Engine block VIN number question?

[corndog]

I am finally getting some time to look over my recent 31 roadster "barn find" and one of the first things I want to do is start the process to get a title. I cleaned off the stamping surface on the block and I cannot tell if the first digit is an A or a 4. It was my understanding that all Model A VIN numbers started with "A". If that is true then I have an A and 6 numerals. If that's not true then I have seven numerals. To me it looks more like a 4 than an A. I want to be sure what I have before I call the police out to the house to check it. Any help is appreciated!

[Rock Hornbuckle]

'31 should have seven digits, unless there has been an engine swap.

[Steve Plucker]

Can you post a photo?

Pluck

[Barry B./ Ma.]

There should be a star followed by "A" then seven numbers and an "A" on the end on an original 31. The engine numbers originally were transferred to the top of the frame at assembly.

[1931 flamingo]

Any previous pa/work, reg or bill of sale from the previous owner??
Paul in CTfrom the previous owner??
Paul

[corndog]

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I didnt get a title from the guy I bought it from. He inherited it from his Dad and never found a title. Here is a picture of the block stamping.

[whirnot]

Looks like a 4 to me.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by whirnot

Looks like a 4 to me.

And it looks like a re-stamp. Sears Roebuck and others sold rebuilt Model A engines back in the day which were "blank." The thought being you re-stamped your old number into the box. No stars, no A on this indicates to me that this one was done "in the field."

Not a bad thing - unless your Title Nazi decides to make it one. Best would be to know your frame number which may or may not be the same. But alas not easily seen.

Use this number for now as it is consistent with Model A production of your time period AND you don't have anything better to go with. Or even the frame number to confuse it with.

Joe K

[Tom Wesenberg]

4323008 is what I see There should be an A right in front of the digits, and a star on each end. It appears to be a replaced block as Joe mentioned and with the old engine number stamped into it.

Is the gas shut off under the hood, or inside the car under the tank?
I'm guessing with that high a number you have the indented firewall.

[Mike V. Florida]

[corndog]

Where do I find the frame number located? I am up for seeing if it matches the number on the block. If it does I will leave it apart for the police inspection. Otherwise....not!

[Rock Hornbuckle]

It is on the top rail of the frame located under the driver's side cowl. you'll need to lift the body to see it.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

It is on the top rail of the frame located under the driver's side cowl. you'll need to lift the body to see it.

Just changed my mind about finding the frame number!!! Thanks!

[JBill]

A bill of sale from the previous owner was sufficient for me to get titled in northern Indiana. The bill of sale showed what I paid for the car, engine number, year and model. The car had to be driveable. A state policeman had to examine the car in order to verify the number (didn't ask to see the frame number, thank goodness) and to check brake lights, headlights, etc.

It always depends on what clerk you get at the DMV. Some want to help, some want to hinder.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Here's an example of a good original engine number.

[Chris Haynes]

Doesn't look like a re stamp but more like a replacement block or engine that someone stamped. It appears to have the natural cast texture and not a smooth surface that had been ground off.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by corndog

Where do I find the frame number located? I am up for seeing if it matches the number on the block. If it does I will leave it apart for the police inspection. Otherwise....not!

This is from Jim Masons site;

ENGINE NUMBERS


���� The question of VIN numbers frequently comes up on the Model A. The concept of a vehicle identification number was started well after the production of the Model A ended, so there is no 'VIN' for a Model A. The original titles for the A's used the engine number for identification. The Model A engine number can be found on the boss on the driver's side of the engine just below the head. It was stamped on the engine after the break-in period. It takes the form of a star, followed by either an A or AA, then the number, and finally another star. The AA was originally used to specify a heavy duty clutch for use in the large trucks. Soon all engines had this clutch and the AA engine number was dropped. The engines were then crated and shipped to the assembly plants. As the engine was dropped into the frame the same engine number was stamped on the frame rail on the American cars. This was done only on the early Canadian cars. Both positions are shown in the photo above. (Thanks to Leon Davis for the photo)�� The number on the frame is not visible without lifting the body, and even then, it can be difficult to find. It may be lost in the rust completely. Often times the frame and engine numbers do not match, due to the swapping of engines in the car's history. There were differences in the font used for the numbers over the years. The standards should be consulted for the details.

Here is thre link for ther page above, http://jmodela.coffeecup.com/numbers.html