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Old 02-14-2014, 12:23 PM   #1
Harylufa
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Default Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Hi all!

I finally found a material spacer to my carb.

Do anybody know where to get the accurate drawing of the cab base?

I know that I can do it manually but I want to know if I can do it precisely.

Thanks for your helps

Hary
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:35 PM   #2
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

I measure with a digital caliper. I print it out and compare the print to the part and adjust as required.
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

why not use a stock gasket for the pattern???????
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

This is just an idea - but you might want to leave a generous radius around the bolt holes - So there is a little extra "meat" to resist crushing.

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Old 02-14-2014, 02:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Measure the carb base bolt centers and plot it out.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:11 PM   #6
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

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Hi all!

Today I did some samples. I draw the holes of the carb base in AutoCad and printed in scale 1:1. Then I glued the paper on a piece of wood and did the holes with a hole saw of 1 1/4". The bolt holes are 3/8".

Can anybody tell me if the measures of the holes are correct?
I attach some pics of what I have done until now before doing it on the phenolic.
Tell me what do you think. Thanks for reading this post.

Hary.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:55 PM   #7
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Hary, I would glue a thin spacer between the phenolic and the gasket, then use a router with a bearing to follow the gasket. Importantly, use a large drill bit to rough cut the holes previous to the final cut to prevent the router bit from grabbing the phenolic.
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Old 02-14-2014, 08:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Tell me what you think.
I think you are doing a great job. However; the 1 1/4 " holes will be too large. This will ruin the ventury effect between the base/butterfly holes. They need to be the exact diameter as the carb base/intake holes. They must not have an opening between them !
Keep up the good work. You are on the right tract.
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Old 02-14-2014, 08:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Are you making this for a heat dam between the carb and manifold. If so, check this out www.coolcarb.com
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Quote:
Originally Posted by ford38v8 View Post
Hary, I would glue a thin spacer between the phenolic and the gasket, then use a router with a bearing to follow the gasket. Importantly, use a large drill bit to rough cut the holes previous to the final cut to prevent the router bit from grabbing the phenolic.

Alan,

I found a guy who has a big router and can do the exact shape but he needs the exact measures (cad drawing). I am doing this because I can not buy product from abroad (new rules in Argentina )
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:36 PM   #11
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluardun View Post
Tell me what you think.
I think you are doing a great job. However; the 1 1/4 " holes will be too large. This will ruin the ventury effect between the base/butterfly holes. They need to be the exact diameter as the carb base/intake holes. They must not have an opening between them !
Keep up the good work. You are on the right tract.
Do you know what is the exact measure then?
Thanks,

Hary.
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:40 PM   #12
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul2748 View Post
Are you making this for a heat dam between the carb and manifold. If so, check this out www.coolcarb.com
I saw the link you mentioned and it is very interesting.
I am doing this in order to isolate the heat from the engine. I notice that new carbs do not use iron bases and the use the same material for the base and the carb. If I use the "coolcarb", will it work the same for the carb 94?

I want to thank you all for your time in posting. This helps me a lot.

Hary.
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:56 PM   #13
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Hary, your man with the router apparently doesn't own an ordinary table router if he needs a cad drawing. Tell him to just use a bit with a bearing to follow the gasket, or better yet, the base of the carburetor. If he can't figure out how to do that, he isn't much of a machinist and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near your car.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:17 PM   #14
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Ford38v8!

We have a problem nowadays people seem not like to think or work. I have a great problem in meeting people who want help me with my old car. I do not know there but here sometimes I must beg although I pay (not cheap)for it.

Thanks to Fordbarn I could fix many things in my old car.

Hary.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:56 PM   #15
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Hary, Yes, I understand your dillemma regarding work ethics today, as that issue does seem to be universal to some extent. Here's an idea that should help with all your old car issues, and be enjoyable to you as well: The Early Ford V8 Club is a world wide organization, and has a number of members in Argentina, and I'm sure there are also other antique car clubs there as well. Join the club, you'll recieve your roster of members, and look up those members local to you. Mutual interests and mutual assistance and friendship is exactly what a club is all about, you don't have to go it alone. Just as you've found here on the Fordbarn, you'll find poeple local to you who enjoy helping a fellow car enthusiast.
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harylufa View Post
Alan,

I found a guy who has a big router and can do the exact shape but he needs the exact measures (cad drawing). I am doing this because I can not buy product from abroad (new rules in Argentina )
I wondered why you were being so persistent about making this yourself, but I guess new rule in Argentina explains why. What if someone here ordered this part from say Cool Carb and then mailed it to you. Would that break their rules?
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Not sure if this will work for you or not. Just as an FYI if you block off the heat risers with little pieces of sheet steel, you will be amazed how much cooler the carburetor is. It took care of my "vapor lock" situation. They are easy to remove if you don't like them. Just a thought.
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Old 02-15-2014, 05:46 PM   #18
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

This isn't rocket science!
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

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This isn't rocket science!
No, you are absolutely correct. It's a conversation among gentlemen. You may go out and play with your rockets now.
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:34 PM   #20
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Hi all!

jajaja! Yes, it is rocket science!!! look what I did today. "a small step for human, a big step for humanity"

Well, I have just finished the cad drawing I attach a pic.

Dear Ford38v8!

I have been in Ford V8 Club because the mechanic that used to repair my car was the Club President´s son. This mechanic did run my car during 10 years with 7 PSI fuel pressure, so during 10 years I have been wasting fuel. So when I meet Fordbarn and other websites I realised that many things in my car were wrong. I told this to the mechanic and he told me I was wrong and not to touch my car.
Think about this, what would you do in my place?


I really appreciate all the help you give me, here in Fordbarn people like Bubba, Skip Old Henry, Ken Mart etc etc gave me like others technical explanations that help me run my car properly, even we are 10.000 kms away.

maybe there is a much easier way to do it for instance SELLING MY CAR, this is what most of people tell me to do, jajaja!!! But I am young and patience. And I can assure you that I learnt a lot.

please keep in posting that is funny


Hary
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:54 PM   #21
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

They have one for the three bolt 94's and it works the same as a pheno spacer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harylufa View Post
I saw the link you mentioned and it is very interesting.
I am doing this in order to isolate the heat from the engine. I notice that new carbs do not use iron bases and the use the same material for the base and the carb. If I use the "coolcarb", will it work the same for the carb 94?

I want to thank you all for your time in posting. This helps me a lot.

Hary.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:37 PM   #22
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Hang in there Hary. Your perseverance will pay off and you'll have the last laugh.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Hary:

With each posting you learn more. Knowledge is ownership....keep the car.

Last edited by Merc Cruzer; 02-16-2014 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:59 AM   #24
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Do you have a source for more of the gaskets shown in your first post?,,,if so ,use several of them in a stack. Compress them first somewhat so as to not distort the carb base when tightening down.
just another idea.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:01 AM   #25
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Quote:
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They have one for the three bolt 94's and it works the same as a pheno spacer.
I did a lot of heat testing on the entire fuel system on several of my old Fords in 95 to over 100 degree days. Most tests were performed on about a 25 mile run at the same speeds on the same roads to our lunch destination. This also allowed me to take temperatures as soon as we stopped for lunch and 1/2 hour to 45 minutes later with the engine sitting while we ate. I tried an aluminum/insulated carb spacer similar to the coolcarb spacer and if anything it made the carb a little hotter. The air in the area of the intake manifold is at least 135 degrees on a 95 degree day so no hot air is going to be dispersed, infact it will attract heat. I did a Google coolcarb search and found Corvette owners found it didn't provide any help on their engines. The Ford fans don't provide air over the center of the engine, the air is directed toward the fenders. If the fan came down over the top of the engine it MAY work a LITTLE. On my tests I found Bob Shewmans 1/2" thick phenolic spacer with horizontal vent holes cooled the carb, I don't remember the exact number of degrees by it was very notable and stopped the boiling after shut down. The carb problem is mostly after shut down not running down the road. The real problem is in the fuel pump, below 55 MPH when the fuel remains to long in the 135 degree pump. Above 55 MPH there is enough fuel flowing through the pump to cool it. It starts at 55 MPH and will shut the engine down in slow traffic and stop signs. This new fuel boils at 125 degrees. Bob can be contacted at [email protected] G.M.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:13 AM   #26
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

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There is a vender that advertises in the EFV8 magazine that produces these spacers very high quality. Robert Shewman [email protected]
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:30 PM   #27
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Dear friends!

Today I finished the template for the spacer and the gasket. It was interested.

It is in auto cad and I attach in PDF to see how its look like. As I have the phenolic I will do it in CNC Router.

Today I tested the carb base and It was at 60ºC/140Fº.

I wonder how many degrees will the phenolic decrease.!

What di you think?

Hary
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:39 PM   #28
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Looks like you've done a LOT of work to get to this point!

How thick is your phenolic? If you use it for the bowl-to-throttle section gasket, with I assume a regular gasket on each side, it will mess up the linkage that goes from the throttle to the accelerator pump and possibly the fast-idle cam's fit to the throttle screw. It depends how thick the phenolic is.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:50 AM   #29
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Hi Ross!

Actually the phenolic is (21,2 mm) almost (0.85 inch). Still I hace the phenolic without cutting. Your point is interesting, I will check the linkage then.

Thanks

Hary
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:29 PM   #30
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Hi all
Finally I got the spacer done. I attach pics. By the way I also cut a pair of acrylic template for making gaskets. What do you think?

I will install the spacer and test how much the temperature decreases.

I came back with news.
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Old 02-20-2014, 02:44 PM   #31
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Very nice indeed!

Is it cold enough there to ever NEED some heat from the manifold?
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:01 PM   #32
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Hi ross!

No much cold, the most of the time in winter the temp is 10ºC in some cases in cold days is about 5ºC no less.

I attach a pic of spacer installed. Tomorrow I will measure the temp after running my engine.

Before install the spacer the carb temp was 60ºC and fuel line was 55ºC. Perhaps Must I isolate the fuel line that is of plastic?

Thank for reading

Hary
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:07 PM   #33
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

Any higher and you'll need smaller jets!
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:17 PM   #34
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Default Re: Phenolic carb spacer...CAD drawing

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Any higher and you'll need smaller jets!
Hi Uncle -max!

It sound interesting what you say, but I do not understand. The carb is 0,51 actually

spacer is 1 inch.

Thanks
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