Rear end advise/suggestions needed!!!

[Banky]

Hi all,
Let me start by saying i've been sparing no expense on my Model A, but my pockets have more lint then cabbage lately.

Take a look at the pict below of my rear spring perches. The hole is oblonged, but the metal still runs the entire way across.

My question, could I put the regular sleeve in and fill the worn area with JB Weld? In theory, this should work.

Ok, let the a-hole ripping (or advise & suggestions) begin.

As always, thanks Ford Bard brethren for your help!

[J Franklin]

You notice what area is beat out. I think the JB Weld would be destroyed. Why not weld the area up with real metal and drill it out for the bushing which is steel by the way. If you want to just drive it just add the bushing with the split up. it will still support the spring shackles and maybe buy more time than you have. remember that ran for many years over washboard roads with scant lubrication to get that way.

[700rpm]

My advice: Do it right. Weld it and drill it, as J Franklin suggests. It will be worth it in the long run. Or, as my dad used to say, "A year from now you won't miss the money and you'll have the job done right."

[Tom Endy]

A shop here in Southern Califonia has a repair scheme. They insert a bronze rod the same diameter as a new bushing into the hole after the old bushing has been removed. They then weld the worn area and then pull the rod out. Apparently the weld does not stick to bronze.

Tom Endy

[Flop]

im just wondering how you could weld it up because you will only get metal into the shackle a quarter inch at best . drill it out completely and sleeve it with a new piece of steel ? but at the same time that looks damn thin on the bottom edge .

[tbirdtbird]

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Tom E is on the right track. A welder would actually cut out the thinned area completely, insert a bronze or porcelain or carbon rod of the appropriate size, and weld up all around it, grind it smooth with a die grinder or angle grinder, and have a rugged repair that would look original. I keep various sizes carbon rods in my shop for this purpose. Remember, if you weld up the whole thing, it is almost impossible to drill out 70,000 # welding rod or wire. (the weld metal is way too hard to drill). And by opening up the entire length, you avoid the issue that was brought up about only being able to get weld into the first 1/4 inch of each end

[Bob C]

I would go with Toms suggestion, I think you can also use carbon or copper rod.

Bob

[Flop]

also is this a cast piece? if so thats the next problem to weld with pre heating and post heating and cracking .

[Russ/40]

On my car, when this had to be faced, I asked the JB Weld question also and was discouraged from doing same. I ran into the difficulty as well of welding inside that hole very far. I ended up putting a steel rod in the same OD as the replacement bushing, then heating the thin side to cherry red, and hammering or forging the remaining material up snug with the rod, I then only had to lay a few beads on top of what was the thin area to bring the thickness back to spec.

Flop, the material is a forging.

[Mike V. Florida]

Russ, I like that!

[dumb person]

Brazing the worn spot works well. Alot of filing to make it round for the bushing but better than nothing.

[Craig Lewis]

That area is forged.

If you preheat the thin area with a torch, it is possible to fill just the valley with a mig welder by starting in the hot centre and welding out to the edge.....then go in the other end and fill it with weld from the centre out.
-Preheating enables a mig welder to do extraordinary things
Also...I can't see why a stick welder wouldn't work to fill the cavity if you had a steady hand...

Forget about drilling the hole round, you'll mess up the entire good side doing so and likely break a few bits. I used a die grinder and finished with a rattail file till the bushing could be driven in place.
I had to use a hand reamer in the bushing before the shackle would fit.

[western77]

I also did the same as Russ/40 and it worked great.

[Brentwood Bob]

my fix on several was to section a patch from 1 inch pipe(nongalvanized) and fit it to the damaged area aligning the patch. Then MIG welded in place. Bob

[1931 flamingo]

Get a couple of diff axle housings??
Paul in CT

[Kevin in NJ]

Get a copper, bronze will work but the tin comes to the surface, the correct diameter. Does not have to be perfect. You might need to grind it some to open up the hole so you can weld along the length. Truth is if it is thin enough you will easily burn through and fill up the void. I have used brass and bronze in the past to back welds and did not like it, copper is best!!

If you are using a MIG welder also get some TIG rods of the same metal type to help the fill rate. Run the arc on the tig rod for a better fill.

You do not need a perfect fill in, just enough to give support to the bushing you will put in place. Some voids and such are not a problem and you are likely to get them. The goal is to support the bushing properly. After you get the area nicely welded up drill to the proper diameter and make it look pretty. Press the bushing in place and you should be good to go.

I had a really bad axle housing and did a practice try after reading about this a few years ago. Pretty easy to do and a great way to save a housing.

[MikeK]

It is possible to use an epoxy fill, but NOT JB Weld. JB is 'filled' with talc and limestone dust, resulting in excellent thixo, tensile, and bond properties, but low compressive and cyclic load performance. There are high compressive epoxies available, many with 20,000+ psi compressive strength. They use quartz or metal fill. Here's one with quartz fill, Supreme 45HTQ: LINK You can make your own by making a thick paste from fine iron filings and clear (unfilled) 1 hour or slower epoxy from a siamese tube dispenser. It helps if, before application, you can vacuum the final mix under a bell jar with an AC vac pump.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Would it be feasable to replace that area with the spring eye cut from an old main leaf?? Bill W.

[TBone69]

I guess it depends on what might other problems with the rear exist. If it's in good operating condition sounds like the welding repairs are the way to go.

If it needs rebuilding either finding another axle tube may be the way to go.

I too am in the same boat though I am starting with a chassis.

The original rear is shot, axle keyways, spring perches and brakes toast. I picked up two other rears to make one. One had good brake assemblies and a hole in the axle tube the other rear was missing brakes and axles, tubes, and spring perch holes look good.

In anycase good luck with the project and I would like to see how you make out.

[Doug in NJ]

I did the carbon rod weld thing on one of my rear axles, and it worked great.
Here are a bunch of photos:

http://dougbraun.com/model_a_gallery3/suspension_work

Doug