The Ford Barn

rfitzpatrick · 12-25-2021, 11:35 AM

I've had my PicUp for 3 years, and have no prior knowledge/history. Several months ago, developed an oil leak right there at the rear oil pan, wasn't coming from the carter-keyed hole. The oil pan was pulled, a few days ago. Amazing amount of sludge was there -- however, the oil tube is missing off the rear main bearing. It wasn't in the oil pan either.
What issues might I expect? Since it Christmas, work has paused. Is this my oil leak cause?

Ths

Patrick L. · 12-25-2021, 01:25 PM

I guess its time to pull the main caps [ center and rear] and give them a look and measurement for clearance. Adjust the clearance, clean pan and screen and fix the tube. Then see where you're at.

nkaminar · 12-26-2021, 11:21 AM

There has been a lot of discussion about the tube. Most will agree it is needed to keep the rear main from leaking.

If the engine was not leaking for most of the 3 years then there is a good chance that the main bearings are OK. Did you hear a deep knock when accelerating or when the engine was under load, like going up a grade? That is a good indication that the mains need adjusting.

The best way to measure the clearance is to use Plastigauge. Remove one bearing at a time. You can remove one shim on one side of the bearing at a time, alternating sides. Look for scoring on the journals, in which case you may want to consider an overhaul. Consult the "red book," Model A Mechanics Manual, Vol. 1.

rfitzpatrick · 12-26-2021, 11:57 AM

I've got another problem now -- all work is paused. Three months ago my compression was 60+- 3psi. Two months same engine 43psi four times. Today it's 28/28/30/30
And on this day -- mechanic got sick too. We live in South Florida, I 'think" he's only second shot

nkaminar · 12-26-2021, 01:21 PM

Sorry to hear about your mechanic getting sick. With two shots he should recover quickly. Better still is the booster.

Not sure you can give a booster to your engine to recover the compression. If it was me, I would pull the engine and take it apart to inspect all the parts. With the sludge that you reported it sounds like it has not been treated very well over it's life. The low compression can come from needing a valve job or needing new rings. In any case it would be prudent to do a detailed inspection and any repair that may be needed. I do this kind of stuff myself but if you have not been bathing in grease your entire life, like me, you may want to get your mechanic to do the work. The engine may not need a complete overhaul and could last for many years after some minor work.

rfitzpatrick · 12-26-2021, 04:48 PM

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nkaminar
I'd change/service the PicUp every 500 miles, and did an oil analysis. Analysis never gave me a clue. That's about 6 oil changes a year, always using the 'real' gasoline too. Now club mechanic went home sick -- this guy dearly loves the Model A's.

nkaminar · 12-26-2021, 09:08 PM

OK, It was treated well under your stewardship, but where did the sludge come from? I would still take it apart and inspect things. There is some reason why you are loosing compression. What oil were you using?

You are lucky to have a good mechanic available. So many Model A owners are left out in the cold.

rfitzpatrick · 12-27-2021, 11:36 AM

"You are lucky to have a good mechanic available. So many Model A owners are left out in the cold." Absolutely! I'd have to sell mine and he closed shop

What we know: I caused my problems. Used Mobil 1 oil. This year began using non-ethanol gas, not realizing it's 95 octane. Over greasing, especialy, the frond end --brake shoes were ruined. The oil leak has been fixed, there's still a drop or two tho.

What we think we know: Since lost compression all cylinders, equally, burn valves caused by to high octane. He has a procedure to determine this be rings or valves

Turns out mechanic wasn't sick -- he got a deal on this '30 coupe, all numbers matching. (at least I think so -- 7K) He was car-buying

Tks

nkaminar · 12-27-2021, 03:10 PM

Mobil 1 is good oil and should not cause any problems. I trust you used a multigrade like 20W-40. The high octane should not cause the valves to burn. Usually they burn because of a lean mixture or because of a retarded ignition setting. Putting a little oil in the cylinders and then doing the compression check should tell whether it is rings or valves.

SAJ · 12-27-2021, 03:57 PM

A leak down test will determine whether it is valves or rings. Listen for the leak down air leaking from carby or exhaust or oil filler tube.
I use Mobil1 15W 40 in all my old cars. Plus I run both my Model As on 95 or 98 octane. The slower burn seems to suit these high torque engines when climbing hills. Subjective opinion from listening and feel only. No proof. And I never labour up hills but change down into second overdrive at just above 30 mph.
On club runs I see others holding top gear on long hills at less than 20 mph. One guy says he advances ignition for a little more power on hills! That makes me cringe.
I did run my plugs almost white a few years ago and felt power decreasing over time ( 10,000 miles or so), so I pulled the head to find just the start of burnt valves. A regrind restored the power and I run the GAVs about 1/3 turn open now for a light to mid tan plug colour
SAJ in NZ

12-25-2021, 11:35 AM	#1
rfitzpatrick Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 551	Read Main Bearing I've had my PicUp for 3 years, and have no prior knowledge/history. Several months ago, developed an oil leak right there at the rear oil pan, wasn't coming from the carter-keyed hole. The oil pan was pulled, a few days ago. Amazing amount of sludge was there -- however, the oil tube is missing off the rear main bearing. It wasn't in the oil pan either. What issues might I expect? Since it Christmas, work has paused. Is this my oil leak cause? Ths Last edited by rfitzpatrick; 12-25-2021 at 11:36 AM. Reason: Rear Main Bearing

12-25-2021, 01:25 PM	#2
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Read Main Bearing I guess its time to pull the main caps [ center and rear] and give them a look and measurement for clearance. Adjust the clearance, clean pan and screen and fix the tube. Then see where you're at.

12-26-2021, 11:21 AM	#3
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,898	Re: Read Main Bearing There has been a lot of discussion about the tube. Most will agree it is needed to keep the rear main from leaking. If the engine was not leaking for most of the 3 years then there is a good chance that the main bearings are OK. Did you hear a deep knock when accelerating or when the engine was under load, like going up a grade? That is a good indication that the mains need adjusting. The best way to measure the clearance is to use Plastigauge. Remove one bearing at a time. You can remove one shim on one side of the bearing at a time, alternating sides. Look for scoring on the journals, in which case you may want to consider an overhaul. Consult the "red book," Model A Mechanics Manual, Vol. 1. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

12-26-2021, 11:57 AM	#4
rfitzpatrick Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 551	Re: Read Main Bearing I've got another problem now -- all work is paused. Three months ago my compression was 60+- 3psi. Two months same engine 43psi four times. Today it's 28/28/30/30 And on this day -- mechanic got sick too. We live in South Florida, I 'think" he's only second shot

12-26-2021, 01:21 PM	#5
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,898	Re: Read Main Bearing Sorry to hear about your mechanic getting sick. With two shots he should recover quickly. Better still is the booster. Not sure you can give a booster to your engine to recover the compression. If it was me, I would pull the engine and take it apart to inspect all the parts. With the sludge that you reported it sounds like it has not been treated very well over it's life. The low compression can come from needing a valve job or needing new rings. In any case it would be prudent to do a detailed inspection and any repair that may be needed. I do this kind of stuff myself but if you have not been bathing in grease your entire life, like me, you may want to get your mechanic to do the work. The engine may not need a complete overhaul and could last for many years after some minor work. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

12-26-2021, 04:48 PM	#6
rfitzpatrick Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 551	Re: Read Main Bearing Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) nkaminar I'd change/service the PicUp every 500 miles, and did an oil analysis. Analysis never gave me a clue. That's about 6 oil changes a year, always using the 'real' gasoline too. Now club mechanic went home sick -- this guy dearly loves the Model A's.

12-26-2021, 09:08 PM	#7
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,898	Re: Read Main Bearing OK, It was treated well under your stewardship, but where did the sludge come from? I would still take it apart and inspect things. There is some reason why you are loosing compression. What oil were you using? You are lucky to have a good mechanic available. So many Model A owners are left out in the cold. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

12-27-2021, 11:36 AM	#8
rfitzpatrick Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 551	Re: Read Main Bearing "You are lucky to have a good mechanic available. So many Model A owners are left out in the cold." Absolutely! I'd have to sell mine and he closed shop What we know: I caused my problems. Used Mobil 1 oil. This year began using non-ethanol gas, not realizing it's 95 octane. Over greasing, especialy, the frond end --brake shoes were ruined. The oil leak has been fixed, there's still a drop or two tho. What we think we know: Since lost compression all cylinders, equally, burn valves caused by to high octane. He has a procedure to determine this be rings or valves Turns out mechanic wasn't sick -- he got a deal on this '30 coupe, all numbers matching. (at least I think so -- 7K) He was car-buying Tks

12-27-2021, 03:10 PM	#9
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,898	Re: Read Main Bearing Mobil 1 is good oil and should not cause any problems. I trust you used a multigrade like 20W-40. The high octane should not cause the valves to burn. Usually they burn because of a lean mixture or because of a retarded ignition setting. Putting a little oil in the cylinders and then doing the compression check should tell whether it is rings or valves. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

12-27-2021, 03:57 PM	#10
SAJ Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 514	Re: Read Main Bearing A leak down test will determine whether it is valves or rings. Listen for the leak down air leaking from carby or exhaust or oil filler tube. I use Mobil1 15W 40 in all my old cars. Plus I run both my Model As on 95 or 98 octane. The slower burn seems to suit these high torque engines when climbing hills. Subjective opinion from listening and feel only. No proof. And I never labour up hills but change down into second overdrive at just above 30 mph. On club runs I see others holding top gear on long hills at less than 20 mph. One guy says he advances ignition for a little more power on hills! That makes me cringe. I did run my plugs almost white a few years ago and felt power decreasing over time ( 10,000 miles or so), so I pulled the head to find just the start of burnt valves. A regrind restored the power and I run the GAVs about 1/3 turn open now for a light to mid tan plug colour SAJ in NZ