotte NC KiWi-L100 available here Posts: 2,954	Re: Which Cam Any one that has ever “honesty “ used one would recommend an L-100 Cheers Tony

01-20-2020, 10:00 AM	#5
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,857	Re: Which Cam Having used "Many L-100 cams, I can "Honestly" say: they don't work very well in a relatively stock engine. Having too mucj duration and overlap, which kills low end torque. These cams need some displacement and compression o replace that. They run well in bigger engines. However if you want a beter cam try the Isky 1007B. But I gess if you already have these other cams, either on should work OK

01-20-2020, 11:51 AM	#6
drolston Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Williamsburg, VA Posts: 1,627	Re: Which Cam Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Can't compare to the Isky, but the Schneider 248f I run in my 284 inch flathead is very good in traffic, and has the low end torque needed to perform very well with the 3.25 rear end gears I have in my '41 coupe.

01-20-2020, 01:49 PM	#7
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: Which Cam Thank you for your advice and perspectives.

01-20-2020, 06:37 PM	#8
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,857	Re: Which Cam I would think any cam would run well in a 284 ci engine. But in a stock engine you have to be conservative.

01-20-2020, 08:36 PM	#9
Zeke3 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Columbus, IN Posts: 1,406	Re: Which Cam I understand Ol Ron's comments much better after reading the first half of JWL's book "Flathead Facts".

01-20-2020, 08:48 PM	#10
Ziggster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 850	Re: Which Cam I have the 1007B, but it will be a few months before I can get the engine up and running. Hope it works on a stk engine (C59A) with just a 0.060" overbore.

01-20-2020, 11:52 PM	#11
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,857	Re: Which Cam The best modification you can make to a stock or mild modified engine is piston to head clearance. This increases the turbulence in the chamber and better combustion. This improved fuel mileage and better throttle response. Plus, it's not that expensive.

01-21-2020, 04:03 AM	#12
Ziggster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 850	Re: Which Cam Good to know. I have the factory relieved heads. I think compression ratio is about 7.3:1 with my 0.060" o reborn according to the big chart someone made a while back.

01-21-2020, 07:53 AM	#13
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,857	Re: Which Cam Those charts are for reference only. You actually have to measure the chambers to determine the CR. In my book I measured a dozen or so heads and they were all over the place. Another consideration is the difference between Static and Dynamic compression. This is determined by the closing of the intake valve. An L-100 cam drops an 8: 1 CR to around 6:1. Good reason to have more cubes.

01-21-2020, 12:44 PM	#14
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,062	Re: Which Cam Post was off topic . . . so I deleted it. Sorry bout that! Last edited by Bored&Stroked; 01-21-2020 at 03:43 PM.

01-21-2020, 01:43 PM	#15
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: Which Cam Ok guys and gals, a simple attempt to gather info to assist me in choosing between two cams, seems to have become a tutorial on building an engine. I'm sure many need and value this information, but I am familiar with the issues brought to light and familiar with building V8 flatheads. My only request, was for a cam comparison. Can we stick to the question asked.

01-21-2020, 05:13 PM	#16
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,303	Re: Which Cam OK. I don't see why anyone, after looking at the specs of all cams available for your engine, would even consider the 77B. I went through this a couple of years ago when I was deciding whether to put an Isky MAX-1 in the '51 Merc engine I put in my '51 Ford Club Coupe. After a bunch of research (including this site : https://www.tildentechnologies.com/C...erformance.htm, I decided to keep the stock 8CM cam. From the overall experience since then, I believe I made the correct choice. Also, I am in complete agreement with "Ol' Ron" about taking care of the heads FIRST.

01-22-2020, 12:19 PM	#19
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: Which Cam Yes, you could check it, but why do it twice. Suggest you view my tutorial on the original Techno site where i moderated for Bill. https://web.archive.org/web/20160318...g/clayhead.htm Wait for photos to load, as they are archived.

01-22-2020, 02:17 PM	#20
philipswanson Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Bonita, CA Posts: 1,374	Re: Which Cam Russ/40. Great information on measuring valve to head clearances. Thanks for posting it.

01-22-2020, 06:28 PM	#22
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,857	Re: Which Cam I like t use aluminum balls. They retain their shape and are easier to measure, giving a more accurate results. I used clay for many years, but found the alum balls better and easier to use. I don't think the piston dome shape inrelation to the dome in the head is important in a street engine just get the pottom edge of the piston to head clearance down to around .040.,050, SBC is .o35.

01-23-2020, 08:33 AM	#24
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,857	Re: Which Cam Yes, the sound is exceptionally well liked as the sound of a flathead. Installed in a large displacement , hi compression engine and properly tuned. I can give excellent fuel economy as well as excellent power in a heavy car.. The biggest problems with most builds is improper tuning. This has been solved by both Bubba and Charley NY. Unfortunately, after spending many$$$$$$, they don't tunne them properly. The "tuning of a flathead" has ben discussed on this forun a dozen times, and it works.

01-23-2020, 09:17 AM	#25
KiWinUS Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Charlotte NC KiWi-L100 available here Posts: 2,954	Re: Which Cam Here is Bryan Kilsby"s stunning car, I believe he has over 10,000 miles on this awesome sounding & running engine. Idles @ 600 rpm . Enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXvnDP25924

01-23-2020, 11:13 AM	#26
philipswanson Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Bonita, CA Posts: 1,374	Re: Which Cam Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) [QUOTE=Ol' Ron;1844355]I like t use aluminum balls. Where from? Aluminum foil?

01-23-2020, 11:49 AM	#27
KiWinUS Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Charlotte NC KiWi-L100 available here Posts: 2,954	Re: Which Cam Correct Phillip

01-23-2020, 12:00 PM	#28
shoe box Jack Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Kingston Ontario Canada Posts: 249	Re: Which Cam I have an isky 77B in my 49 ford with 260 ci. 378 gear I have 127000 miles on this build and all is good. I would use this cam on my next build. Jack.

01-23-2020, 01:29 PM	#29
Zeke3 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Columbus, IN Posts: 1,406	Re: Which Cam Kiwi, that is a sweet sounding engine and the cars looks great also. I was thinking that would make some inspirational background music for the shop.

01-23-2020, 03:01 PM	#31
frnkeore Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 782	Re: Which Cam A 400 Jr, for comparison. I think he could have got it to idle a little lower though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pCzCktcif8 __________________ Frank '35 Ford Model 51 '48 Ford F3 '54 Ford Tudor Mainline

01-23-2020, 05:16 PM	#33
john in illinois Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 2,183	Re: Which Cam Russ I have a Schneider 248 f in my roadster. Have a .325 rear end. I am very happy with the way this cam drives. It will putt along on country roads and has a lot of power on the Highway John __________________ Welcome each day Last edited by john in illinois; 01-23-2020 at 05:22 PM.

01-23-2020, 11:26 PM	#36
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,857	Re: Which Cam It does sound good, but it's running awful rich. The biggest problem I have with 97 carbs is tuning them for economy. The best carb I;ve found is the 500 cfm Edelbrock. Richard gor 22 mpg wiyh the 276 in a 3800l 53 Ht. AF i n cruise was 15.5, 13 at WOT and an L-100 cam

01-24-2020, 11:16 AM	#37
shoe box Jack Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Kingston Ontario Canada Posts: 249	Re: Which Cam HI Tim, Yeas I have 127000 miles on the car I have owned the car for 20 years we are both retired and when I bought the car I rebuilt the car bumper to bumper we attend 2 cruse nights a week and 1 or 2 car shows every weekend we will take a week and go on a week or so trip. As you can see we use the car a lot and have some trips planed for this sumer. Jack.