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Old 11-07-2017, 11:44 AM   #1
glennpm
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Default Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Hi,

Kind of sick over my poor 32 roadster hood fit-up. Driver's side is not bad but passenger's is. Hood can't be pulled down enough on passenger's side panel to close gap at top of cowl. I'm also off about 1/4" short for this side's back hold down hook.

I've measured the hood against dimensions provided by Rootlieb, screen shot attached. My hood agrees with these.

Dimensions from grill shell to top inside of cowl are about 33-3/8" on driver's and a little more on passenger's. Radiator to cowl inside edge at bottom, side to side are about the same at 32-13/16" These spacing dimensions should work for the grill but don't.

Hood and hinge are after market. Grill shell is stock Ford.

Attached pictures are named with descriptions.

Hoping for reasonable suggestions here please.

Last edited by glennpm; 11-07-2017 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Clarify that grill dimensions appear correct
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Old 11-07-2017, 01:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Remove the cowl anty squeak and use something thinner like tape ,then slot the t bracket so the hood slides sideways to the left .try this to get alignment then work out a permanent solution .I would say the hood is wrong ? Ted
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Old 11-07-2017, 02:09 PM   #3
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

That problem is usually due to misalignment of the fenders, cowl, and radiator supports. The cure is to loosen all attaching bolts and shift the front clip so the hood falls into place. If not, it may be due to a misalignment of the frame itself. It doesn't take much of a bump to bend the frame from a mishap sometime in the past. I ran into that when I was reassembling my '47. The left rear end of the frame was slightly bent, but enough to affect the trunk lid and door fit. A session with a Port-A-Power was the answer.
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Old 11-07-2017, 04:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

As stated maybe the center of the rear hinge is off.
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Old 11-07-2017, 04:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Hi,

Thanks for the suggestions.

The hood on the 32 relies on the cowl and radiator, heights and spacing, with no mount on the fenders other than the hood latches. I have plenty of clearance on the bottom to the fenders (or wings ;-) for you UK guys). The hood latch hooks are all aligned excellently vertically with the hood pockets for them. The passenger rear latch needs about a 1/4" shim in order to be able to close it.

Its like I have too much side panel height especially on the passengers side. Maybe the whole cowl would have to be raised requiring the whole body to require shims, thick under cowl and tapering back. The trouble with this shimming, it would cause the gaps to be at an angle, larger at top and smaller at bottom. Gaps are uniform now. Maybe section the hood side panel/s would be less work but still awful.

Last edited by glennpm; 11-07-2017 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 11-07-2017, 05:06 PM   #6
Karl Wescott
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

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Looking at your photos it seems your lacing is way off, and the rear of the hood may not be centered.

First step. Put the hood top only in place WITHOUT the hinge brackets. The fit of the hood surface to the cowl surface is a function of the cowl lacing. If the hood is "right" it should be supported by the lacing and the reveals should align to the cowl. The hood curve is not supported by the hood structure and will conform to the lacing (though occasionally a little bending is helpful). Possible issues include a poorly fitted firewall and incorrectly shaped cowl lacing groove on the firewall (including the groove filled with bondo...).

Second step is to check the height of the hood side, with the top aligning to the upper reveal on the cowl the lower reveals should line up, if not there is a problem with the hood, OR with the cowl (or both). If hood side is hitting the fender you may need to shim the body up.

Third step is to align the gaps of the hood to the cowl and to the radiator shell. This is and integral process with shimming the body and will affect the alignment of the doors.
See our tech discussion on aligning a roadster body (applies to steel just as well as fiberglass) http://wescottsauto.com/WebCatalog/T..._Technical.pdf.

Fourth is to remember to put the hood hinge brackets on... adjusting holes to allow the screws if necessary.

My guess is you have issues with the firewall and/or lacing.

Best of luck
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Old 11-07-2017, 05:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Thank you Karl!

Something reasonable that I can get started with. I had been hoping to get a trial run in before Winter.

Glenn
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:27 AM   #8
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennpm View Post
Thank you Karl!

Something reasonable that I can get started with. I had been hoping to get a trial run in before Winter.

Glenn
Am I missing something or does it appear that everything was painted before the components were fitted?
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:41 AM   #9
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Yes
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:57 AM   #10
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennpm View Post
Yes
WOW!, guess that would be a perfect example of putting the cart before the horse.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:30 AM   #11
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

34pkup & 36grtop
My thoughts exactly when this post first appeared......Ours had pretty much the same issue....the hood top was "tweeked" and needed to be shrinked and worked a little....ALL done and fitted Before painting....BUT....maybe he acquired the car with this issue and has bugged him enough to finally TRY and fix it???
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:53 AM   #12
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Everything else was fitted except hood before paint. No way to do the hood before paint. It is what it is now so looking for constructive comments please.

Rockfla, was your hood a repro and by whom please?
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

No, it is the original hood, being made in Germany, our hood side is different from the US made hoods in that the louvers have a "raised" surround like a Model A. I Also think that the hood tops are "slightly" different too, I cannot confirm that as of yet as the car is Up in North Carolina having the top and interior done....but will examine in depth when we get our car back!!!!! I do know that Routlieb (Spelling) did the repro hood on our friends 32...how long ago I am not sure.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:07 AM   #14
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Thanks that helps. Mine was either from Howell's Sheet Metal or Rootlieb, not sure which.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:13 AM   #15
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Glennpm
I wish I had better info for you, other than what Karl posted and if that doesn't work I suspect that your hood top is "sprung" "tweeked" "Stretched" and is in need of a good panel beater!!! Our friends was such that the time and effort it would take to try and save it and they still couldn't guarantee that it would be any better after his effort SO the Routlieb (or Rootlieb) option was far cheaper!!!! Again, not sure how long ago that was but I know at the time he had to pay extra because of his back log of orders and he needed his back ASAP.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:29 AM   #16
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

My suggestion is to take the hood apart(remove sides from the top panels )and then see how the top snugs down on the cowl and shell to begin with.If there is still an issue just do each to 1/2 with the hinge and brackets screwed down on cowl and rad shell and see how the fittment is.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:34 AM   #17
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

While all my hood fitting experience has been with original hoods, my impression from your photos is that both hood top panels are sprung or incorrectly formed (the right side more so than the left side) and need to be reworked to fit the curvature of the cowl forward edge (assuming that your firewall fits snugly into the cowl opening all along the top edge). I am also assuming that your firewall is an original and not a reproduction.
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:06 AM   #18
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Hi David,

The more I look at it, I'm drawing that same conclusion about the top panels too. I looks like there is too much metal in the top panels and the hinge connections on them seem to be too far down in the back, i.e. leaning at an upward angle from back to front. I'm basing this on undoing the latches, pushing the top panels down and if so, the bottom panels want to overlap the radiator shell. I haven't done any disassembly yet and hate to buy a whole new hood just to test it.

My cowl is an excellent original., no extra holes, not bent and not filled at all in anywhere including the welting area. Same excellent starting condition on my original radiator shell.
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:07 AM   #19
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Glennpm
If it were me.....Deucelover has it right in my mind and David confirmed what I suspect....Its a lot of effort but I would pull your hood and take it apart....Like deuce lover said...lay each top on the cowl and grills shell seperately...you'll know right quick IF its the tops don't fit right!!!
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:58 AM   #20
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Yes, that makes a lot of sense.

Thanks
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Old 11-08-2017, 01:01 PM   #21
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

glennpm
At least IF you find the tops are wonkey you'll have it apart already for repo's if you decide to go that route. Reminder IF you have to replace the tops make sure whoever you get to match the paint "Fits" the sides and accounts for paint thickness at the hinges so you don't chip paint!!!!!
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:16 PM   #22
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Okay, I pulled the hood and disassembled the panels this afternoon. Each of the panels fits correctly by themselves. The side panels may be a little high but that so far is based on eying the hinge center-line to the depressions in the cowl which accommodate the hinges.

I also called Rootlieb late this afternoon and had a great conversation with Tom there. He suggests hinging the two top sections together now and getting them to fit exactly to the radiator and cowl by bending on a table, fit and bend some more. They should be sitting flat with no bowing with even gaps all around. He said to grind the laps on the front and back edges if required. The laps may break if ground a fair bit and if so they'll have to be tacked back on and finessed.

After this top panel fitting, see how the side panels fit. He finds that it is common to have problems with the side panels. They do offer a service to make panels based on customer provided cardboard templates at additional cost.

We also talked about the "25 Henry Louver Sides" that they offer. These are curved through the panel to match the firewall welting and twisted front to back. My 25 louver is flat as are the 20 louver Fords he said. These seem like an interesting option if I need panels.

http://www.rootlieb.com/ford-1932-36-hoods.html
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:49 PM   #23
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Don't get discouraged, I've done a lot of deuces over the years and hood fit has always been a challenge. I've always used Rootlieb and for the most part have been satisfied. To get the perfect gaps we demand these days I've had to trim, section, lengthen etc several of the hoods for my cars. I have the gennie Henry style 25 louver Hood on my 3 window, delivery, roadster and 5 window with good results although I did surgery to the tops on the delivery and 3 window. My painter says I'm a little to anal about the fit but it can make the car.
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Old 11-09-2017, 01:12 PM   #24
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Thanks fro the encouragement Krylon, I need it now!

I. concerned that even after fitting the top panels as I mention above, that the hinge sockets are then not going to line up with the side panel. If I slide the hinge pin back in again, I'm back where I started. I'm thinking along the line of sectioning close to the top of the side panel/s but we'll see. No work on it today.

Glenn
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Old 11-09-2017, 02:16 PM   #25
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

In case you are tempted to use another source's top panels or side panels, I'd be willing to bet that the tabs for the tops to sides hinge pins don't line up right.
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Old 11-09-2017, 03:02 PM   #26
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

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Yes David, I had that thought ;-)

I called back Rootlieb last night and asked them about this and they said, "The side panels will fit our tops"

If I can't get something reasonable going with my pieces, I'll bite the bullet and go with the Rootlieb, "25 Henry Louver Sides". They're pricey, may still not fit and then I've got get them painted so two thousand dollars probably if sheet metal tweaking is not required.

I jsut laid the two top panales on with center hinge slipped in back. Both front corners stand up maybe an inch. I'll take them off, remove the hinge and bend in by hand on a table with a blanket first. Once I get them laying flat on the welting, I'll put some tape on the lower edge of both top panels, lay the side panels in on the outside and make some pencil marks as a guesstimate of where the hinge pocket centerlines are in reference to the same on the top panels. No way to do this on the inside easily that I can think of.

Last edited by glennpm; 11-09-2017 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 11-09-2017, 04:05 PM   #27
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Hmmm.... Your last note got me thinking about your center hinge molding. You indicate that it is a reproduction. I have found reproduction hinge moldings do not work well with original hood top panels as they have less space inside the enclosed area on the underside where the side panels pivot than original hinge moldings.

If you haven't done so already, install your hinge molding on one top panel (only) and see if the panel will rotate in the hinge molding at least somewhat more than would be the case with a perfect hood fit. Repeat that test for the other top panel. If both pass with flying colors, repeat the test with both top panels installed in the hinge molding to see if the two sides are in conflict with one another when the top panels are folded down as with a normal fit on the cowl. If all three of those tests pass with flying colors you can at least eliminate that as a contributing factor. If either tests fail, you will have solved at least half of your fit issues.
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:47 PM   #28
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

everything I ever bought from Howells sheetmetal fit like crap, some I did not even use. cost to much to send back . just my .02
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Old 11-09-2017, 07:04 PM   #29
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Hi David,

Okay, I pulled the hood and disassembled the panels this afternoon. Each of the panels fits correctly by themselves. The side panels may be a little high but that so far is based on eying the hinge center-line to the depressions in the cowl which accommodate the hinges.

I also called Rootlieb late this afternoon and had a great conversation with Tom there. He suggests hinging the two top sections together now and getting them to fit exactly to the radiator and cowl by bending on a table, fit and bend some more. They should be sitting flat with no bowing with even gaps all around. He said to grind the laps on the front and back edges if required. The laps may break if ground a fair bit and if so they'll have to be tacked back on and finessed.

After this top panel fitting, see how the side panels fit. He finds that it is common to have problems with the side panels. They do offer a service to make panels based on customer provided cardboard templates.

We also talked about the "25 Henry Louver Sides" that they offer. These are curved through the panel to match the firewall welting and twisted front to back. My 25 louver is flat as are the 20 louver Fords he said. These seem like an interesting option if I need panels.

http://www.rootlieb.com/ford-1932-36-hoods.html
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Old 11-09-2017, 07:07 PM   #30
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Hi Alaska Jim,

Rootlieb told me that Howell's doesn't and didn't make hoods. It could have been Hooiser's in the mid-west if not Rootlieb. I think but can't confirm that the hood I have is from Rootlieb, bought maybe 30 years ago.
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Old 11-09-2017, 07:45 PM   #31
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

You could try an original Henry hood and center hinge strip. Chances are the problems will go away. See if you can borrow a hood assembly to try. If you need to buy one, they are out there and the cost is not that great considering all the aggravation you are going through. My experience is that original center hinge strip is way better than the best of the repros. Some repros don't work at all, they just bind up and make life miserable. Remember that a 33 hinge strip will work by cutting off 1 inch.
My opinion
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Old 11-09-2017, 08:02 PM   #32
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Had a similar problem, found out the frame was bent forward of the firewall. Have you checked this?
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Old 11-10-2017, 06:52 AM   #33
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Hi Rusty,

Frame is fine. It has been checked.
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Old 11-10-2017, 07:33 AM   #34
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Hi Karl,

Well I found a receipt for my side panels. I bought them from your shop in 1980! I also have a note that the top panels are stock Ford. Do you know if your panels came from Rootlieb or whom at that time?

Thanks

PS I have a LOT of receipts from your shop.
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File Type: jpg Hood Side Panels from Wescott's.jpg (41.7 KB, 26 views)

Last edited by glennpm; 11-12-2017 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 11-10-2017, 03:11 PM   #35
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Hi,

I used my other hood center hinge strip and the hood tops lay down quite well now. I also laid up the lower panels over the top and the front hinge pockets are about 3/8" low on the driver's and 7/16" on the passenger's side. From the picture attached you can see that the front corner by the grill needs to be raised to align with the top panel hinge pockets.

I may be able to fix this by slotting and then sliding the bottom of the radiator bracket out about a little less than that due to the shorter height to length dimensions. I'll figure the trig out later. (figured about 11/32")

Could someone tell me what they have for an inside dimension from the bottom inside edge of the cowl to the inside of the radiator stainless strip please? It is the dimension indicated on my marked up pic below.

Thanks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Hood Side Panels Inside Dimension.jpg (37.6 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN6159.jpg (62.1 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN6150.jpg (49.8 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN6147.jpg (44.9 KB, 61 views)

Last edited by glennpm; 11-10-2017 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 11-12-2017, 08:03 AM   #36
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Anyone of the lower hood opening dimension requested above in thread #35 please?

Any other new suggestions?

Thanks
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Old 11-21-2017, 03:51 PM   #37
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Hi Glenn- the other degrees of freedom you have here are the ability to move the grill fore and aft (I had to slot my radiator feet to allow more adjustment). You can also shim under one or both feet to move the hood center left or right, as well as shimming under the body to move the rear up relative to the front. Also don't forget the radiator steady rods- they can over constrain your system if not adjusted right.

Best of luck!
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Old 11-21-2017, 04:03 PM   #38
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Default Re: Hood Ill Fit-up - 1932

Hi Matt,

I have slotted the grill shell support tabs on the after market radiator since I last posted. This made a substantial difference. Its still not great for gaps, little too close on front and a little too big on back edges, but good for now. No more hump on the passenger's side and the reveals all line up quite well.

Thanks for your input!

Last edited by glennpm; 11-22-2017 at 07:13 AM.
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