The Ford Barn

4tford · 01-14-2015, 09:47 AM

I have received an engine here that has about 200 miles on a full rebuild. After the 200 miles the block was found to have fatal problems and a fresh block is required. Question is, am I able to re-use the piston rings in the new block. Pistons and rings are .045 Everything else looks good and will be swapped to the new block. Thanks Bill

alchemy · 01-14-2015, 09:50 AM

I'd think that after 200 miles the rings would have done most of their break-in of the last block. Probably not the best to use in breaking in the new block. And rings are cheap enough that it's a no-brainer to just replace them.

Ol' Ron · 01-14-2015, 10:34 AM

That's a crap shoot Bill, might work, might not.

Ronnie · 01-14-2015, 10:38 AM

Bill in the fatal engine analysis just include a new set of rings and a flex hone operation to deg-laze and have a happy customer.If you don't do this anything that happens after the repair you will be hung out to dry.Just put new rings into it and have a satisfied customer that will give you future referrals,as opposed to having a pissing contest. Never mind what some of the keyboard jockeys are going to tell you.
Just treat the rings as a casualty.You know where i am coming from.

Just what is the damage report cause?

R

4tford · 01-14-2015, 11:14 AM

The engine was originally built in the early to mid 60's and had severe overheating from day one. After 200 miles it was pulled and replaced with a small block chebby. It was placed in a shed and never touched again until I bought it. I disassembled and did plastigage etc. and everything seemed fine. Had the block sonic tested and a drastic core shift was found. One wall was less than .070" Original bore was 3.0625. (3-1/16) When I measured after taking it apart it was 3.230 or 3-3/16 + .045. Also the area just above the guide was clean on all the intakes was nice and clean. Above the exhaust guides was full of rust and heavy carbon. No rubber seals on the intake guides. Question now is where to find .045 rings.

Ronnie · 01-14-2015, 12:06 PM

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Bill the last machinist bored to 3.1875 + .040 = 3.2275 + clearance & wear .0025 = 3.230
Put the new.040 over in there.

R

Mart · 01-14-2015, 12:39 PM

There are a lot of army surplus +.045 pistons with rings available over here (for some reason). There are some on ebay UK now. I was able to buy a set of rings a few years ago but that trader is no longer trading. Not sure where I would get some from now, but they do exist. In your case, I would be tempted to just bore the replacement block to +.045 and throw the existing pistons in with their existing rings. Bang it back together and drive it mercilessly.

Oh yeah, maybe not directly relevant but I did once try and use +.040 rings in a used +.045 bore. I don't know whether it was the ring size mismatch or improper bore preparation, but that one smoked like a tramp steamer. That was when I got the +.045 rings, rehoned it and it was ok after.

Mart.

supereal · 01-14-2015, 06:05 PM

We never reuse rings or valve springs, Any savings is insignificant compared to having to tear down a freshly built engine due to uneven compression and/or oil consumption.After spending big bucks for a full rebuild, good shops furnish a written warranty. Reusing rings, bearings, etc, makes that not worth the paper it is written on.

4t8v8 · 01-14-2015, 11:15 PM

A new set of rings is much cheaper than tearing it down again. I'd rather not say how I know this. Listen to Ol' Ron. Crap shoot at best.

jetmek · 01-15-2015, 02:39 AM

From what im getting out of your post, the engine is simply overbored causing the overheating issue. 3 1/16 bore engines seldom tolerate more than 060 over.

Russ/40 · 01-15-2015, 11:43 AM

You said "severe overheating" that alone says trash those rings.

woodiewagon46 · 01-15-2015, 12:39 PM

4tford, the last time I looked, piston ring sets were about $75. Are you willing to go thru all this trouble for 75 bucks?

4tford · 01-15-2015, 01:21 PM

I have no intention of building a motor I have to tear apart again. I asked the question due to the low miles on the rings and the fact they still "feel" very sharp.I was hoping to transfer all the parts from the old block to a fresh one. I will be using new pistons and rings. Up until now I have never considered re-using rings. As for cost, your $75 rings end up costing me close to double that by the time I convert all costs to Canadian $$ and add in shipping at the sellers end and then two taxes and postal handling charge at my end. Thanks to all who replied, I will be using new pistons and rings in the fresh block. Bill

JSeery · 01-15-2015, 01:56 PM

I certainly agree on the rings, but why are you replacing the pistons? Are they damaged?

4tford · 01-15-2015, 02:15 PM

the last time I needed .045 I had to get Grant to resize a set as special order. Again extra $$$ up here.

scooder · 01-15-2015, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetmek

From what im getting out of your post, the engine is simply overbored causing the overheating issue. 3 1/16 bore engines seldom tolerate more than 060 over.

Only the early ones, 37 and up will normally go 0.125" over, from what I've seen and heard.
Martin.

Kube · 01-15-2015, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supereal

we never reuse rings or valve springs, any savings is insignificant compared to having to tear down a freshly built engine due to uneven compression and/or oil consumption.after spending big bucks for a full rebuild, good shops furnish a written warranty. Reusing rings, bearings, etc, makes that not worth the paper it is written on.

bingo!

El Rat · 01-15-2015, 03:03 PM

Just for giggles put a top ring in the bore, down an inch or so, and shine a light from underneath. When you look down on this setup (you might have to put a circuliar piece of cardboard in the center) you will have an answer to your question.

if it still has tension and the OD isn't hexagonal it will work just fine.

01-14-2015, 09:47 AM	#1
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	block issues and re-using rings I have received an engine here that has about 200 miles on a full rebuild. After the 200 miles the block was found to have fatal problems and a fresh block is required. Question is, am I able to re-use the piston rings in the new block. Pistons and rings are .045 Everything else looks good and will be swapped to the new block. Thanks Bill

01-14-2015, 09:50 AM	#2
alchemy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: middle of Iowa Posts: 647	Re: block issues and re-using rings I'd think that after 200 miles the rings would have done most of their break-in of the last block. Probably not the best to use in breaking in the new block. And rings are cheap enough that it's a no-brainer to just replace them.

01-14-2015, 10:34 AM	#3
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,861	Re: block issues and re-using rings That's a crap shoot Bill, might work, might not.

01-14-2015, 10:38 AM	#4
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: block issues and re-using rings Bill in the fatal engine analysis just include a new set of rings and a flex hone operation to deg-laze and have a happy customer.If you don't do this anything that happens after the repair you will be hung out to dry.Just put new rings into it and have a satisfied customer that will give you future referrals,as opposed to having a pissing contest. Never mind what some of the keyboard jockeys are going to tell you. Just treat the rings as a casualty.You know where i am coming from. Just what is the damage report cause? R

01-14-2015, 11:14 AM	#5
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	Re: block issues and re-using rings The engine was originally built in the early to mid 60's and had severe overheating from day one. After 200 miles it was pulled and replaced with a small block chebby. It was placed in a shed and never touched again until I bought it. I disassembled and did plastigage etc. and everything seemed fine. Had the block sonic tested and a drastic core shift was found. One wall was less than .070" Original bore was 3.0625. (3-1/16) When I measured after taking it apart it was 3.230 or 3-3/16 + .045. Also the area just above the guide was clean on all the intakes was nice and clean. Above the exhaust guides was full of rust and heavy carbon. No rubber seals on the intake guides. Question now is where to find .045 rings.

01-14-2015, 12:06 PM	#6
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: block issues and re-using rings Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Bill the last machinist bored to 3.1875 + .040 = 3.2275 + clearance & wear .0025 = 3.230 Put the new.040 over in there. R Last edited by Ronnie; 01-14-2015 at 12:16 PM.

01-14-2015, 12:39 PM	#7
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,756	Re: block issues and re-using rings There are a lot of army surplus +.045 pistons with rings available over here (for some reason). There are some on ebay UK now. I was able to buy a set of rings a few years ago but that trader is no longer trading. Not sure where I would get some from now, but they do exist. In your case, I would be tempted to just bore the replacement block to +.045 and throw the existing pistons in with their existing rings. Bang it back together and drive it mercilessly. Oh yeah, maybe not directly relevant but I did once try and use +.040 rings in a used +.045 bore. I don't know whether it was the ring size mismatch or improper bore preparation, but that one smoked like a tramp steamer. That was when I got the +.045 rings, rehoned it and it was ok after. Mart.

01-14-2015, 06:05 PM	#8
supereal Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	Re: block issues and re-using rings We never reuse rings or valve springs, Any savings is insignificant compared to having to tear down a freshly built engine due to uneven compression and/or oil consumption.After spending big bucks for a full rebuild, good shops furnish a written warranty. Reusing rings, bearings, etc, makes that not worth the paper it is written on.

01-14-2015, 11:15 PM	#9
4t8v8 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 524	Re: block issues and re-using rings A new set of rings is much cheaper than tearing it down again. I'd rather not say how I know this. Listen to Ol' Ron. Crap shoot at best.

01-15-2015, 02:39 AM	#10
jetmek Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: albany Posts: 466	Re: block issues and re-using rings From what im getting out of your post, the engine is simply overbored causing the overheating issue. 3 1/16 bore engines seldom tolerate more than 060 over. __________________ engine and component overhauls my specialty! Website- www.godevilgarage.com

01-15-2015, 11:43 AM	#11
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: block issues and re-using rings You said "severe overheating" that alone says trash those rings.

01-15-2015, 12:39 PM	#12
woodiewagon46 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Long Island,NY Posts: 1,555	Re: block issues and re-using rings 4tford, the last time I looked, piston ring sets were about $75. Are you willing to go thru all this trouble for 75 bucks?

01-15-2015, 01:21 PM	#13
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	Re: block issues and re-using rings I have no intention of building a motor I have to tear apart again. I asked the question due to the low miles on the rings and the fact they still "feel" very sharp.I was hoping to transfer all the parts from the old block to a fresh one. I will be using new pistons and rings. Up until now I have never considered re-using rings. As for cost, your $75 rings end up costing me close to double that by the time I convert all costs to Canadian $$ and add in shipping at the sellers end and then two taxes and postal handling charge at my end. Thanks to all who replied, I will be using new pistons and rings in the fresh block. Bill

01-15-2015, 01:56 PM	#14
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: block issues and re-using rings I certainly agree on the rings, but why are you replacing the pistons? Are they damaged?

01-15-2015, 02:15 PM	#15
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	Re: block issues and re-using rings the last time I needed .045 I had to get Grant to resize a set as special order. Again extra $$$ up here.

01-15-2015, 03:03 PM	#18
El Rat Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 260	Re: block issues and re-using rings Just for giggles put a top ring in the bore, down an inch or so, and shine a light from underneath. When you look down on this setup (you might have to put a circuliar piece of cardboard in the center) you will have an answer to your question. if it still has tension and the OD isn't hexagonal it will work just fine.