Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-16-2016, 12:40 AM   #1
my4dv8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,110
Default French block intake gasket mismatch.

We were looking at a NOS french block yesterday and noticed the intake gasket off by approx 3/16 over the #1,2,3,4 ports the most the other bank not so much. We tried 3 different brand ,( think ,felpro, best ,and unknown ) intake gaskets and all were similar in that the ports appear further near the centre line of the block. Trimming the outside leaves very little gasket there. It's quite a restriction with the overhang.
Are we missing something or need a different offset gasket?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20160616_164804.jpg (44.4 KB, 102 views)
File Type: jpg 20160616_164754.jpg (34.6 KB, 86 views)

Last edited by my4dv8; 06-16-2016 at 01:58 PM.
my4dv8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2016, 05:01 AM   #2
34 FORDOR
Member
 
34 FORDOR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canterbury, New Zealand
Posts: 95
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

I had the same problem. Took a little off the casket on one side and worked on the port on the other with the die grinder and cleaned it up with a flap wheel. I intend to make a new casket for the engine I am building at the moment.
34 FORDOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 06-17-2016, 06:40 AM   #3
Bored&Stroked
Senior Member
 
Bored&Stroked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,009
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

Wow, that casting is way off - which tells me that the manifold is going to have just as much of a miss-match situation. If it is a new block and you haven't machined it yet, I'd be asking the folks that sell them - "what the heck is this???". Are they ALL this bad? Maybe it was the patterns they used and their stock manifolds actually fit?

If you're stuck with it, then I'd probably port the intake ports and manifold to match as close as possible (which will take some work, but won't be too bad).

I'd surely not be happy about this situation if I paid a lot of money for that NOS block. Me, I'd be looking for a good 59AB block where everything is where it is supposed to be.

Good luck and please report back if they are ALL like this.

B&S
Bored&Stroked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2016, 07:44 AM   #4
miwi
Member
 
miwi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 76
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

I used gasket of German G29 they fit
miwi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2016, 07:47 AM   #5
scooder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,593
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

I hear loads about the frog blocks being amazing quality castings, better this, better that and so on. But I have to say that these French blocks sometimes took core shift to another level ! I've look at one with a cracked cylinder wall after a big 3 3/8" bore, "they can all go that big" I've heard said. This one had the crack running down the bore, the wall here was 0.020-0.025" thick, other wall was over 0.20" thick.
I'm not for one minute saying there all like this, as their not, jungle Jims frog block is over 3 3/8" and supercharged, he's built a good few with the big bore without issue.
Just saying when they frog ones have core shift, damn!
Sonic measuring is just as critical with these NOS frog blocks, as it is with 80 year old rusty ones.
Martin.
scooder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2016, 07:49 AM   #6
uncle max
Senior Member
 
uncle max's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SLC Utah
Posts: 798
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Best Gasket will sell you a blank gasket that you can cut however you need. Ask for Armand.
__________________
RIP Tyler... My Son, Helper & Best Friend.
Feb '78 to Father's Day '10.
www.97-express.com ~ [email protected]
uncle max is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2016, 10:20 AM   #7
Bored&Stroked
Senior Member
 
Bored&Stroked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,009
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

As Scooder said - what you're seeing is usually caused by a core shift problem at the foundry. Things were not setup correctly and/or they moved/shifted on the pour. I've never built a French Flathead - so I don't know if they vary a lot, if some are spot on, etc..

I would be concerned about core shifting in OTHER places in the engine - like the bores. If it is an engine block you're stuck with - have it sonic tested to see if the cylinder walls have shifted as well. I'd also put a head gasket on it - checking how things align on that area.

If it is a block that you can return for a "better one", then that is what I'd do. One should not have to pay the high prices of these French Blocks - only to see that amount of misalignment on critical surfaces.

Consider that even if you make a new gasket - it surely doesn't solve the problem of core shift, nor does it fix all the manifolds that now don't correctly fit. One has to wonder about the rest of the engine . . . makes me nervous to even think about it.

Best of luck . . .
Bored&Stroked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2016, 01:51 PM   #8
my4dv8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,110
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

Core shift does seem likely , however 5 6 7 8 ports are much closer to being acceptable.
my4dv8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2016, 03:01 PM   #9
Charlie ny
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,019
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

When the French blocks were first being shopped around the 'word' was the intake
runners were intentionally small to restrict breathing to keep this a long lived
low perf motor. I talked to the guys at Motor City Flathead at the DeuceFest in Dearborn in 2007 and they concurred.
These castings are great, but if you suspect core shift check how the machined lifter bores balance with that area of the casting.
Charlie ny
Charlie ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2016, 03:08 PM   #10
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,732
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

The part of the intake runners that is intentionally small is the bowl area. I have a French block in my shed. I'll drop a gasket on and see how the port runner alignment looks. I did not notice a problem like that on the French motor currently in my roadster.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2016, 03:18 PM   #11
Brian
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Masterton, New Zealand
Posts: 3,816
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

I can echo the sentiments on here about core shift; on my FF, I ported into water whilst removing those reduced areas of the valve pockets, I had intended to bore it big, but it was apparent that on some cylinders there was more meat on one side and less on the other side, and would've hit water there too.....
I understand from reading on the internet, that intake mis-alignment like you've discovered is all too common with these animals.
Damn Frenchman- remember the Rainbow Warrior!!
__________________
Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!
Brian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2016, 04:10 PM   #12
FlatheadTed
Senior Member
 
FlatheadTed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auckland
Posts: 4,691
Send a message via AIM to FlatheadTed
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

Here's a possible fix cut the gasket along the between the heat risers ,dremml the stud holes ,stretch it open to meet the inlets runners ,glue it down .These Gaskets have a tendency to shrink ,
Considering the innovation of marrying the late block fetchers with the early blocks webbing ect I think they were well thought out and obviously made for there manifolds ,there are quiet a few of these blocks used here and no word of core shift yet .They had forty years of engine casting development by the time production ceased. The Europeans were quite good at getting horse power out of small fours ,and were well advanced in combustion /flow matters remember Esslinger .The small port runners would retain low down toque ideal for a truck motor and as charley said a possible life extension well thought out and obviously suited the Military .So I don't think its a mistake for a minuet ,Ted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie ny View Post
When the French blocks were first being shopped around the 'word' was the intake
runners were intentionally small to restrict breathing to keep this a long lived
low perf motor. I talked to the guys at Motor City Flathead at the DeuceFest in Dearborn in 2007 and they concurred.
These castings are great, but if you suspect core shift check how the machined lifter bores balance with that area of the casting.
Charlie ny
Attached Images
File Type: jpg John shelor_1525.jpg (41.3 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg John shelor_1526.jpg (59.1 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg John shelor_1528.jpg (71.4 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg John shelor_1530.jpg (43.2 KB, 51 views)
__________________
http://www.flatheadted.com


Flathead Ted brake Floaters ,

Last edited by FlatheadTed; 06-17-2016 at 06:07 PM.
FlatheadTed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2016, 04:28 PM   #13
Bluebell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 726
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

My 4dv8, would it be worth making an up an adapter plate (and custom bottom gasket) now that you have this engine built this far?
Just to help you have some space to attempt to line up the ports a little better?
Just a thought.
Another thought is that maybe the supplier will supply a good gratis block and leave you with the one you have???
Bluebell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2016, 04:26 AM   #14
bob miller
Senior Member
 
bob miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: france
Posts: 141
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

I have an original gasket kit for french flathead , i show you his original form .http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attach...1&d=1466241831

the original new gasket is at the bottom ( the clear one) the other at the top is an old one and you can see differences with water holes .
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1180475.jpg (54.2 KB, 78 views)
bob miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2016, 04:32 AM   #15
bob miller
Senior Member
 
bob miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: france
Posts: 141
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

the original gasket kit

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attach...1&d=1466242190

By expérience I know 3 differents block foundry . i suspected évolutions by the time .
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1180474.jpg (50.6 KB, 38 views)
bob miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2016, 05:44 AM   #16
scooder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,593
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob miller View Post
I have an original gasket kit for french flathead , i show you his original form .http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attach...1&d=1466241831

the original new gasket is at the bottom ( the clear one) the other at the top is an old one and you can see differences with water holes .
Water holes??? B'aint be no water holes in the intake gasket or manifold or this area of the block.
I can see the exhaust heat riser holes are different size though.
Martin.
scooder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2016, 07:21 AM   #17
bob miller
Senior Member
 
bob miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: france
Posts: 141
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooder View Post
Water holes??? B'aint be no water holes in the intake gasket or manifold or this area of the block.
I can see the exhaust heat riser holes are different size though.
Martin.
exact , water in the intake = big problem
bob miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2016, 10:37 AM   #18
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,732
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

I just dropped a 59A style gasket over the French block in my shed and everything aligned nicely. I don't know what happened in the case of the block shown in the original post, but it would appear that not all French blocks are like that. (Thankfully).
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2016, 04:17 PM   #19
Bluebell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 726
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

Flathead Ted, that block in the photo you posted, is different from the one I have seen with the big ugly governor housing at the back. I never knew there was more than one sort of French block (I am a learner!)

Your one is much better!

Bob M. Are you saying there are 3 different types of French blocks?

Do they have their own matching manifolds? or is this one still a faulty casting?

Last edited by Bluebell; 06-18-2016 at 04:23 PM.
Bluebell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2016, 06:50 PM   #20
JSeery
Member Emeritus
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 16,132
Default Re: French block intake gasket mismatch.

The rear is machined to remove the part you are refer to.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:38 AM.