Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-18-2015, 02:15 PM   #1
exoilfld
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: alto, tx
Posts: 127
Default 47 brake problems

On my 47 pu, I have new drums, shoes, wheel cyls., line, hoses, and master cyl. Adjusted the shoes as tight as I can make them and bled the system 3 times. the first stroke of the pedal goes almost to the floor. The second stroke gives a good hard pedal. The only other adjustment I can think of is the master cyl rod. I left about 1/8 inch or less play before it starts pushing the cyl. Anyone have any ideas?
exoilfld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 03:21 PM   #2
exoilfld
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: alto, tx
Posts: 127
Default Re: 47 brake problems

No, I adjusted the brakes after bleeding just tight enough to have some drag but not so the wheel would not turn.
exoilfld is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 10-18-2015, 03:25 PM   #3
exoilfld
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: alto, tx
Posts: 127
Default Re: 47 brake problems

The brakes on 47 do not have an adjustment at the bottom, just the upper adjustment. I wonder how the MC rod should be adjusted.
exoilfld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 03:28 PM   #4
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 7,430
Default Re: 47 brake problems

I would adjust the shoes to the same amount of drag as you did.....BEFORE bleeding. A 1/16" on the pushrod should be sufficient. Make sure pedal and push rod completely retract via spring. DD
__________________
T5 W/TORQUE TUBE


We WILL discover aliens on another planet...and the 'nutsoids' will surely-enough be sending $TRILLION$ of our bucks in aid!
V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 03:39 PM   #5
V8 Bob
Senior Member
 
V8 Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Granger (Northern) Indiana
Posts: 1,343
Default Re: 47 brake problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by exoilfld View Post
The brakes on 47 do not have an adjustment at the bottom, just the upper adjustment. I wonder how the MC rod should be adjusted.
If the pedal positively returns to it's stop (with a return spring), a 1/32"-1/16" push rod gap is all you need. The actual gap, times the pedal ratio, equals the pedal "free play", so you want to keep the gap as small as possible.
It sounds like you may still have some air in the system, if the brakes are all adjusted properly, and, there are no leaks.
V8 Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 04:12 PM   #6
Ford Freak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Pittsford NY. USA
Posts: 808
Default Re: 47 brake problems

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
As V8 Bob said - you still have some air in the system .
Believe me , I've been there many times . Keep on bleeding , it will come out .
Ford Freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 04:17 PM   #7
Lanny
Senior Member
 
Lanny's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mn
Posts: 1,812
Default Re: 47 brake problems

Did you bench bleed the new Master cyl first, to get the air out of it ?










.
__________________
I live on tuff street, the further ya go,
the tuffer they git,
I live in the last house on the block !!!
___________________________________________

You bet ya, I wear the pants in My family --------
So What, if She tells me which ones to wear ?
Lanny is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 04:46 PM   #8
Old Henry
Senior Member
 
Old Henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Orem, Utah
Posts: 5,616
Default Re: 47 brake problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny View Post
Did you bench bleed the new Master cyl first, to get the air out of it ?.
That was my thought too, not air still in the brake lines. If you had that the brakes would not be a "hard pedal" as you said on the second push. They'd always be "spongy".

Having to "pump up" the brakes with two pushes as you describe sounds like a shoe somewhere is still not adjusted up close enough to the drum.
__________________
Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome)
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end. *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness
Old Henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 08:10 PM   #9
exoilfld
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: alto, tx
Posts: 127
Default Re: 47 brake problems

I guess I will bleed some more. Don't know how to bleed the MC, just at the wheel cyls. I might try adjusting the shoes until they lock the drums and see what difference that makes on the pedal. Sounds like I have about the right adj. on the push rod.
exoilfld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 08:21 PM   #10
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 7,430
Default Re: 47 brake problems

I don't think that's a wise way to try to bleed the system. You may end-up not being able to get the shoes to retract to the nominal adjustment spot because of the EXTRA volume (in each wheel cylinder) downstream of the check mechanism. Adjust the shoes precisely (barely rubbing), then bleed! DD
__________________
T5 W/TORQUE TUBE


We WILL discover aliens on another planet...and the 'nutsoids' will surely-enough be sending $TRILLION$ of our bucks in aid!
V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 08:28 PM   #11
Talkwrench
Senior Member
 
Talkwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,561
Default Re: 47 brake problems

If a single circuit system no need to bench bleed. also DO NOT push the pedal all the way to the floor when bleeding, put a bit of wood or something behind it. Speed bleeders are your best friend. http://www.speedbleeder.com/
__________________
"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"
Talkwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 11:50 PM   #12
Lanny
Senior Member
 
Lanny's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mn
Posts: 1,812
Default Re: 47 brake problems

I put a Wagner rebuilt Single Pot master cyl in a '64 Comet a few years
ago, and the instructions said to bench bleed it before installing in vehicle,
was Wagner wrong









.
__________________
I live on tuff street, the further ya go,
the tuffer they git,
I live in the last house on the block !!!
___________________________________________

You bet ya, I wear the pants in My family --------
So What, if She tells me which ones to wear ?
Lanny is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 12:12 AM   #13
Old Henry
Senior Member
 
Old Henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Orem, Utah
Posts: 5,616
Default Re: 47 brake problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny View Post
I put a Wagner rebuilt Single Pot master cyl in a '64 Comet a few years
ago, and the instructions said to bench bleed it before installing in vehicle,
was Wagner wrong

.
That is the same instructions that came with the master cylinder I bought from NAPA for my 47.

Here is one bench bleeding procedure: http://s7d9.scene7.com/is/content/Ge...29488pdf?$PDF$

Here are the installation instructions for my 47 MC that includes the bench bleeding procedure: http://s7d9.scene7.com/is/content/Ge...62928pdf?$PDF$
__________________
Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome)
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end. *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness

Last edited by Old Henry; 10-19-2015 at 12:21 AM.
Old Henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 07:56 AM   #14
Cecil/WV
Senior Member
 
Cecil/WV's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gerrardstown, WV
Posts: 2,211
Default Re: 47 brake problems

For me, if I already have working brakes and am just replacing the master cyl, I have found that a bench bleed will almost always eliminate any further bleeding.
Cecil/WV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 02:07 PM   #15
exoilfld
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: alto, tx
Posts: 127
Default Re: 47 brake problems

I give up! I have adjusted and readjusted the shoes and bled 5 gallon of fluid through the system and I still have to pump the pedal to have brakes. I had no problem with my 41,38, or 40, but this one has beat me.
exoilfld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 02:38 PM   #16
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 15,444
Default Re: 47 brake problems

Any way you have a wheel cylinder(s) leaking, that is a fairly common issue with the newer ones? There is a procedure for installing them to over come this.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 03:29 PM   #17
George/Maine
Senior Member
 
George/Maine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mid coast Maine
Posts: 1,878
Default Re: 47 brake problems

I always adjust the brakes first when done should have slide drag. Then make sure you have a returns spring on pedal. What I do is crack the bleeder little so to leak out and pump and see good puddle of fluid on ground don't let pedal go to floor and keep mc full, close the blender and do the same to other ones. Test drive
George/Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 03:43 PM   #18
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 7,430
Default Re: 47 brake problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by George/Maine View Post
I always adjust the brakes first when done should have slide drag. Then make sure you have a returns spring on pedal. What I do is crack the bleeder little so to leak out and pump and see good puddle of fluid on ground don't let pedal go to floor and keep mc full, close the blender and do the same to other ones. Test drive
Soooo.......you're sayin' you just crack the bleeders one at a time, let it squirt out some, and just end-up with four good puddles of fluid on the ground? Don't get no simpler 'n that. DD
__________________
T5 W/TORQUE TUBE


We WILL discover aliens on another planet...and the 'nutsoids' will surely-enough be sending $TRILLION$ of our bucks in aid!
V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 04:08 PM   #19
exoilfld
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: alto, tx
Posts: 127
Default Re: 47 brake problems

Just read a thread from a senior member from 2011, said he was having the same problem. He thought it was defective MS's(had replaced 2 new ones). I messaged him and asked how he resolved the problem. Have not head back yet.
exoilfld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2015, 06:09 PM   #20
1931 flamingo
Senior Member
 
1931 flamingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: new britain,ct 06052
Posts: 8,830
Default Re: 47 brake problems

Which wheel are you bleeding first, second, etc?? How much free play in the pedal?? Original style M/C??
Paul in CT
1931 flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:49 AM.