What’s the future of (T’s) and (A’s)

[dlfrisch]

A Thread Posted by Jeff/Illinois 8/2514 -

I Posted a Reply, but it didn’t go through. After reading the responses to his Thread (a lot of interesting letters), I wanted to Post my own thoughts:

I taught electrical / electronics for 28 years in a beautiful trade school in New York State. Over the years our high school children have been studied and their learning habits have been researched and fine tuned to develop the most effective ways to teach. They have found, that students using their hands to build and / or assemble and along with good teaching by an instructor, is profitable for them individually and for their future. Using this schedule of teaching, after graduation, it puts trained knowledgeable people out to work or possibly continue their studies and it all befits everyone through out our U.S.A. I have been retired for a lot of years and in the last 10 to 15 years, I have learned, that my school and many other high schools across America have dropped or closed the electrical class plumbing/heating class, auto body shop, heavy equipment, shrunk down the carpenter shop, closed the auto mech. classes and now they have turned a good portion of the what’s left of the closed Trade classes into computer program studies or what ever keeps the students quiet and busy. In my opinion and I know many others, who I talk with feel that this is just a negative or real bad way to keep or develop new Trades people. How do we as a Nation keep up to date and be competitive with the rest of the world? Young folks - in general, don’t seem to have or are not encouraged to have the interest in the old or early inventions. The internal combustion engines or the history of the hit/miss engines or the study of early farm machinery or even how early manufacturing business’ developed mass production equipment. I do see a lot of interest in the younger kids of today, when I am out and around with my “A” or even with my Road King Harley - Davidson. A lot of folks, kids and grown-ups wave and if I’m stopped at the mall or store and if the time and place seem right, people inquire and ask interesting questions. Hopefully, the younger’s will keep and interest.
How do we elder’s encourage the younger folks to be more interested in hands on mechanical learning? I think our educational leaders should re-look at the teaching curriculums and emphasize more instructing of the early U.S. developmental history - Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, etc.
Dave

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by dlfrisch

How do we elder’s encourage the younger folks to be more interested in hands on mechanical learning? I think our educational leaders should re-look at the teaching curriculums and emphasize more instructing of the early U.S. developmental history - Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, etc.
Dave

A few things from your post from the younger generation:

I was fortunate enough to have gone to a highschool that had and still has auto mech, electronics, graphic arts (printing press machenery as well as computer printing), photography (film and developing your own pictures using a dark room), house wiring, small engines, metals (sheetmetal work, lathes mills, forge, foundry), welding, woodshop, and drafting. Granted i was the last class to do drafting by hand but there are NO businesses that dont use some form of AutoCad which is what they teach now.

As one who works with and in the skilled trades as my job i must admit - from listening to the "old guys" at work if you went to trade school you were sought after and were very well paid in comparison to other jobs AT THAT TIME. Nowadays its the same exact bust your butt in +105*F building with poor ventilation work that its ever been but pay hasn't increased much and your other job perks have gone way down and expected to do more per day. Why would someone want to work in those conditions making $14/hr when every other job (besides your ever increasing minimum wage jobs...) pays the same if not more in a clean air conditioned safer environment? Sure your always going to have people who cant stand an office job but their getting far and few between. Company pride in the workers is gone as companies see their employees as a cost/liability/hazard/as an expendable piece of machinery and the workers know it. Also alot of companies dissolved their apprenticeship programs or school/work programs. Costs too much and their more worried about the money in thier pockets.

Personally ive always had an interest in how stuff works - if it was broke in our house i was sure to take it apart and understand the gears and motor and how it all played a role in how the thing did what it did. Alot of my friends find things like that neat and can do most stuff but its mostly because their dad was a carpenter or machinist or just an all around handyman that learned from his dad.

Theres just less and less people that know anything about house repairs which in turn their kids see them throw money at the problem instead of trying to fix it. As the kid grows up that's considered normal to just pay someone to fix it or build it and so on.

I wont get started on the school systems and the way history is taught as that will open up a whole political box of worms for me. It should be noted in all my years of grade school and high school history classes we barely touched on the Vietnam war before school ended. Between 1972-~2000 I have no idea what went on in the world (besides snips and pieces of major stuff).

History is doomed to repeat itself and it will. As the ol saying goes "The fish rots from the head on down" will hold true. The next 50+ years is going to be very interesting!

My question for you guys in the 50+ club: When you were a kid did you ever imagine half the stuff we have now? Any of the current world problems?

[Rowdy]

Sluggo, I have afew years before I hit the 50+ club, but can tell you I have payed my dues sweating in 105 F conditions doing things that the people around me can't. I do not claim to be especially bright, but I take my time and work problems through in an orderly manner no matter how impatient the people above me get they know that I may be their best bet in getting it fixed and fixed right. As for $14.00 per hour, that is about what I was making in 2000. Now make closer to $25.00 per hour, but work alot less hours, so it likely averages out to what I made 5 years ago on a 40 hr work week. As for what I invisioned 25 years ago when I went to tech school, the electronics side has gotten much more complex, which is offset with the ease of computer interfaces to aid in troubleshooting. The days of cams and limit switches has given way to position sensors, but they are accomplishing the same things. I do not see the advantages of PLC's and such, but work on them because the machines are what they are.

As far as getting youth involved I am really out of ideas for that based on what is taught in schools and by society in general. Luckily I have 3 grandsons I can try to influence by example and hope to have the delivery done before they get too big and be started on the next one that they will be welcome to help with. Rod

[mshmodela]

The cars are worth money, heck even old rusty ones found sitting in fields for 50+ years or more... Their value may go down or might go up but the cars will ALWAYS have buyers... ALWAYS...

[Dbbc]

Aloha,
I am in my mid fifties and work on a computer all day. One boring sunday afternoon I decided to buy a model A. Had no knowledge of working on cars, as a matter of fact the last time I did, I had to go to the hospital emergency room. Anyway I can't tell you how satisfying it is to complete even a minor repair on the car, the process of figuring it out, doing the research and by the end of the day, with grease everywhere, turning up the ignition key and hear that engine purrr. (well that might be a stretch), fist pumping and a loud YES!. Does not get better than that.

But I agree wholeheartedly that completing manual work give you a sense of accomplishment and self confidence will definitely be a more valuable experience than being able to text 120 words a minute.

[Mike V. Florida]

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For those that might have missed the other thread,


What's the future of the Model T and Model A hobbies?

[Purdy Swoft]

The future for any older cars don't look that good. Insurance restrictions and registration problems seem to get worse and worse. How many times have we heard of model A owners being forced to remove the body to reveal the serial number ??? It seems that they especially like to pick on model A's. We have no lobby and I can't see how the clubs help. Alcohol adultrated fuel is a major problem and anybody that says that it isn't doesn't know what they are talking about. Alcohol added fuel is unstable and causes power loss. Besides causing power loss on an already underpowered vehicle, If left in the tank for
any length of time it causes REAL problems. Lots of reproduction parts are now available but prices continue to skyrocket. Model A parts use to be the lowest priced parts of any automobile. Model A's use to be a fun hobby for the common man. The rich guys have just about took over the hobby. Judging rules have gotten so tough that it has pretty much took the fun out of that part of the hobby for the regular guys. Its probably too late to fix for the most part.

[bart78]

I think Model A's will allways have a spot. With restorers or Hot Rodders. You can tell by looking at EBay and a few other places. The T is in a loosing position. I have a really good 26 touring car that has has the motor rebuilt and a lot of other work. But it still needs interior and paint and tires. And a few other things. I am still pretty young. But the more I think about the car. I don't think I want to put the money into it to finish it. I will probably end up selling it to someone who really likes T's.

[bart78]

[msmaron]

Bart fantastic looking project...WOW

[Purdy Swoft]

I agree. Looks like its almost ready for some black paint !!!

[bart78]

It is nice. But the differences between it and a model A are what I don't like. I like the more modern model A. And I think that is what will be the T's downfall when it comes to younger people. I like the car just not the mechanics of it.

[bart78]

Model T guys would hate this. But I have even thought about using a Model A frame and all the running gear.

[Purdy Swoft]

That would make it more practical. Van Speed did a nice job on a model T roadster-run about with model A running gear a while back. There was a thread here on the forum. It was a fenderless GO JOB but very cool. It could also be done with fenders and look original.

[bart78]

That is one thing I am considering. But I have allso found quite a few model A's here lately. I mean a bunch of A's. They are projects some might be far from projects to some. I am going to have the chance to buy a bunch of this. With tons of parts. I am 35 and hope to be given the chance to work on A's for a long time. I had my seven year old son with me earlier taking a motor apart. And showing him what everything does. He all ready says he wants a 30 pickup that I in the stuff I am hoping to buy. I think the guys my age are going to be the ones that really have to try and keep these old cars alive. The younger guys don't have the money yet to do it. And some of the older guys like my grandfather can't do it anymore.

[Rowdy]

Nothing wrong with that. I stay away from T's as much as possible. Dad bought a 17 touring, so will likely have to help with that. Flatheads are a lot more fun and practical, but I like hp. Rod

[dumb person]

Originally Posted by bart78

It is nice. But the differences between it and a model A are what I don't like. I like the more modern model A. And I think that is what will be the T's downfall when it comes to younger people. I like the car just not the mechanics of it.

i like the mechanicals of the car, the fact it is slow does not bother me much.

[Exctyengr]

Outstanding comment! What has happened in education over the past 30 years or so, is a strong emphasis on preparing everyone for college, an increase in federal involvement, a push back on taxes that fund education and, frankly, a millennial generation that does not seem to care/is too busy to get involved, etc. So now we have a generation or two that is not exposed to working with their hands at all, have not learned to love to tinker with "stuff" and instead spends their day in front of a screen. (I was in a restaurant the other day, and it seems that this generation is unable to ingest food without an iPhone, iPad, lap top, you name it in front of them).
What to do? I have gotten involved more with education over the past year, and have asked the questions about shop, home ec/, etc. The answer that I have gotten is the all out focus on high stake testing precludes anything else.
A shame, but we all need to plug away

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by bart78

It is nice. But the differences between it and a model A are what I don't like. I like the more modern model A. And I think that is what will be the T's downfall when it comes to younger people. . I like the car just not the mechanics of it.

Naturally your opinion is valid however ironically for those of us who are deeply involved in the Model-T hobby too, we are finding just the opposite. The Model-T hobby definitely has more young people/families involved than the A hobby does. I attribute that to there are more 'touring events' available for the T hobbyists which are affordable for a young family, --and the entry level price for a reliable T is lower than an A, as are the overall costs to repair a T are less too. With that said, there are some Ts (generally 09-16) that will sell for more money than an A. The one other thing I have noticed about Ts is they attract a large number of people who are Engineers as a profession. I think that is because they are intrigued by the simplicity of a T.

As stated many time by those who have been in this hobby for awhile, history has proven the future still looks very good for these cars.

[Tony Martino]

Hey guys, I don't usually talk a lot here but friend of mine got me thinking of this whole car thing and he said sometning very pithy recently.
Funny it wound up in the farewell issue of Rod & custom magazine.
I'm too old to figure out how to find and paste it from the internet so here it is.

Car Guys
I just finished the Aug '14
editorial, and it got me thinking
about being a car guy versus being
a guy with cars. Being a car guy
is not a hobby, it is a lifestyle! As
a car guy all I want to do is work
on my car, build cars, go to swap
meets or races, and drive my car.
All my friends are car guys.
We talk cars, help eachother
with projects, and share ideas.
A guy with cars is just as happy
to spend (waste) time playing golf,
watching football, fishing, not
working on or driving his car.
As far as finding time to work on
My projects, I do whatever I can
whenever I can, even if it's just
cleaning parts.

Robert J. Palmer
Grand Gorge, New York


By the way this was written by a young kid about 23 years old.
I know it's a little off brand but so what, he drives a 53 Chevy Hot rod, 50's style
that he worked on and learned about as he went. He has total respect for us old gray beards, and what we contribute.
So from my 50 plus years being a "CAR GUY" I think there is still hope.