Stainless buffing question

[sjhark]

I started polishing my stainless parts this winter. The head light and cowl light buckets polished up beautifully, but I'm having problems all of a sudden. I started noticing minute pitting as I polished things. My process is to first hit the parts with 220-600 grit sand paper and then polishing with a stainless compound on a spiral-sewn buffing wheel, followed by a white rouge on a flannel wheel. The pictures are of a mirror head, but I've encountered it on the upper stanchions and the top rests, also. I've tried new buffing wheels, new compound, less pressure against the wheel and cleaning the wheel with a rake, but it keeps coming back. I also make sure to not mix wheels and compounds. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? (P.S. The process hasn't been completed in the pictures, so disregard the scratches!)

[J Franklin]

Chinese stainless? I note you said the Ford made stuff came out great.

[figment]

I think that 600 as the final sanding is to coarse . i would possible go up to 1000 grit or more then buff . Norm

[sjhark]

The pits appear to be dents, actually. It's something in my process, as the pits (dents) follow the direction of travel of my wheel. And they show up regardless of whether I use sand paper or not. It's very frustrating!

[J Franklin]

It is the metal that is your problem. Try less aggressive measures and see what you get. I use white and red rouge. Don't overheat the work either.

[Synchro909]

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I agree about less aggressive. If they're original ones, these bits are about 90 years old. What does a few more minutes mean now?
Also, don't allow the metal to get hot or it will distort (stretch). I can only assume the compound I use is available over there (I don't use paper). See if you can get some Lee (or maybe Leigh) compound. It is a stick of abrasive material that is applied to the wheel and it will remove scratches etc like that so long as the metal is capable of taking a good polish.

[michael a]

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[sjhark]

J Franklin: I have to assume the metal is Ford metal; I know it's been on the car at least since the 70's for sure. Do you use the white compound as the finish, or the red?
Synchro909: I'll have to look and see what brand of stick I use. I started off with a cheap green stick that I got from Sears many years ago for the light buckets, but used it all up. Then I used a stainless stick from Eastwood and that's when the problem started. I then switched to a stainless stick from our local paint shop and it's still happening.

[J Franklin]

I sand with 800 or finer if I sand at all, my final buffs are with red rouge. I've never seen a factory side mirror, or one made of stainless, but what do I know. They may be supplied by outside companies using a different grade of stainless steel.

[Wick]

Keep the wheel clean I've been told. That advice I was given by a ol'Timer and has made a difference in my work.

[Big hammer]

Looking at your pictures and blowing them up, it looks like the pits lineup from the scratches. Less aggressive paper, if needed, then buffing. Have you tried just buffing first?
I’ve used white scotch bright pads with soap and then buffing and had good results!

[billy myers]

da sander lock sander so it does not occellate and spins like a grinder 320 grit black then white try it been doing this since the sixtys problem solved take u no time got to use good amount of rogue and get warm

[Synchro909]

SJ, Lee compound is not a brand. I guess it is made by many - it is a type of abrasive stick. A decent machinery supply house should either have it or be able to tell you where you can get it. Maybe an electroplating supply business?
The ones I use are about 1 1/2" diameter and brown in colour.

[Oldbluoval]

I often get rouge burned on the material being polished. I know you have to get the metal hot to buff....but not too hot. The burned on rouge is then the dickens to get off. Comments, please.
As to pitting, I have run across original grill shells that showed some pitting and would not polish out. It appeared to be in the metal and don't know if it was at time of mfg or some environmental thingy in the years since; it did appear to be overall and not just top surface.

[duke36]

Here's what we do,much as has been stated already:
1. Depending on material thickness and type of part, very fine file, followed by 320,600, 1200 or 1500 grit (wet if desired). 1 head light shell can take hours.
2. Bumping from back side to remove dents and /or pressure to work out material to get a little higher ( but not much) than surrounding area to level then ,sanding. Nail emery board paper type files work great on curves.
3.10" course stitched wheel at not to high rpm to reduce burning
4.White rouge for stainless, small areas at one time to reduce discoloration
5.Green rough for final polish with unstitched wheel
6.Clean parts between rouges .Decharge wheels with flat bar stock or fine file to remove rouge buildup periodically.
7.Some of Ford's metal seems to be imperfect and small pits may appear with deeper sanding and polishing.
Note: Rouges are designed for different metals, and brown and black are not recommended for stainless.

[figment]

A safety item should include a long pair of leather gloves that go above the wrists . I had a friend almost lose a hand with just a headlamp bucket . Norm

[Tinbasher]

Looks like your pulling up the surface of the Stainless. I'd try finishing finer with the sandpaper and then white compound going lite with the pressure.

JP

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by sjhark

J Franklin: I have to assume the metal is Ford metal; I know it's been on the car at least since the 70's for sure. Do you use the white compound as the finish, or the red?
Synchro909: I'll have to look and see what brand of stick I use. I started off with a cheap green stick that I got from Sears many years ago for the light buckets, but used it all up. Then I used a stainless stick from Eastwood and that's when the problem started. I then switched to a stainless stick from our local paint shop and it's still happening.

Eastwood sells lot of different polishing sticks.
I've also found even more/bigger sticks at harbor freight.

[Bob Bidonde]

You can be sure that the Ford Motor Company didn't mass produce the shiny stainless we strive for in our restorations.

[BillCNC]

200-600 paper is what you use to apply paint as it leaves a semi-ruff texture for the paint to grab.

For polishing you'll need to wet sand with paper in the 1000-2000 range, THEN move into creams used with a polishing cloth.

Regards
Bill

[woodiewagon46]

The part you are trying to polish looks like a reproduction part. There are something like 26 or 28 grades of stainless steel ranging from S.S. used in knives and forks to almost non destructible jet engine parts. The more chromium in the part the better the shine. You don't know what S.S. was used in your part, nor do you know if it was annealed to allow the part to be formed. The pictures show a lot of "pitting" and scratches and just might be another case of "Chinese" junk. You may be "chasing your tail".

[super flat]

Can we assume you are wet sanding? You also need finer paper and lots of elbow grease.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

You can be sure that the Ford Motor Company didn't mass produce the shiny stainless we strive for in our restorations.

Another nail hit on the head! We tend to over restore our cars.

[sjhark]

I have been dry sanding, followed by a good wipe down before using the buffing wheel.
Tinbasher: I was reading a machinist forum earlier that talked about pulling up, or lifting, the surface. I didn't get to finish reading it, and now can't find it again. Would you be able to educate me a little more about it?
I can't say where the pars were made; I know they've been on the car since the 70s. I have to believe the upper stanchions are original Ford parts, though.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I'd use lighter pressure and don't let it get hot. Also more steps in sanding to get it smoother.

[Kevin in NJ]

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You are buffing wrong, but you probably figured that out.
I taught myself on all the stainless for my 31. It was not a quick learning curve and it was not cheap to get the right supplies. Even then it is not as nice as I would like, but later I looked at pro stuff and realized I am not so bad. Florescent long tube lights are great for finding dents (look for distortion) but are horrible for seeing the final finish, it looks way worse then in daylight.

The little dents are from a wheel that is loaded up with polish and they are acting like little hammers. You need a rake to clean your wheel or throw it away and start over. You need the correct size wheels for the RPM of your buffer. Oh, I know cause I had that same problem at first!!

You also are not getting rid of the scratch properly. That is you start with the finest grit paper that you think will remove the existing defects. When you can see you have cut through all the bad stuff now you sand 90 degrees to remove the sanding scratch you created. Keep repeating until you get to 600 to 1200 depending on stuff. It is a very slow process to right by hand. In some cases a rubber wheel with tri-zact bands can speed things up. In the end, hand wet sanding for hours is your friend.
You need to wet sand and use major name brand paper like 3m or Norton. Cheap paper dulls on the stainless in just a few strokes and costs you more in the end.
You only load on a small (like 1 second) amount of the polish on the wheel. You MUST have the correct wheel and polish for the material. There is NO standard on the color of the material, if you do not know what it is then you do not have the right stuff. Buy from a good place (Eastwood is ok too) and keep you stuff labeled and clean.

Respect the wheel, polish on the bottom and understand it can break your arm. It almost happened to me once. I got a metal band watch ripped off my arm when a head light rim caught wrong. I thought it was broke but I got lucky. I have a Baldor buffer I bought at Hershey used cheap. On my way out with the buffer I went by Tar Heel Parts and they sold me all the correct stuff I needed to do brass and stainless including the buffing gloves. To remove the black wax you need cornstarch, it seems like nothing takes that off, but with corn starch it comes right off.

I suggest you get your supplies from tarheelparts.com they will also give you advice if you buy from them (well worth the price!!!!!!)

[sjhark]

Thanks, Kevin. I was suspicious that I may be using the wrong size wheels for my buffing motor. Mine is a Harbor Freight model. I buy my wheels from Eastwood, mostly. They seem to hold together better than most of the others I've been able to find; I'll check out Tar Heel. I already use 3M paper, so I'll just have to use finer grit.
Thanks again, everyone who contributed to this thread. I'll get some finer paper this weekend and give a report when I have time to try it all out.

[Ed in Maine]

The suppliers of polishing materials can provide a lot of useful information on the internet. I don't think anyone mentioned it but you should use a different polishing wheel for each grade of rouge and do not mix them up. I use three levels of rouge and the results are stunning. Ed