Problems starting when hot

[moonraker]

Dear friends, I took my '39 Fordor for a short trip around Moscow and everything was fine until I got stuck in a traffic jam. The temp crept to ~200 degrees. Then I accidentally stalled the engine and it didn't want to start with a starter. The smell of gas was an indication of no spark. I asked bystanders to push the car and it started immediately. Can you tell me what the cause possibly be?
Thanks in advance!

[19Fordy]

Any loose wires or bad grounds?
Did you "pop the clutch" to get it started again while being pushed?

[Vics Stuff]

When you indicate that it did not start , would the engine turn over with using the starter and engine would not start or did the starter not even turn over the engine.
Vic

[moonraker]

Originally Posted by Vics Stuff

When you indicate that it did not start , would the engine turn over with using the starter and engine would not start or did the starter not even turn over the engine.
Vic

Sorry, forgot to mention - the starter had difficulty turning the engine the first one or two turns and then it continued to turn the engine with now problems, as fast as it does when cold.

[richard crow]

do they have reg gas in russia or the ethnal crap if you pushed it & it started it might have flooded or the gas boiled

[moonraker]

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Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Any loose wires or bad grounds?
Did you "pop the clutch" to get it started again while being pushed?

All wires look fine, I have battery kill switch on ground terminal with ground two ground wires - one to the body and one to the stud on a passenger cylinder head


Can you explain what "pop the clutch" means? I press the clutch, shifted into the second gear, once people pushed the car fast fast enough, I released the clutch - it started right away.

[moonraker]

Originally Posted by richard crow

do they have reg gas in russia or the ethnal crap if you pushed it & it started it might have flooded or the gas boiled

we are lucky so far - no ethanol gas in mandated and sold in Russia. In some rural areas you can still get 78 octane gas, but it's being phased out by refineries.
I don't think I flooded it since I know how to start hot carburated engine - with the gas pedal held to the floor

[51504bat]

Originally Posted by moonraker

All wires look fine, I have battery kill switch on ground terminal with ground two ground wires - one to the body and one to the stud on a passenger cylinder head


Can you explain what "pop the clutch" means? I press the clutch, shifted into the second gear, once people pushed the car fast fast enough, I released the clutch - it started right away.

That would be popping the clutch

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by moonraker

All wires look fine, I have battery kill switch on ground terminal with ground two ground wires - one to the body and one to the stud on a passenger cylinder head


Can you explain what "pop the clutch" means? I press the clutch, shifted into the second gear, once people pushed the car fast fast enough, I released the clutch - it started right away.

This is what it means in American slang.

[moonraker]

Originally Posted by 51504bat

That would be popping the clutch

thanks for clarification!

[moonraker]

Originally Posted by JSeery

This is what it means in American slang.

Thanks! a new entry in my vocabulary of American slang. "Pop some tags", "pop the clutch"...

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by moonraker

Thanks! a new entry in my vocabulary of American slang. "Pop some tags", "pop the clutch"...

Ok, now I have to ask, what does "Pop some tags" refer to?

[tubman]

Sounds like a marginal coil to me. The coil becomes hot and looses some of it's "zing". It will run all right when it's the only thing taking electricity, but when you add up the extra load imposed by starting a hot engine, there's just not enough there to turn it over and produce enough spark from a coil in a degraded condition.

[19Fordy]

moonraker, I suspect that your starter needs to be rebuild or that your battery needs replacement. With a good fully charged battery the starter should keep cranking.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Ok, now I have to ask, what does "Pop some tags" refer to?

Al Gore's internet says: 'Pop some tags' means that you're swapping one price label for a cheaper price label in a store.

[grumppyoldman]

Check the ballast resistor under the dash, if it has one. My 41 would do the same as what you described. I cleaned all the grounds and connections on the fuse block where the resistor is locatedfd and no more hard hot starts. Do this first before buying more parts. Good luck Al

[moonraker]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Al Gore's internet says: 'Pop some tags' means that you're swapping one price label for a cheaper price label in a store.

yep, that's what it means.

[moonraker]

Thanks everyone for your input, I really appreciate this!
the battery is fresh, the starter has about 2000 mi on it, should be fine.

I'll start with checking ballast resistor and all the wires. Can this problem be attributed to a coil condenser?

[Will D]

....

[moonraker]

Ok, I don't have a spare coil, but I have a spare condenser. I'll replace it and see if it helps

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by moonraker

thanks for clarification!

To me popping the clutch means to push or let the
car roll down a hill with clutch pushed in and when
it is rolling take your foot off fast and the engine
turns over and hopefully starts. When I was 16 this
was the normal method of starting every day, never
had a good battery. G.M.

[Mart]

Pop the clutch. = lift your foot off the clutch pedal quickly. Also known as dump the clutch.
To start while pushing - push start or sometimes bump start.

If it started when push starting, but not when using the starter to tun the motor it might indicate a heavy current draw on the starter. Poor earth (ground) maybe?

Plenty of volts in the battery to start it when pushing, not enough volts left for the ignition when starting on the starter.

You said slow to turn at first. Could also indicate poor earth. Don't forget where the starter bolts to the oil pan needs to be clean metal, not painted.

Lots of heat in the starter won't help. Lots of heat under the hood when in heavy city traffic.

If running in heavy traffic don't switch off if you can avoid it.

Mart.

[JSeery]

Also, when the ballast resistor is hot, it is reducing the voltage to the coil more than when it is cold. So you have the voltage pulled down by the starter draw and the ballast resistor at maximum resistance. That's what's nice about the later ballast by-pass when the key was in start, but no help here!

[JM 35 Sedan]

It's been my experience with working on these early Ford's for some years now, that many of the original coils have some degree of wire insulation degradation, which allows coil windings to begin shorting under heated conditions. This causes weak, intermittent spark at plugs, or sometimes a complete failure. My suggestion would be to have an original coil rebuilt by rewinding with modern magnet wire that uses a higher temperature, higher grade insulation. Not sure if you know where this could be done in your country, but in the US we have Skip Haney, in Punta Gorda, Florida who does a very good job of this at what I'd consider a reasonable price.