Power Nation Flathead

[Ol' Ron]

I just watched an episode of Power nation. The engine in question was a 302 ci flathead. 65CC heads, block was relieved, and 3 94 carbs were installed, No Cam specs were mentioned Power was just shy of 160HP torque 267 . No RPM were called out. Kinda makes you wonder where all these 200hp flatheads come from

[Angledrive]

Dreams?

[frnkeore]

Did they give the total chamber volume, or, just the heads?

[Angledrive]

That was just the heads. Block was relieved about .090.

[F-ONE]

They're very small horses.


These are the same horses that live in 500HP 350s and 450HP SBF 302s.

[V8COOPMAN]

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Originally Posted by F-ONE

They're very small horses.

These are the same horses that live in 500HP 350s and 450HP SBF 302s.

Now that Sir, is FUNNY! Probably, more truth to that statement than one can imagine. Cute li'l horsey, for sure! DD

[Ol' Ron]

Love it!!

[mfirth]

Makes me think of a V8-60, they are cute too.........

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

I just watched an episode of Power nation. The engine in question was a 302 ci flathead. 65CC heads, block was relieved, and 3 94 carbs were installed, No Cam specs were mentioned Power was just shy of 160HP torque 267 . No RPM were called out. Kinda makes you wonder where all these 200hp flatheads come from

I saw that program also. For what they did to the engine, which was almost nothing, the dyno readings were very honest.

[51 MERC-CT]

And then?

[Ol' Ron]

I Wonder what cam they used? When JWL modified the stock engine, it produced very little HP reguardless of all the add on, untill a mile cam was installed and that helped allot. Most of the 276 Street engines i build only produced 130/140 Hp @ 42/4800, But this was more than double the original.

[23sbob]

you just gotta love this engine

[Newc]

This explains those fast GMC/Chevs. Bought [2] 261 blocks today. Newc

[Ol' Ron]

Been watching allot of LS and LT builds and the new aftermarket alum heads for the old engines. It seems that the biggest modification is the elinination of the bowl under the valve and blending it into the original port. JWL did something like that. Some thought should be given to this.
Gramps

[38 coupe]

Did JWL ever publish the final power figure of his engine? I'm curious how it compared to the stock and mildly modified 8BA described in his book. I'm not curious about a final number as a true horsepower figure due to differences in dynos as described in his book.

[Lanny]

Rick Schnell of MN. built the worlds quickest single engine flathead dragster
a few years ago. Has a Very-Very highly modified Ford flathead, 900 hp.

Here's a link to a short video below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YHs0CG8MA8




.

[Tinker]

It's TV.



Oh man. Now I want one of these.

[/QUOTE]

[Tinker]

you don't need a 1000 ponies to go fast.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI6NmRjMsPk

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Tinker

Oh man. Now I want one of these.

[/QUOTE]

Problem is that they don't ride very well. Your feet tend to drag continuously and it slows the horsy down a lot! DD

[Tinker]

I have a pet monkey, a tin can, and I plan to travel the land in a van. So I'm good.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by Tinker

you don't need a 1000 ponies to go fast.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI6NmRjMsPk

Nope just 300 from a 1950 Ford Flathead burning gasoline.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuRbG60gTpM

[Ol' Ron]

normally asperated engines, running pump gas. are more difficult to make HP. Supercharging and exotic fuels are the easy way. However, the trick here is keeping together. The new engines are street driven, yet make more power than the early mussel cars. In 96 GM came out with the Vortec cylinder head for the SMC and added 40 HP with the same CR and smaller valves. Technology at work. Sometimes we just get lazy.

[Ol' Ron]

mtt

[Ol' Ron]

Over 1500 people are watching this thread, just waitung for answers??
Gramps

[V8COOPMAN]

.

Every now and then, I realize that I AM just a little bit 'slow'! I just now realized that the MOST-EST LITTLE of these two 'baby' horseys (back in post #10) ain't for real, and is (once again) merely another masterful, "Photoshopped", lesser-creation directly from the imagination of "51 MERC". Ho, ho, HO! DD

[56markII]

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The last flatheads including 1954 (and yes in Canada we enjoyed them for an additional year so change your title to 1954 ;-) were rated 120-125 with a single OEM carb. 7.5 CR and of course weren't stroked and bored to 302 cubes so why should 160 be so difficult???
Ol Ron chime in here about relieving blocks. The opinions vary greatly on this! Ford used to relieve their blocks in the early models but stopped and I have heard a few mention for the work, received very little HP gain and along with all of this lowered the compression!
If naturally aspirated perhaps the biggest gain other than cubes and a steep hill is compression? The fellows who are selling the aftermarket camshaft told me compression is very important as well to get a GOOD camshaft to perform.
Compression and a better camshaft seems plausible because my C8CM in my 50 Mercury only has a CR of 6.8 or less and is rated at 110 HP and of course this is off the flywheel not the rear wheels.

Then there are reports of the compression ratio if too high can have a negative result as well but I don't know because I have been rolling around the streets in my Mercury for almost 40 years with only 6.8!

Next is the cylinder head debate! Some argue between EAB and EAC compared to my C8CM heads (Canadian Mercury) but seems to me Ol Ron mentioned the most important factor for pretty much ANY head is getting a clearance of .050 between the head and top of piston?
Ol Ron I haven't found your book yet and the ones I have are too radical!! I'm not attempting to build a drag strip racer but just want to warm my 255 up! My Holley 885FFC should be a bit of an advantage being a slightly larger carburetor than the 3 stud Ford?

Also another possible consideration is pop up pistons and they come in different amounts as well. Some chirp that your displacement will be reduced but in reality if the compression is increased?
The criticisms or doubts are most likely mostly speculation?

At the end of the day cleaning up obstructions in the intake and exhaust ports, increasing the compression, finding a decent camshaft, and a bit bigger carburetor will most likely do the most for a naturally aspirated engine.
Then we get to those who think slapping on an enormous carburetor/carburetors on will help but instead the engine will be grossly over carbureted!

To sum it all up on my long reply is there are many arguments and in reality we need only the ones that are least amount of work and 💰 and start from there.
Don
PS
Merry Christmas and a happy new year!

[56markII]

Oh and another thing we are overlooking is we are dealing with Ford so again decent horsepower should be possible LMAO ;-)

[Ol' Ron]

What you are discussing here has all been dun in the past, and we know what the results are. What I'm suggesting is something new and untried. Find a copy of jWL's book and see that a 239 ford engine can not make 100HP, no mater what you add to it. You have to get inside. The 239Cr engine is a 3.8 liter engine and most make twice as much power, get better mileage, and last longer. Can't we use some of tthat technology?? Time to stert thinking outside the box!!
Gramps

[JSeery]

I think a lot of people believe (with test results to back it up) that the Ford advertised HP numbers are overstated.

[56markII]

I have been told by the fellow who posted specs on the cylinder heads and he mentioned he has a flatty that he is running EFI and can be hidden within a carburetor for the stealth appearance lol and to get the boost he has made a manifold to accept turbos for the boost. With the turbo boost, the breathing limitations have been overcome as well and the EFI can piss in enough fuel to go with this boost.

Doing a compression test first and next checking my piston/head clearance and after the clearance reduction I have a couple of EAB cams kicking around and thanks to this forum I now know how to identify, which is simply look at the end where the timing gear goes on.
I also have a set of either EAB or EAC heads BUT as per the .050 clearance recommendation, other than milling my heads (if required) to .050 clearance, changing heads most likely won't solve much???

Yes thinking out side of the box is a great suggestion but I just want to warm things up a bit with a better? EAB cam if this is even an advantage other than having a couple on hand?
This makes me wonder because perhaps the EAB has a better duration BUT the 8CM appears to have more lift.
Now as for turbos and EFI, it won't run on 6 volts that my car is still on🤣
Also this is going farther than I really want anyway other than a bit of a warmup.
My Mercury is soon scheduled for a major resto and along with this a total rebuild of the engine as required is in the works. It won't need much with no oil consumption and oil pressure still high but a new set of gaskets, doing the valves and seats, then some swapping of the camshaft, machining of the heads and perhaps doing some work on the ports.
With the last of them rated at 120 give or take is 130+ possible without major work?
As for the size of the carburetor, take a look at those iddy biddy carbs used on the 2 barrel 283 and they most certainly were not much larger if they even were? They put out around 188-195 HP so given this and the breathing limitations of the flathead, unless I'm going for as much HP as possible which I'm not, the Holley 885 could remain?

[56markII]

Originally Posted by JSeery

I think a lot of people believe (with test results to back it up) that the Ford advertised HP numbers are overstated.

But then again is 120+ really that unrealistic especially with a 7:1 or 7.5:1 CR?
My 50 Merc with 6.8:1 or possibly even less will get my Mercury going down the highway between 85-90 MPH but meanwhile I used to have a 73 Torino with a 302 and it maxed out at around 85+ as well.
My 50 also has a factory visor but perhaps acts like a wing to make my Mercury fly😂.
There has to be a way other than steroids and quality oats to get my horses pull a bit harder and faster?
As Ol Ron mentioned about thinking outside the box, other than this I got newer goodies under my nose and don't know if they are that much of an advantage other than raising my compression and getting a new cam??

[JSeery]

If you are interested in some testing that was done on different modifications you might take a look at JWLs book.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by 56markII

I have been told by the.......
As for the size of the carburetor, take a look at those iddy biddy carbs used on the 2 barrel 283 and they most certainly were not much larger if they even were? They put out around 188-195 HP so given this and the breathing limitations of the flathead, unless I'm going for as much HP as possible which I'm not, the Holley 885 could remain?

Here are some real world numbers for you from a post I made a few months ago :

"On my way back from the post office today, I stopped at my shop and threw a caliper on a Merc manifold and a small base 2G, just to see how much difference there was. The throttle bores in the Merc Manifold were 1.300", while the 2G has 1.4375" throttle bores. A little basic math and I came out with a total throttle bore area of 2.654 sq. in for the stock Merc setup and 3.418 sq. in for the 2G. That means the throttle bore area of a 2g is almost 30% larger than the Merc. Definitely a significant improvement."

The 2G will bolt directly on the Merc manifold, and the manifold will easily accept being bored out to match the Rochester carburetor. I have done several, both cast iron and aluminum.

[56markII]

Thanks guys for the info! At least the 885 has larger bores than the 94's and now that I know the bore of a 2GC is I got an 885 core sitting on my shelf so I will measure the bores to satisfy my curiosity. Are the bores on the 885 larger than the 1.300?
I didn't think that 2GC was that large and I remember when I used to have a 64 Pontiac with a 283 and most likely it had a 2CG.
Otherwise I like my 885 and it has served me well. It was pathetically sick last summer with the crank n hope syndrome of either flooding after shutting off the engine hot or having to pour a small shot down the air cleaner and again crank n hope when hot. It had both symptoms even though it started great cold. I ordered a number of kits from Daytona Parts and now it starts very fast hot or cold with a tap on the button!
Since I got a core I can really scrutinize it along with my intakes because I got 3 flathead cores in my shed. My intake on my Mercury is of the cast iron flavor but boring it won't be difficult especially since I know somebody locally who has a small milling machine.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

Nope just 300 from a 1950 Ford Flathead burning gasoline.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuRbG60gTpM

Very fun video and fast. thanks! Fun to see something built for speed.

[Ol' Ron]

Puting a bigger carb on an engine, doesn't mean the engine will get more air. Also the 2GC comes in several sizes. I use the small one which fit;s on the Merc intake and you can bor the intake to match the bore. I agree this will improve the amount of air aviaible to the engine. This is the key to hP, more air, and the only to get more air into the engine is with better ports ,or supercharging.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Over 1500 people are watching this thread, just waitung for answers??
Gramps

Some answers are secrets 200 HP from a normally aspirated flathead is it possible the answer is yes. No I will not give the details except this using todays technology as applied to conventual engines is a starting point. Most are happy with a nice running flathead trying for that 200 number is time consuming not simple or cheap.
Ronnieroadster

[jack orchard]

If you have secrets, why not tell us?
What would it cost you - money or otherwise?
We are the last generation that cares.

[Ol' Ron]

Yes, I will explain in detail my ew port modification. Which is relatively inexpensive, but time consuming. I do believe the parts could be cast and machined for installing. We do allot to these engine that take mor money and time , with little rewards./ One of the best running engine I ever drove had stock valves and ports. As a street engine it was deemed unnecessary. Some of the things we do work and some don't. Hopefully we learn.
Gramps

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by jack orchard

If you have secrets, why not tell us?
What would it cost you - money or otherwise?
We are the last generation that cares.

Ronnieroadster (Ron San Giovanni) takes his "secrets" pretty seriously. And he has worked and experimented for decades developing these secrets, and has more than earned the right to keep them close to his heart. You see, Ron and his son are devout, hard-core, record-holding, world-class, die hard flathead racers. Ron is a member of the highly prestigious "200 MPH Club" at Bonneville. To belong to that fellowship is honor-enough, but to get there with flathead power speaks volumes. Ron also holds records in Limestone, Maine for doing 200.9 MPH in a mile and a half with a flathead. Ride along with him on an earlier run in Maine that netted him ONLY a 172 MPH run.....insane for a flatty! The second video below shows the car and some examples of the "expense" and investment that Ron has put forth to earn and learn all of his well-guarded secrets. Enjoy!! DD


https://youtu.be/t5xpBsWCTwo

https://youtu.be/oRt8ZoOg63Y?list=UU...lFhpAC-Sa6zvOQ





........

[Pete]

Originally Posted by jack orchard

If you have secrets, why not tell us?
What would it cost you - money or otherwise?
We are the last generation that cares.

Just about everything that we do to STREET engines has been posted on here or the HAMB in the last few years. All of these mods are well within reach of the average hot rodder.

I doubt there are any secrets concerning 150 hp street engines. As the saying goes, "even a cave man can do it".

If you want to spend 50K on a record setting Bonneville engine or a vintage circle track engine that you can lap the field in 5 laps then you will be admitted to the "secret" circle. It is just a matter of the bottom line. Education is NOT cheap and it took us at least 50 years and a million bucks to get here.

[56markII]

Originally Posted by jack orchard

If you have secrets, why not tell us?
What would it cost you - money or otherwise?
We are the last generation that cares.

Jack you could not have said it any better!!!!!
Yes we are the last generation who cares and for those with all of their "secrets" how many of you see the flatheads being ripped out, discarded, and replaced with a SBC or a crate engine??
I do not want a 200 HP engine because now we are seriously modifying this engine!
Another quote is all the information is on this forum. ??? In reality a bit of this so information in some cases is speculation, hearsay, or assumptions and other members have pointed this out as well.

I arrived at this conclusion sifting through discussions on cylinder heads, and camshafts! One can spend hours looking though the information and easily come to this conclusion.
As an example cylinder heads such as EAB and EAC. I ran across EAB is better, no EAC, is better and next it will be NFG is better🤣 as the alphabet discussion continues.

Next we get into the camshafts and this is another "kettle of fish"🤬
NO I most certainly don't want something that is over cammed that idles so rough it bounces around like Hoppy the Hopparoo or sounds like a twin cylinder John Deere tractor.
Now people don't get me wrong as I'm not wanting to flame or criticize but what we need is does it work or no it doesn't work from those who have tried and yes I will post what my findings are because one can spend hours sifting.

In my case, all I'm looking for is perhaps 10, 20, or maybe 30 HP more🙏 and this shouldn't be much of a secret or too much to ask for?
When we get into 160+ well now we are doing major mods, major cash money for something that may or may not work depending on information or mistakes made and for this category you can keep those secrets LMAO!


Now camshafts................I have an 8CM in use presently and also have a pair of EAB and many thanks to more than helpful forum members providing information has led me to figure out what I have! A simple fact that I never knew is look at the end and see what's stamped. Lo and behold I got an EAB👍
Now for the confusion and that is, am I gaining anything after spending time swapping along with a bit of cash for gaskets?

The confusion is the 8CM appears to have more lift vs the EAB possibly having a better duration? Is a swap from 8CM to EAB a waste of time or will it get me perhaps 5+ more HP?
What about the so called "mild" aftermarket camshaft or is it no better than a stock 8CM,EAB, or EAC?
Okay now cylinder heads?
8CM vs EAB or EAC OR is Ol Ron's valuable information about the .050 rule more important?? In other words if pretty much any head except for 8RT milled for a .050 will work, or is a milled EAB or EAC better?

Now maybe you can see what I mean by so much information to sift through for only small amounts?😆🤣😂
I'm looking for quite simply small amounts of gain with what I have on hand as both a hobby and fascination with these flatheads after all I'm driving around in a stock 71 year old car like a Cuban.


Oh I might add I know what its like to pull intakes while the engine is in the car! Years ago (early 80's) when I purchased my Mercury I made the mistake of using adjustable lifters. After a number of times pulling the intake to kill woodpeckers I assumed the new lifters were just seating into a used cam. Wrong! Along finally comes the internet where some mentioned these lifters can creep!! They now have instructions mentioning that if the bolt turns with insufficient resistance, to remove the bolt and place in a vice end for end and compress to squish the threads together🤬 Mine came with nothing but the box and lousy wrench and since then park my ass behind a valve grinder and I will set those valves whisper quiet with no creepers because I'm now 40 years into the trade as a mechanic.

Unfortunately I usually do things stock and don't modify which is why I and others are looking for answers especially for small amounts of gain.

[56markII]

Well here is some information so far on the 8CM VS EAB or EAC and Ol Ron mentioned he never ran an EAC but liked the EAB
I don't have an EAC but just have an EAB and the only other cam I have is in a 1CM and 8BA block I got laying around.
My definition of gains is my car went 85 and now with a model x camshaft it does 90 as an example. Unless there is a comparison before and after in the same vehicle, it will be more difficult to determine loss or gain, just my 2 cents here.


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270791

[tubman]

It's really not which heads you have, but what you do to them that counts. If you're just gonna bolt 'em on with out checking and optimizing them, you're wasting your time.

[JSeery]

I'm not following this lack of information, there is tons of information on modifying flatheads. As Pete posted, don't think you have to worry about any secrets until you get into the very advanced modifications arena. Several members here on the Barn have published books on the subject.

[Ronnieroadster]

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Originally Posted by jack orchard

If you have secrets, why not tell us?
What would it cost you - money or otherwise?
We are the last generation that cares.

Jack please don't take my comment the wrong way. The mystery of the 200 HP flathead is what I'm referring to. Two flathead designs that are worth investigating are the Briggs and Stratton 5 HP engines as used in the Jr Dragster class and the second is the Harley flathead KR design each can be used for any generation interested. We are not the last generation to care about the flathead heck I'm presently helping young guys and a few girls with their flathead builds so you can be sure the end is not going to happen for a VERY long time.
Ronnieroadster

[Desoto291Hemi]

Very impressive videos that much I do know .
Those flatheads are making tremendous power.
Ronnie,,,,and the other guys,,,,,,that takes a lot of work and money to produce power like you guys are .
I salute you for devoting the time and money to make this happen .
Don’t tell a soul how you did it,,,,,you earned it the hard way .
I am curious what kind of gear boxes you use ,,,,,,lots of whine when the engine is shut down ?

Tommy

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Desoto291Hemi

I am curious what kind of gear boxes you use ,,,,,,lots of whine when the engine is shut down ?Tommy

That is a nice thing about circle track racing.There is no transmission to blow up or lose power through, in the sprint cars and midgets. The very early ones used a "dog" clutch and the later ones a sliding sleeve in the rear end. The modifieds usually use a race transmission of which there are several brands. For the rear end, sprint cars and midgets use a typical quick change center section with an open axle and one inboard 2 puck disc brake.
Race transmissions and quick change rear ends have spur gears so they all whine.

[V8COOPMAN]

.

Ronnie.....All of that whining racket I'm hearing as the car slows down after the run and continues to whine after the car has stopped....is that possibly an electric water pump we're hearing? DD

[38 coupe]

Originally Posted by 56markII

Now as for turbos...

The Ford flathead V8 could probably win an award for the worst American V8 to put a turbo on. Turbos need the exhaust gasses to stay hot between the cylinders and the turbine nozzle (has to do with gas flow energy). Our Ford flathead V8s route the exhaust through the cooling passages between the cylinders and the exhaust ports.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

Our Ford flathead V8s route the exhaust through the cooling passages between the cylinders and the exhaust ports.

Not always.

[Ronnieroadster]

Hi Guys here's answers to some of the questions.
DD The whining sound you hear is the water pump after a run we continue circulating water doing this helps in eliminating cylinder cracks. Another sound you hear during the slow down is the Quickchange rear axle the straight cut change gears make a sweet sounding noise as well. Tommy The transmission we use is a shortened Ford C-4 three speed it may be the fastest C-4 ever when running our race 292 cube Ardun top speed has been 229 MPH.
Here's a bit more information about the first six years of this journey.
To get to this point where we now have speed and reliability has taken the sacrifice of 4 blocks. One was a French block and the rest late Ford blocks 8BA and 1BA. Learning a little more with each combination has shown for us the best blocks have been the 1BA the ones with no removable valve seats not easy to find but I'm always on the lookout for another just in case.
Ronnieroadster

[Desoto291Hemi]

Okay that makes sense .
I never thought about a quick change,,,,yep,,,,straight cut spur gears will sound pretty loud at speed after shutdown .
Beautiful job !

Tommy

[Pete]

Here is a video of a car with a typical noisy quick change. All the cars in this video are powered by flathead Ford engines of 286 ci or less. The car with the camera is probably the fastest vintage modified running these days and it has an engine that would have been classed as a street engine in the 50's. Notice the vacuum gauge at various points on the track. He is not getting to full throttle till half way down the straight. (too much hp for the legal tire size) Tach says 6200 max.
Lots of hp left on the table but if you win all of the races, why spend for more?
https://youtu.be/49mknw1Fkfg

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Pete

Here is a video of a car with a typical noisy quick change.
Lots of hp left on the table but if you win all of the races, why spend for more?
https://youtu.be/49mknw1Fkfg

That's a pretty decent sounding ol' flathead. I DO appreciate the 'fun' ride-along! DD

[Ziggster]

Good reading. When I had my flathead built, my machinist warned me of the expense involved and the associated rate of return on Hp. Good thing I just wanted a stk build, and no fancy aftermarket heads and intake (couldn't afford it). I totally respect those that have invested their lives into racing flatheads, and the secrets they have learned and earned over decades of hard work. I wouldn't be giving up any secrets either. That is what competive sports is all about across the board. I'm no engine builder/ designer, but as a mechanical engineer with some knowledge, and it would be no secret to anyone, the success of any performance engine is volumetric and combustion efficiency, and getting there with a flathead design is where the secrets lie. I'm not sure if anyone has tried it, but direct fuel injection into the head would probably make a huge difference.

[Ol' Ron]

Pete, I really enjoyes that trip aroundthe track, reminded me of my youte. Our rules had a 2400 lb weight min, so were much lighter than these cars, but the engines were still 258 ci
We had the engine tuned on a chassis dyno once and it made 127HP. how the driver said the car didn't have the pull off the corners so we put it back to where it was. Sometimes the numbers don't mean much. However the short tracks are the best visual racing you can find.
Gramps.

[Ronnieroadster]

Thats a great video Pete Thanks for posting it. Seeing how well the car pulls in high gear tells me the final change gear ratio is in the high 4's am I close?
Ronnieroadster

[Ol' Ron]

We ran 5.42 at Danbury 1/3 mile

[Darrell S]

Originally Posted by Pete

Here is a video of a car with a typical noisy quick change. All the cars in this video are powered by flathead Ford engines of 286 ci or less. The car with the camera is probably the fastest vintage modified running these days and it has an engine that would have been classed as a street engine in the 50's. Notice the vacuum gauge at various points on the track. He is not getting to full throttle till half way down the straight. (too much hp for the legal tire size) Tach says 6200 max.
Lots of hp left on the table but if you win all of the races, why spend for more?
https://youtu.be/49mknw1Fkfg

Are any races like this happening in the PNW? I would love to see some of these live. Or any other events with flatheads?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Darrell S

Are any races like this happening in the PNW? I would love to see some of these live. Or any other events with flatheads?

I am not sure the new schedules are out yet.
Look up "West Coast Vintage Racers", website.
Also, "Golden Wheels".
A couple years ago, the Golden Wheels were running every Friday night at Monroe.

You may have to wait for the virus to quiet down now.

[Krylon32]

Saw the comments above about a turbo charger on a FH. Many years ago there was a man from I believe Belleville KS. with a turbocharged FH in a 40 coupe that he ran on propane. It sure seemed to run good.

[JWL]

There are many housing options for turbochargers. Including some that can be used for BIG boost on our, cold exhaust Flatheads.

[Ronnieroadster]

Phil Landry runs a land speed record holding Fox bodied Mustang with a turbo charged Flathead Ford V-8 proving it will work.

[Lanny]

A tip of the hat to guys like Ronnieroadster, who show the world that he
can build a top notch record holding Ford Flathead racing operation.

That has to take a special person that can spend the money, time and
expertise to do what he has accomplished. Thumbs UP

[tubman]

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Here's a little story that might be interesting to some of you. In the nineties, I ran my Chrysler hemi powered vintage dirt modified in the IMCA "Old Timers" racing club. We ran intermission races at tracks in southern Minnesota and Iowa, and generally had a pretty good time. There were a lot of small block Chevy's a couple of 351 Fords, a track roadster with a nailhead, and a couple of flatheads; you know, the usual mix of stuff. I was not much of a driver, and usually did my best "bench racing" around the late night bonfire.

One night, in Fairmont, MN about 1995, some guys showed up with a '36 Ford 5-window coupe with a flathead Ford. Nobody knew who the were or where they came from. To make a long story short, these guys absolutely "blew our doors off". None of us were even close and these guys dominated that night. We never saw them before, and never saw them again and still have no idea who they were. We were just glad they never showed up again.

Me? I'm sure my car was faster, but I was a terrible driver. "Ol' Ron" even says that in the latter stages, just about all of the increases in lap times came from improvement in handling, not engine changes. I'm going to agree with him.

Yeah, right.

[Lanny]

Hey Denny, Was that '36 A cream white colored 5 window that had tri-power on it ?
In 1999 (if I remember correctly) there was a Big Meet (80 + vintage race cars) held
in Webster City, Ia.
Carter brought YOUR hemi vintage car there to drive it, and I was there with my '40
Ford cp. I had a 276 flathead with a half-assed cam and a couple 94's.
There was this cream colored '36 coupe with a highly modified flathead with 3 97's.
I think he was from northern Missouri, just south of the Iowa border. That car was
driven by the original builder of it. He was a Very Good older seasoned racer and he
wasn't afraid to hang it out in the corners, he knew how to handle that car.

Here's my old '40...Click on pics to Enlarge.

[tubman]

Lanny, It was probably the same car. I don't remember the color, but I do remember it had tri-carbs. The guy could drive, and the car had a lot of power

It's nice to see a couple of pictures of your car again. It was a very well done vehicle and I was always impressed by it. I liked Chuck's '34 as well. Boy, those picture really bring back the memories. Carter was a much better driver than I was (although a bit hard on the equipment), but I had to take it out once in a while.

[flattyefi]

See if I can post this here. A long term project, (17 years) that I finally finished.It's not traditional but it is a Flathead. 4 sequentially activated turbos, efi, coil per cylinder. 214hp @4555rpm and 285ft/lbs @ 3752rpm at the wheels @5lb boost. The maths on drive train losses could lead to 285hp 380ft/lbs at 25% loss, drive train is auto, IRS so maybe.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmL...5leMD-_IJICv5Q

[tubman]

Although "off-topic", I "clicked" on your video, but there wasn't much there (13 seconds).

It seems like a lot of effort for not much return; Joe Abbin in Arizona was able to dyno 335 out of a Weiand (I think) supercharged 284" flathead. I also think he ran 13's in the quarter with it. (I also remember a guy who ran 12's with a 265" injected flathead of his own design in a steel full-bodied '32 coupe.

We need more specific information. This may go nowhere with the rest of the guys here, but I am interested in wringing the last bit of performance out of a flathead, no matter how you do it.

[Pete]

...

[Pete]

Originally Posted by tubman

It seems like a lot of effort for not much return; Joe Abbin in Arizona was able to dyno 335 out of a Weiand (I think) supercharged 284" flathead. I also think he ran 13's in the quarter with it. (I also remember a guy who ran 12's with a 265" injected flathead of his own design in a steel full-bodied '32 coupe.

Ho hum.

[tubman]

"Pete" : Interesting response. Care to elucidate?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by tubman

"Pete" : Interesting response. Care to elucidate?

Elucidating.

1- "It seems like a lot of effort for not much return;"
Yes.

2- "Joe Abbin in Arizona was able to dyno 335 out of a Weiand (I think)
supercharged 284" flathead.supercharged "284" flathead."

Ho hum. A good effort but should have been FAR better for the time
it came. There were quite a few doing that and more in the mid 50's
NATURALLY ASPIRATED on av gas or alcohol.
Many ran between 115 and 120 in the 11's including myself.
These were 2300 lb cars. You can plug those numbers in the formula
and see what kind of hp that was at the rear wheels.

3- As far as the 12 second 32 with a 265 engine, I drove that car once
and it was a real dog. My son drove it the same day and he said the
same thing. It was more like 20 seconds. Must have been a totally
different engine when it did 12's.

4- All of this and more has been discussed here on this forum several
times in the past and can be found easily with the search.

Done elucidating...Ho hum.

[Brian]

1- "It seems like a lot of effort for not much return;"
Yes.

Yes, with a flathead, you'll never spend so much to go so slow...

Actually, I think you guys are too hard on flattyefi...it was his first [and possibly last!] post. I think anyone who plays with flatheads, particularly in a performance type build, deserves appreciation for keeping the legend alive.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Brian

Yes, with a flathead, you'll never spend so much to go so slow...

Actually, I think you guys are too hard on flattyefi...it was his first [and possibly last!] post. I think anyone who plays with flatheads, particularly in a performance type build, deserves appreciation for keeping the legend alive.

It wasn't meant to be a put down, it was just an honest appraisal. The same basic stuff he is playing with is standard on LS and other engines today. He did ok for as far as he went.

[Zeke3]

I would like to see some pictures of the modified hardware on the engine.

[Lanny]

Originally Posted by Zeke3

I would like to see some pictures of the modified hardware on the engine.

I agree, I hope flattyefi comes back with some good pictures and
shares information about his engine build. There are a lot of members
here that would like to see and hear what he has done to his flatty.





.

[flattyefi]

Hi Thanks for the comments some asked for some details so below. Firstly "off topic" the first post asked where the 200hp engines were and then started including posts about turbo cars so I thought it was an OK place to post. Secondly the car wasn't built to be a race car, it's a street hotrod, the challenge was to adapt a whole lot of modern tech to a flathead, its not an LS so I wasn't expecting more than I got, in fact I was quite happy with the outcome, it is fun to drive on the street. I didn't want to become part of a competition.


Specs

Engine 8BA 3 5/16"Bore 4 1/8" Stroke 284 CID
Scat Crank

Scat Rods
Ross Pistons, Navarro Style, High Dome

Isky 400Jr cam
Johnson Adjustable lifters
Valves Manley 1.72" Inlet 1.5" Exhaust. Stock ports except for the larger valves.

Isky Dual Valve Springs
Flat Attack Heads
Manifolds Custom
Intercooler Air to Air Custom.

Electric Fan and Water Pump.
Toyota Supra Fuel Pump with boost referenced regulator

4 by Toyota CT12 Turbos Standard Waste Gates off 1G-GTE Toyota I6. 5psi boost limited.

Turbos Sequentially controlled using 2JZ-GTE parts via Engine Management System.
MegaSquirt MS3X V3.57 Engine Controller.
Sequential Fuel Injection, Ford 30lb Injectors.
Cam Sync Sensor mounts using old crab distributor drive and ProBillet distributor with a single tooth.

Coil Per Cylinder, Mazda RX8 Coils.

Trans Toyota A340E Auto .
Trans Controller MicroSqrt8.



https://photos.app.goo.gl/mfCeNagcUZ6EnKtG6

[tubman]

Thank you for getting back to us on this; it sounds interesting, especially for a street engine.

I sometimes have a problem figuring out what motivates "Pete". You can't discount his experience and skill, though.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by tubman

Thank you for getting back to us on this; it sounds interesting, especially for a street engine.

I sometimes have a problem figuring out what motivates "Pete". You can't discount his experience and skill, though.

What motivates me is I get tired of hearing of people thrashing a street type flathead for more power and performance and not following proven garden paths. Yea, try new stuff along the way but don't ignore the basics.
This project is doomed for early basic parts failure.

If he gets everything sorted out, what he will end up with will develop in excess of 350 hp and be as docile as any parade car ever built.

Remember, we drove 300 hp flatheads back and forth to work every day and raced them on weekends in the early 50's. They were not docile though and we had 104 octane street gas that only cost 30 cents a gallon.

[Will D]

Pretty nifty flattyefi.

[flattyefi]

Thanks. Photo of car.

Coupe.jpg

[Tinker]

Not my bag. But nice work. Lets talk in 5 years.

[JWL]

There are some wild exaggerations posted here so I will caution readers to take it "with a grain of salt", as the old saying goes.

[Zeke3]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Thanks for the photos, that is quite a unique design. Are you going to be at the Street Rod Nationals in Louisville with that in a couple of weeks?

[tubman]

Originally Posted by JWL

There are some wild exaggerations posted here so I will caution readers to take it "with a grain of salt", as the old saying goes.

- I'm thinking of moving to the PNW. It must be the air up there.

[Lanny]

Originally Posted by flattyefi

Thanks. Photo of car.

Attachment 468425

flattyefi, thanks for taking the time to stop back and give us some
details of your engine and car.
That is some pretty unique add-ons you have on the little flatty,
I'm sure you have spent a lot of time to engineer that setup.

Also, I like the Darth Vader look on your chopped 3 window, Nice.
Maybe someone will stop by and enlarge the picture of your car.

Don't be a stranger here, Hope you stick around.




.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Lanny

Maybe someone will stop by and enlarge the picture of your car.

That's easy!

IF that car had a hood on it, it sure would be a L O N G one! DD

[Pete]

Originally Posted by JWL

There are some wild exaggerations posted here so I will caution readers to take it "with a grain of salt", as the old saying goes.

Originally Posted by tubman

- I'm thinking of moving to the PNW. It must be the air up there.

Some time ago I received a call from a colleague,
who asked if I would be the referee on the grading
of an examination question. He was about to give a
student a zero for his answer to a physics
question, while the student claimed he should
receive a perfect score and would if the system
were not set up against the student.

The instructor and the student agreed to an
impartial arbiter, and I was selected. I went to my
colleague's office and read the examination
question: "Show how it is possible to determine the
height of a tall building with the aid of a
barometer."

The student had answered: "Take the barometer to
the top of the building, attach a long rope to it,
lower it to the street, and then bring it up,
measuring the length of the rope. The length of the
rope is the height of the building."

I pointed out that the student really had a strong
case for full credit since he had really answered
the question completely and correctly. On the other
hand, if full credit were given, it could well
contribute to a high grade in his physics course. A
high grade is supposed to certify competence in
physics, but the answer did not confirm this. I
suggested that the student have another try at
answering the question. I was not surprised that my
colleague agreed, but I was surprised when the
student did.

I gave the student six minutes to answer the
question with the warning that the answer should
show some knowledge of physics. At the end
of five minutes, he had not written anything. I
asked if he wished to give up, but he said no. He
had many answers to this problem; he was just
thinking of the best one. I excused myself for
interrupting him and asked him to please go on. In
the next minute, he dashed off his answer which
read: "Take the barometer to the top of the
building and lean over the edge of the roof. Drop
the barometer, timing its fall with a stopwatch.
Then, using the formula x=0.5*a*t**2, calculate the
height of the building."

At this point, I asked my colleague if he would
give up. He conceded, and gave the student almost
full credit. In leaving my colleague's office, I
recalled that the student had said that he had
other answers to the problem, so I asked him what
they were.

"Well," said the student. "there are many ways of
getting the height of a tall building with the aid
of a barometer. For example, you could take the
barometer out on a sunny day and measure the height
of the barometer, the length of its shadow, and the
length of the shadow of the building, and by the
use of simple proportion, determine the height of
the building."

"Fine," I said, "and others?"

"Yes," said the student." There is a very basic
measurement method you will like. In this method,
you take the barometer and begin to walk up the
stairs. As you climb the stairs, you mark off the
length of the barometer along the wall. You then
count the number of marks, and this will give you
the height of the building in barometer units.

"A very direct method."

"Of course. If you want a more sophisticated
method, you can tie the barometer to the end of a
string, swing it as a pendulum, and determine the
value of g at the street level and at the top of
the building. From the difference between the two
values of g, the height of the building, in
principle, can be calculated."

"On this same tack, you could take the barometer to
the top of the building, attach a long rope to it,
lower it to just above the street, and then swing
it as a pendulum. You could then calculate the
height of the building by the period of the
precession".

"Finally," he concluded, "there are many other ways
of solving the problem. Probably the best," he
said, "is to take the barometer to the basement and
knock on the superintendent's door. When the
superintendent answers, you speak to him as
follows: 'Mr. Superintendent, here is a fine
barometer. If you will tell me the height of the
building, I will give you this barometer.'"

At this point, I asked the student if he really did
not know the conventional answer to this question.
He admitted that he did, but said that he was fed
up with high school and college instructors trying
to teach him how to think. He also said he was fed
up with his friends telling him he couldn't do
something he already did and he was thinking about
changing school's.

[Brian]

Good one Pete, and so true! Are you sure you weren't the student? Many of your answers on this forum would suggest so lol.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Brian

Good one Pete, and so true! Are you sure you weren't the student? Many of your answers on this forum would suggest so lol.

No comment.

[Ziggster]

I’m guessing this is the same vid, but why would they repost it just a few days ago? Also, I thought there would more Hp as well with that many cubes.

https://youtu.be/IWxwB9rs_tU

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Ziggster

I’m guessing this is the same vid, but why would they repost it just a few days ago? Also, I thought there would more Hp as well with that many cubes.

https://youtu.be/IWxwB9rs_tU

While it had some cubic inches, it had no work that I could see done in the ports, had stock valves, etc.. The cam was a mild cam as well. Without better air flow, the cubic inches really weren't being "fed" as they could be - so they couldn't make more HP.

All in all, it would be a good street engine - would still be fun in a light roadster.