1934 mechanical brakes 'vs' model A' style

[steve hackel]

To those that have done this before, what - if any - differences are there between the mechanical brakes on a 1934 and the mechanical brakes on a Model A' ? I have done model A' brakes, and have books for the procedures used, but have nothing in print and no experience on 1934.
Help, suggestions?
Thanks, Steve

[Bruce Lancaster]

They are generally similar to Model A, but are 12' diameter AND the rears do not have separate shoes for the emergency brake. '32-4 the hand brake lever worked directly on the service brakes.

[Marshall V. Daut]

A friend in Arizona converted his 1929 Model A Sport Coupe to 1934 brakes in the 1960's. Whenever I drove it - not knowing about the brake change - I was amazed at how well it stopped, even compared to a well-done Model A brake system. I never bothered to look at the backing plates because the car was so stock otherwise. Finally, he shared his secret with me and pointed out the larger backing plates and brake drums. Wow! Was I dumbfounded! 'Sure wish Ford had put drums that size with commensurately-sized brake shoes surface area on the Model A when it was introduced. What a difference!
It's rather funny that in 1932 Ford went to the rear brake shoes operating also as the parking brake. This continued at least through the 1938 Fords; 'dunno about the hydraulic era. Anyway, when Ford first introduced the Model A, it had no separate parking brake shoe provision. As the Floyd Clymer booklets from the late 1950's shrilly announce, "adverse state legislation" forced Ford to re-design the rear brake system so that a separate parking brake system was incorporated. Apparently some states threatened not to allow new Fords to be sold there unless a separate parking brake system was included with the Model A. So. Ford complied in 1928. That's why the early (so-called "AR" since the 1960's) Model A's have the special single step rear brake drums instead of the double step = there were no separate emergency brake shoes! And then Ford goes back to this design in 1932 without catching holy H*ll and facing "adverse state legislation"? What happened in the meantime to make the complaining states change their minds about this design, I wonder?
Marshall

[2manycars]

The V8 guys could tell us more precisely, but I recall that around 34 or 35 the upper show mounting was changed to a floating system, similar to what flat head ted now sells. That would improve the braking a great deal.

[Marshall V. Daut]

I did a brake job in December on a friend's 1937 Ford and all four backing plates had the floating system you describe, "2manycars". I seem to recall reading in the '37-38 shop manual that my friend loaned me to prepare for the job that this floating design was new for 1937. This differentiated the brake system from the previous designs. Unlike the pre-1937 design, the new design had a number of springs in different tensions that were painted four different colors to distinguish them from each other. It was critical that in order for the new floating design to function, the springs had to be placed in specific positions. This ensured that the primary shoe made contact first (lighter springs), which then activated the secondary show (heavier springs), hence "floating". Here is a photo of the one finished backing plates, which does differ from the fixed pre-1937 design. I know this isn't Model A stuff, but try to imagine if this system had it been included in the Model A when it was new!
Marshall

[2manycars]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

I did a brake job in December on a friend's 1937 Ford and all four backing plates had the floating system you describe, "2manycars". I seem to recall reading in the '37-38 shop manual that my friend loaned me to prepare for the job that this floating design was new for 1937. This differentiated the brake system from the previous designs. Unlike the pre-1937 design, the new design had a number of springs in different tensions that were painted four different colors to distinguish them from each other. It was critical that in order for the new floating design to function, the springs had to be placed in specific positions. This ensured that the primary shoe made contact first (lighter springs), which then activated the secondary show (heavier springs), hence "floating". Here is a photo of the one finished backing plate, which does differ from the fixed pre-1937 design. I know this isn't Model A stuff, but try to imagine if this system had it been included in the Model A when it was new!
Marshall

I have never used the product, but I think that the flat head ted system is a variation of this brake system. And thanks for correcting me on the year.

[Marshall V. Daut]

"2manycars" -
I wouldn't bet my life that 1937 was the first year for this floating design on Fords, but that's what I seem to recall from the manual. I hope I didn't misadvise you. I think, however, for the audience on this Model A website, it doesn't really matter one way or another.
If you are interested in reading about this experience, check over on the early V-8 section and do a search for "1937 brakes" or use my name. A couple threads with lots of photos can be found. It was interesting to step out of my Model A and t comfort zone to do the brake job on my friend's 1937 Fordor, but it wasn't enough to pull me into the V-8 camp. I'll stick with T's and A's, thank you.
Marshall

[DougVieyra]

Although without the larger drums/backing plates, the 'FLAT HEAD TED' conversion kit does try to duplicate the improvements that FORD had made to his late V-8 mechanical brakes. Some Model A'ers who have installed them say there is a marked improvement in the stopping ability of the Model A. So I can easily understand what a significant improvement that would be made with larger drums & the improved brake shoe activators.

[bettlesr]

I have the Flathead Ted system on the front right now and am planing to put the 34 assemblys on the front. Does anyone know where I can get the operating pins for the 12" drums?
Thanks
Dick

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by bettlesr

I have the Flathead Ted system on the front right now and am planing to put the 34 assemblys on the front. Does anyone know where I can get the operating pins for the 12" drums?
Thanks
Dick

Little Dearborn in MPLS sells early V8 parts. 612-331-2066

[Ron in Quincy]

1934 was the last year FORD used brake rods, the wheels were 17" spoke. I had an occasion a few years ago to rebuild a 34 brake system on a original restored 34 Deluxe Coupe; I removed all the backing plates, as the person who had done the work did not remove and clean the adjusting wedges which were rusted and couldn't be moved; when complete the floating system was excellent and the brakes were superior to the Model A mechanical system.

Ron

[Jim Brierley]

1935 brakes should be even better than the 32-34 as they are wider, same as hyd. brakes.

[Kevin in NJ]

Lots of not quite correct details.

You can see the evolution of the Ford brakes by reading the V8 service bulletins.

32 is like the A just different length levers.
33 started the wedges on all wheels. This equalized rate of brake action or at least that is what I have been told. The rear cam action moved the shoes at a different rate. They also did the float action more. The adjuster end still restricted up down movement.

35 to early 36 they gave more up down movement but still held the adjuster from for aft movement. In late 36 they did what Ted tried to poorly copy. They allowed for aft movement.

37 started the cable brakes. They are a Pia to keep right.

39 they went to juice brakes.

At some point Ford changed the shoes to allow more vertical float. I forget when that happened. I am thinking 37.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

...In late 36 they did what Ted tried to poorly copy...

Don't think I've ever heard it put quite that way.

[Ron in Quincy]

Jim,

You are correct, also went to 16" wheels and cables instead of rods.

The one problem that occurred , caused by the driver, was oiling the cables, apparently thinking the cables would move easier, dirt would collect on the cables from the oil and cause the cables to bind in the cable housings.

I had a 36 Ford Touring Sedan, installed hyd. brakes, used 39 front backing plates and drums, did not have to change the rear drums, I did this so I could use the original Deluxe 36 Hub Caps and wheels . It looked stock but sure stopped better considering the weight of the 36 Ford.

Ron

[Ron in Quincy]

I believe the following info. is correct, let me know if I am wrong !!!!

The V8 60 engine was introduced in 1937, cable mech. brakes started in 1935. The bolt pattern on the 35 wheels, 16", were the same as 28,29, 30, 31, 32, 33, and 34; in 36 the bolt pattern was enlarged and used thru 1939. The 32 wheels were 18", the 33-34 wheels were 17" and the 35 were 16".

Ron

I decided to check my "FORD" Chassis and Parts Catalog; I am wrong, the same brake rods were used from 1933 thru 1936, the cable system appeared on passenger and commercial in 1937.

Sorry for the wrong information.

Ron

[pooch]

How many brake rods were going back to the rear on a 32 to 34 ?

[Bruce Lancaster]

Only one to each side...here. Some furrin countries had separate system legislation still, and so some '32's...I think German ones at least...had 2 separate crossshafts and 4 rods, presumably 2 sets of shoes, in back!
USA 1932's, meanwhile, had four wheel braking on the parking brake handle...it worked the whole system just like the foot pedal, with only the brakelight switch not active.

[Art Bjornestad]

My first car was a '39 standard 2door that had cable brakes. Since that time I have spoken to several Early Ford V8 owners that had owned '39s with the same set ups.

[Lawrie]

Bruce, I,m from one of those Furrin countries,(Australia) my 33 and 34 are both New zealand new cars and have the two rod rear brakes,the lever on the rear backing plate has two slots in it to take the two rods,these rods have an elongated slot so that when you use one it does not effect the other,
It all works great, but I think the USA version with the park brake on all four wheels would be better.
Lawrie