Out for a short cruise . . .

[29Cabriolet]

. . . then --- clunk--- clunk --clunk-----screech. Both rear wheels locked up. With the engine still running and nothing broken visible underneath, I was thinking transmission or rear end. Don't know if this is significant, but as it sits now, motor not running, shifting through the gears "feels normal".

In any case, being a novice, I would appreciate any advice first on how to start disassembly to diagnose and pinpoint what is broken. And any hints on how to attack the repair would surely be helpful.
Thanks in advance!

[California Travieso]

Did you check the rear brakes?

David Serrano

[J Franklin]

Put the rear wheels up on jack stands and then remove the spark plugs. Next take the hand crank and if possible turn engine while someone watches and listens for problems. go through the gears while checking and see if you turn up any clues. Good luck and report back with the findings.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

Put the rear wheels up on jack stands and then remove the spark plugs. Next take the hand crank and if possible turn engine while someone watches and listens for problems. go through the gears while checking and see if you turn up any clues. Good luck and report back with the findings.

agreed, but

wont even have to turn the crank: jack up the rearend safely, put trans in gear and should be able to rotate the rear wheels - one will spin opposite of the other. If it does that means the spider gears and axle shafts are OK.

Then pop it in neutral, have a buddy hold one wheel while you turn the other - driveshaft should turn. if it doesnt its something in the rearend or U joint. If your questioning the trans, drain the fluid thru a cloth and see what particles are in there and pop the top off and check the gears. Should drain the rearend as well and see what chunks you get.

Im guessing once you came to a halt with the engine running you tried to drive again? What did it do as you let the clutch out? just bog and die?

[Dick Carne]

I agree that a good initial step would be to remove the plugs, jack up the rear axle, and try to determine at what point in the driveline the motion seems to stop. Several years back, I incurred a similar experience with our roadster - turns out that it was one of the pinion gear nuts had backed off allowing the pinion bearings to be subjected to abnormal back and forth, eventually coming loose and getting caught in the ring gear. I hope that this is not the case, but it sounds very similar. Please let us know what you find.

[29Cabriolet]

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Originally Posted by SeaSlugs

. . . Im guessing once you came to a halt with the engine running you tried to drive again? What did it do as you let the clutch out? just bog and die?

Almost. Didn't really expect the car was driveable. But I did put it in gear and let the clutch out to confirm what I suspected at that point . . . that the rear wheels were locked.

Thanks to all for your suggestions!

[chl]

Had a similar experience, wheels locked up applying the brakes turning a corner. was able to back up and release the lock up, happened again a few days later. had the brakes rebuilt and everything is fine.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by 29Cabriolet

Almost. Didn't really expect the car was driveable. But I did put it in gear and let the clutch out to confirm what I suspected at that point . . . that the rear wheels were locked.

Thanks to all for your suggestions!

Yea i suppose the brake could have locked up at the same time if you just hit them hard. Would be obvious once its on jackstands and neither wheel will budge.

[29Cabriolet]

Originally Posted by chl

Had a similar experience, wheels locked up applying the brakes turning a corner. was able to back up and release the lock up, happened again a few days later. had the brakes rebuilt and everything is fine.

I haven't considered brakes yet since they were completely rebuilt less than 2 seasons ago. Of course something could still break, or perhaps something less than perfect on the installation.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by chl

Had a similar experience, wheels locked up applying the brakes turning a corner. was able to back up and release the lock up, happened again a few days later. had the brakes rebuilt and everything is fine.

My 29 Tudor did that when I bought it. I found the left side had no parking brake, and the right side had the parking brake attached to the band with only one rivet. I fixed the brakes and all was fine.

In this case the clunking noise makes me think it's a problem in the tranny or rear end.
Does the tranny shift normally through all gears?
If not, then remove the shift cover and see what's going on.

BTW, if you hold the clutch down and start the engine, is that OK?

I just read the first post again, and I'm guessing rear end problems.

[29Cabriolet]

Yeah puttin my money on the rear end (Literally!!) I won't be able to work on it until the weekend. But will report what I find as soon as I do!

[Benson]

Did someone try to stop the car using the "Parking brake"?

The later backing plates were re-enforced to help prevent the parking brake band from shearing off the stop and jamming the brake band when someone tried to use the parking brake to stop the car.

I am not sure that Ford ever recommended the use of this brake to stop the car at speed even after the "upgrade".

[René W]

A friens model A had the same,it would not go forward but it will go backwarts.
The backing plate of the rear brake had come loose and driving forwards locked the brake....he drove home backwarts.

[29Cabriolet]

Originally Posted by Benson

Did someone try to stop the car using the "Parking brake"?

Nope

[Ray in La Mesa]

Had the same thing happen, turned out the rear end oil had leaked out and the pinion roller bearings went square.

[29Cabriolet]

Originally Posted by Ray in La Mesa

Had the same thing happen, turned out the rear end oil had leaked out and the pinion roller bearings went square.

I drained the lube from the rear end - there was plenty. Although there is a small leak, I keep the level where it should be. And maybe the good news is when I drained it, there were no broken pieces or grindings that I could see. Hopefully that's an indication that the problem is elsewhere.

[SeaSlugs]

Could be - no news is good news :P get it up on jackstands and see what you got!

[Tom Wesenberg]

I would jack up one rear wheel, shift the tranny to neutral, then spin the tire to see if it feels good.

[katy]

U-joint?

[jg61hawk]

Does it back up? Be sure the rear axle nuts are properly torqued tight. If not the parking brake can get out of where it belongs as the drums moves laterally. I didn't torque mine (years ago) and the car stopped going forward, but could back up. Luckily it was very slow speed in driveway.

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Hi Stan, make sure you have all the teeth on the rear end ring gear, I had one break off of mine, make one loud clunk and clunked every revolution going home. I would get it up on jackstands and go from there, starting by loosening the rear adjusters and pulling the drums, let us know how you make out.
Regards,
Barry

[29Cabriolet]

Update:
Well, I finally gathered up all the tools and extra hands required to begin the repair project. After inspecting the trans by removing the shifter tower, and then inspecting the differential with a scope, the suspicion was moved to the U joint. We removed the rear axle and differential with the spring still attached because the differential has a leak and we thought this would be a good opportunity to replace gaskets. And sure enough the U-joint was in pieces! (I know we love photos here so as not to disappoint, check it out!) In addition to replacing that and hopefully the differential gaskets, the trans had been a little noisy due to normal wear of gears, mostly the main cluster. I don't feel good about putting it back that way when it's all apart. So a rebuild of that is on the list as well.

Any hints, advice, or dos and don'ts about any of the above will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

Stan

[JDupuis]

Glad you found it Stan. The u-joint is an easy fix compared to a major diff rebuild. Lucky"?" You. Jeff

[RawhideKid]

I am thinking there should be a LOT more grease in and around that Ujoint.

There is a reason that area is double gasketed and the grease fitting lines up with hole in the dome piece. Be sure that when you reinstall it, you start with it packed with grease and after installed, take the grease gun and finish packing it with grease.

[29Cabriolet]

Originally Posted by RawhideKid

I am thinking there should be a LOT more grease in and around that Ujoint.

There is a reason that area is double gasketed and the grease fitting lines up with hole in the dome piece. Be sure that when you reinstall it, you start with it packed with grease and after installed, take the grease gun and finish packing it with grease.

Not sure about the quantity of grease - some was removed before the picture was taken. For the record it was installed over 30 years ago. I have ordered a "complete assembly ready to install. . ." I am assuming that would mean it's packed, but after install, I can hit it with the gun.
Thanks!

[RawhideKid]

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"Not sure about the quantity of grease - some was removed before the picture was taken. For the record it was installed over 30 years ago. I have ordered a "complete assembly ready to install. . ." I am assuming that would mean it's packed, but after install, I can hit it with the gun.
Thanks!"

Yea, just because they say it comes pre-packed with grease doesn't mean it's going to last another 30 years without adding the grease to keep it properly lubed. Think about it, there are 89 year old U-joints still running around because there have been proper maintenance done, which means continual packing with grease.

I believe the owners manual says to remove the speedo turtle and grease until it squirts out of that hole.That can be a LOT more than a simple tube of grease.

[Bob C]

Check the shape of the new u-joint, some of them are not rounded enough
and will hit the inner u-joint cap.

Bob

[Tom Wesenberg]

Grease, we don't need no stinkin' grease.

Well, maybe a little Mystik JT-6 would help.

[SeaSlugs]

Yup grease grease and more grease. Altho mine spurted out like some terrible playdoh machine i KNOW its got plenty of grease. Glad your fixing everything else while the opportunity has risen.

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Don't spare the grease Stan. I put about a full cartridge in mine. No wonder you heard a big bang!
Barry

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by Barry B./ Ma.

Don't spare the grease Stan. I put about a full cartridge in mine. No wonder you heard a big bang!
Barry

yea I went thru about a 1lb can of grease for each U joint (AA - lucky me haha) I also coated the outside of the bell before assemblying the clam halves - sure the grease zerk lines up but I'm suspecting grease can/has to completely coat the outside of the bell or most of it before it forces grease thru the 2 tiny holes in the bell to fill the rather massive U joint cavity. Id rather have some spurt out upon assembly than too little grease.

[29Cabriolet]

A club member suggested that some will mix 600W with the grease. The theory being that with the circular motion centrifugal force eventually sends the grease outward leaving much of the joint with less than needed. With the 600 added it is more fluid and keeps the joint better lubed. So I thought I'd poll the Barn. Any comments on this method?

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by 29Cabriolet

A club member suggested that some will mix 600W with the grease. The theory being that with the circular motion centrifugal force eventually sends the grease outward leaving much of the joint with less than needed. With the 600 added it is more fluid and keeps the joint better lubed. So I thought I'd poll the Barn. Any comments on this method?

if you jam it full of enough grease theres nowhere for the gease to "fling out" think of enough cookie dough (grease) in a mixing bowl (clamshell+bowl) going thru the beaters (u joint) - not all the cookie dough sticks to the outside...

[denniskliesen]

I'm thinking about a full tube of corn head grease when I go back together with mine. I had very little grease in my old u-joint and the cavity when I took it apart recently. Surprised to find the old riveted u-joint still in good shape, no play in any of the joints. Maybe the transmission leak was just enough to keep it lubed.