The forgotten 1960 Fords

[mercman from oz]

You don't see many 1960 Fords these days. This model was never sold in Australia, but over the years, a few have found their way here. When released, it has been stated that they were a fraction wider than some States allowed, which meant that they couldn't be sold in some States until this problem was sorted out. Style wise, they were one year ahead of Chevrolet by eliminating the "dog-leg" windscreen pillar. This model also saw Ford do away with the round taillights, but they would revert back to round taillights again in 1961. This survivor 1960 Ford Galaxie Sedan was for sale at Del Mar this year. It is a pity that more of this model are not seen, as they are quite a nice looking car, although many will disagree with me?

[Ford Freak]

I have always liked the '60 model Ford ! Wish there were more around my area .

[Ole Don]

The 60 two door hardtop is one of the prettiest cars ever built by anybody.

[40 Deluxe]

That rear 3/4 view shows Ford's lame attempt to copy '59 Chevy tail fins. I thought they were ugly in 1960 and still do. But, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Just my opinion.

[streetdreams]

With the roof trim it looks like a 4 dr Starliner. I've got a '60 Starliner I'll never part with. Had a '60 Sunliner when I was a kid. Love '60 fords. Like 40 Deluxe says, you either love 'em or hate 'em. Nobody seems in the middle on them.

[miker98038]

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If you go back and look at the numbers, we had a recession ending in 1958, a Fed rate increase in 1959, and another recession in 1960. Economy didn't recover till 1962. Car sales for all makes reflect that. So the small numbers of 60's fords had to compete with the 61's and 62's at the bottom of the used market. By then, an old 61 Starliner or Thunderbird wasn't a lot more than a 1960, and a lot better looking. Go to all all Chevy show and the lack of 59 and 60 chevy's also reflect this. Add in the lack of performance of the early 332 and 352 FE's (I know there were some exceptions, but they were rare) and a couple years newer with a 390 made more sense. Like the Edsel, some of it was the luck of the draw on the economy.

At the end of the useful life, that's the difference between being saved and being crushed.

[scicala]

To me, the real prize for a '60 Ford would be the Custom 300 2 door sedan with the 352/360 HP special high perf engine. Or a Sunliner/Starliner with the same engine.

Sal

[raceron1120]

My first car was a '60 Ford 2 door post, in 1965.

[Lanny]

Wouldn't you hate to be caught driving this ugly thing in public ???

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Click on pic to Enlarge.
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[miker98038]

Yes, Sal. An acquaintance has a 60, 61, and 62, all original numbers matching cars. I really don't remember the particulars, but they are all the high performance (and I think tri power) FE's. Pretty rare, and not overly restored. Keeping with "period correct" the Stanley thermos in the trunk is normally full of gin martinis.

[willowbilly3]

Originally Posted by miker98038

Yes, Sal. An acquaintance has a 60, 61, and 62, all original numbers matching cars. I really don't remember the particulars, but they are all the high performance (and I think tri power) FE's. Pretty rare, and not overly restored. Keeping with "period correct" the Stanley thermos in the trunk is normally full of gin martinis.

For those of us thick between the ears, please explain numbers matching on a Ford.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by willowbilly3

For those of us thick between the ears, please explain numbers matching on a Ford.

While it's true that Ford didn't put matching serial numbers on major drivetrain parts like some other manufacturers... there are specific casting numbers on many of those parts, along with date codes. These numbers and codes do allow you to determine the year the part was (first) used and in most/some cases, the date the part was made.
With the date code from the ID plate of the car, if the casting and date codes of the misc cast parts fall within a period of 30 to 60 days before the car was built, and the part was originally available on that model, those parts are generally considered to be 'matching'.

Also... most serial number/data plates have code letters & numbers for the 'as built' options in the drivetrain in addition to exterior & interior colors and maybe some other options.
If the car and it's driveline parts, options, etc. appear as listed on it's data plate the car can be said to be 'numbers matching'.

Here are several links to help determine what may be 'matching'. Most apply to the late 50's cars (found them in relation to the car I'm working on) but if you need info about newer/other cars just do an internet search for it.

http://www.fordification.com/tech/pa...s_overview.htm

http://www.fordification.com/tech/datecodes.htm

http://www.y-block.info/castings.html

http://ford-y-block.com/technical.htm

https://thecvaonline.com/howtos/DataPlateDecoder.pdf

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...INdecode-1.htm

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...49-59partA.htm

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...49-59partB.htm

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[willowbilly3]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

While it's true that Ford didn't put matching serial numbers on major drivetrain parts like some other manufacturers... there are specific casting numbers on many of those parts, along with date codes. These numbers and codes do allow you to determine the year the part was (first) used and in most/some cases, the date the part was made.
With the date code from the ID plate of the car, if the casting and date codes of the misc cast parts fall within a period of 30 to 60 days before the car was built, and the part was originally available on that model, those parts are generally considered to be 'matching'.

Also... most serial number/data plates have code letters & numbers for the 'as built' options in the drivetrain in addition to exterior & interior colors and maybe some other options.
If the car and it's driveline parts, options, etc. appear as listed on it's data plate the car can be said to be 'numbers matching'.

Here are several links to help determine what may be 'matching'. Most apply to the late 50's cars (found them in relation to the car I'm working on) but if you need info about newer/other cars just do an internet search for it.

http://www.fordification.com/tech/pa...s_overview.htm

http://www.fordification.com/tech/datecodes.htm

http://www.y-block.info/castings.html

http://ford-y-block.com/technical.htm

https://thecvaonline.com/howtos/DataPlateDecoder.pdf

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...INdecode-1.htm

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...49-59partA.htm

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...49-59partB.htm

.

I do somewhat understand Ford's numbering system. "Numbers matching" was once a term only used by the GM people, where it means something completely different. On GM you could tell if major components were the one's a car left the factory with. On a Ford you can only tell if the part number and date code are consistent with ones built within a time frame the car would have been manufactured in. So a diligent restorer of a Ford can install a different part and still have it be consistent with the numbering system. On a GM, that's not possible. So even though the term has crept out of the GM camp and over to ours, it isn't the same thing. To the best of my understanding.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by willowbilly3

... "Numbers matching" was once a term only used by the GM people, where it means something completely different. On GM you could tell if major components were the one's a car left the factory with. On a Ford you can only tell if the part number and date code are consistent with ones built within a time frame the car would have been manufactured in. So a diligent restorer of a Ford can install a different part and still have it be consistent with the numbering system. On a GM, that's not possible. So even though the term has crept out of the GM camp and over to ours, it isn't the same thing. ...

Yes, you are correct.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by willowbilly3

I do somewhat understand Ford's numbering system. "Numbers matching" was once a term only used by the GM people, where it means something completely different.

On GM you could tell if major components were the one's a car left the factory with. On a Ford you can only tell if the part number and date code are consistent with ones built within a time frame the car would have been manufactured in. So a diligent restorer of a Ford can install a different part and still have it be consistent with the numbering system. On a GM, that's not possible. So even though the term has crept out of the GM camp and over to ours, it isn't the same thing. To the best of my understanding.

OK... Some BOW-TIE NUT is going to have to explain to me their version of numbers matching.

All manufacturers had to stamp VEHICLE VIN NOS (partial) on 68 up cars (engine-trans) as a means to thwart chop shops and that would give true meaning of NUMBERS CORRECT as I see it.

GM could not have stamped the VIN on every assembly part, other than an ID casting no. system similar to FOMOCO.

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[willowbilly3]

Originally Posted by miker98038

Yes, Sal. An acquaintance has a 60, 61, and 62, all original numbers matching cars. I really don't remember the particulars, but they are all the high performance (and I think tri power) FE's. Pretty rare, and not overly restored. Keeping with "period correct" the Stanley thermos in the trunk is normally full of gin martinis.

Numbers matching is chevy talk, there is no such thing in the Ford world other than having consistent date codes. Not the same though.

When I was young, I didn't think much of a 60, pretty ugly IMO. But a 60 Starliner could set in my garage anyday, Kinda like a Mustang, any coupe or convertible is a yawn but a 2+2 is pretty cool.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by willowbilly3

Numbers matching is chevy talk, there is no such thing in the Ford world other than having consistent date codes. Not the same though.

Again... ... a statement such as this is IMO.

To have a correctly assembled car, the Casting ID Nos (assembly parts not service parts), Date Code And foundry code must be correct or it (FORD-LINC-MERC) is not a NUMBERS CORRECT CAR. It must also match the build sheet if one is available or the owner may be hiding it.

Take for just an example, a 61 FORD 390 4V 375HP that came through with the Tri-Power in the trunk for dealer assy. Both engines (375 4V or 401HP 6V) will have the same engine code). The seller would need a factory build sheet to claim the car was a true 3X2 401HP.

ADDED INFO-

Here is one example of determining a MATCHING NUMBERS car-

http://www.vtohtx.com/M_Code_3_page_Fact_Sheet__v2_.pdf

[willowbilly3]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Again... ... a statement such as this is IMO.

To have a correctly assembled car, the Casting ID Nos (assembly parts not service parts), Date Code And foundry code must be correct or it (FORD-LINC-MERC) is not a NUMBERS CORRECT CAR. It must also match the build sheet if one is available or the owner may be hiding it.

Take for just an example, a 61 FORD 390 4V 375HP that came through with the Tri-Power in the trunk for dealer assy. Both engines (375 4V or 401HP 6V) will have the same engine code). The seller would need a factory build sheet to claim the car was a true 3X2 401HP.

ADDED INFO-

Here is one example of determining a MATCHING NUMBERS car-

http://www.vtohtx.com/M_Code_3_page_Fact_Sheet__v2_.pdf

True but also Ford ran batches of intakes, heads ect You could very easi;y have parts with date codes 2-3 months older than the build date of the car I did read that whole article, very interest but nothing really on numbers matching Maybe you could clue me in on what numbers are supposed to match

[Motorhead6]

Purist collectors WILL INDEED demand correct date codes and casting numbers on certain rare Fords. Also, there are certain numbers stamped into high performance blocks, for example, that identify them as such. A friend showed me this recently on a Super Cobra Jet block which allowed the potential buyer to identify it as "the one" he had when new. I agree that some GM models can have matching serial numbers such as the same as the VIN on some components, but I think most do not; I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I think I'm right that not very many GM models can claim this other than that, like Ford and MoPar, certain components can be identified to correct models but not a specific car or truck.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by willowbilly3

True but also Ford ran batches of intakes, heads ect You could very easi;y have parts with date codes 2-3 months older than the build date of the car I did read that whole article, very interest but nothing really on numbers matching

Maybe you could clue me in on what numbers are supposed to match

You mean before vehicle assembly date, correct?

You will also have an engine (or any other component) assembly date. Much will depend on the actual vehicle assembly plant.

Let me go a little farther and hope it doesn't add to the confusion.

ENGINEERING PART NUMBERS- There is actually more than one. What you see stamped/cast onto the part identifies the base part. There is another PN assigned for differing machining protocol and/or assembly and yet another if the part is included in an assembly, say intake manifold with all attaching parts ready for complete engine assembly.

One example is the ECZ-B 4V intake that has a vacuum provision on the front runner.

As for GM numbers matching, I would a$$-u-me that they are much like FORD, casting/stamping ID NOS and these would be converted to actual Service PN's. If you mean VIN ID on the actual part(s), all manufacturers were required to ID major components beginning in 1968.

The greatest example(s) of non number matching cars to me is the Resto-Mods you see in auction houses not being what they claim to be and bringing in big bucks. It is like flipping houses with poor quality workmanship and materials. The owner will not be aware of it until years afterwards.

I don't know how to explain it more exactly than what I have. Sorry...

Originally Posted by Motorhead6

Purist collectors WILL INDEED demand correct date codes and casting numbers on certain rare Fords. Also, there are certain numbers stamped into high performance blocks, for example, that identify them as such. A friend showed me this recently on a Super Cobra Jet block which allowed the potential buyer to identify it as "the one" he had when new. I agree that some GM models can have matching serial numbers such as the same as the VIN on some components, but I think most do not; I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I think I'm right that not very many GM models can claim this other than that, like Ford and MoPar, certain components can be identified to correct models but not a specific car or truck.

THANX!

I need all the help I can get...

Also note that Service Replacement Parts will not normally be the same a assembly parts. This really shows on HP engine assemblies.