oil pan gasket replacement

[JoeMarine]

I plan to drop my oil pan (1930 Model A), clean out the sludge and put everything back together again. I have no idea when the last time this was done. I've owned the car for about 10 years. The original motor has 80,000 miles. . .any hints on this venture

[Joe K]

Permatex-80065-Gasket-Sealant-Aerosol

Spray one side of the gasket and the mating surface of pan. Dry to tack. Put together and climb under the car with it. Locate two bolts.

One can "pull" the tacked in place gasket a bit to align bolt holes even in place. The adhesive has a little 'give.'

Sort of a "contact cement" with a pedigree.

Joe K

[Joe31]

I am doing that right now. Maybe a pro will give us some tips. Joe

[JoeMarine]

I'll let you know if I hear from anyone

[JoeMarine]

Thanks

[chap52]

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Here is a good article, if I got it attached OK...Chap

Leakless Pan Gasket.pdf

[Terry, NJ]

Dropping the oil pan is one job I hate, with a passion! Why does the engine have sludge after ten years? You're using non detergent oil, Why? Try draining out a quart or two of the old oil and replacing it with ATF a day or two before before your oil change. Run it and get it hot and drain it out. A lot of sludge will go out with it. Replace with detergent oil.
If you can't resist the temptation to pull the pan, don't forget the oil screen on the oil pump! These things clog up with sludge and deprive the full amount of oil to the pump, hence the bearings. I've been thinking of making 4 studs, one for each corner of the pan to hang the gasket on. I don't know if these would help or not, but if the gasket is a problem this is one possible solution. Good Luck with it!
Terry

[Jeff P. / MN]

I have used Terry’s method (studs on the pan) and it has really helped me. Great idea! This was passed along to me by a real veteran of Model A’s, he worked on these cars for his living. Wish he was still here to advise me.

[JoeMarine]

Thanks Chap

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by JoeMarine

I plan to drop my oil pan (1930 Model A), clean out the sludge and put everything back together again. I have no idea when the last time this was done. I've owned the car for about 10 years. The original motor has 80,000 miles. . .any hints on this venture

Recommend cleaning out the Valve Chamber. Do not forget to clean out the Oil Pump screen too with the Pan dropped.


You can purchase plastic guide pins instead of using the metal ones in the article. The plastic ones additionally guide/hold the pan while you are putting the bolts in, and are easily removed for putting in the last bolts. Make sure to add some non-permanent thread sealant to the bolts to prevent leaks at the bolts , there a few bolt holes that are not blind and are open to oil. I prefer to use an anaerobic non-hardening sealant on the gasket surfaces, using my finger to minimally skim coat the gasket, to prevent the sealant from squishing into the inside of the pan, possibly breaking off and circulating in the oil. Another reason for using this type of sealant is that it remains a little flexible, makes it easier next time to remove the pan and cleaning off the sealant/old gasket. Do not over tighten the Pan bolts if using a cork gasket, can deform the gasket and also warp the pan.


When installing the Rope seal in the Pan, do not cut it flush on its ends flush with the pan. Leave some sticking up. The purpose is that when the pan is installed this will cause the rope seal to be pressed into its groove providing for proper sealing.


And definitely remember to use the Oil pump bolt to hold the oil pump in the block, otherwise it drops into the pan when you remove it. If you forget it may startle you. Do not substitute a plain bolt, a plain bolt can strip the block hole, and may crack the block, use the special pipe thread tool. Do not overtighen the bolt/screw against the distributor, can damage the distributor when over tightened. You also use this bolt to hold the distributor up when installing the pan.


A lot of this may be in the article above, but these are some highlights from difficulties I encountered trying how to do this correctly the 1st time.


Here is a link to oil pan installation guides, many of the venders sell these.
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...earchByKeyword

[Purdy Swoft]

I install a few temporary studs in the block to help align the gasket and pan for installation . I seal the gasket to the block with no sealer on the oil pan side of the gasket . I make Real sure that the tabs at the rear of the pan gasket fits up to the rear main bearing cap properly and install the oil pan . When done in this manner , the next time that the oil pan needs to be removed , the gasket should remain attached to the engine block and not need to be replaced . If the tabs at the rear of the oil pan gaskets are cut off in a short cut attempt to first install the gaskets to the oil pan instead of the engine block , leaks will usually occur at each side of the rear main bearing cap . Just a thought .

[JoeMarine]

Thank you

[katy]

I prefer not to use any gasket sealer unless absolutely necessary. I tie the gasket to the oil pan w/light thread in 3 or 4 places and I use 2 or 3 studs for alignment as others suggested. I usually leave the thread in place but it can be cut and removed after a few bolts are in.

[Y-Blockhead]

I use Oil Pan Installation Guides to hold the gasket and pan up while getting everything situated. Just screw them into the pan rail and 'clip' on the gasket and pan.

[jhowes]

What about the rope seal in the front of the engine? If it didn't leak before taking the pan off, should it be replaced? Jack

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by jhowes

What about the rope seal in the front of the engine? If it didn't leak before taking the pan off, should it be replaced? Jack

I replace it, I do not know if they are reusable. Hopefully someone else can answer that question.


Clean the shaft, grease the shaft surface slightly. When the rope seal is in place I like to also put a small amount of grease on it to prevent it from burning from the shaft rotating against it. Before they came out with the current rope seals, used to soak the rope in oil for a day before installing. I do not know what they are using for the rope seal today, but it does not absorb much if any oil.

[Purdy Swoft]

I would also replace the front rope seal . I don't cut the ones that I use . Iit is a tight fit that doesn't leak . The tight fit is what makes me prefer to use temporary metal studs . I make the studs longer than the original oil pan bolts . The thickness of the rope seal makes it difficult to reach the threads with original length bolts . I slightly draw the pan up with nuts on the temporary metal studs . Don't try drawing it up too much in any one place or you risk wringing off something . I wouldn't try torqueing the oil pan bolts to twenty foot pounds like one book recommends . I think that some of the rope seals now offered are Teflon coated and it is no longer recommended to soak them like we use to .

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

I would also replace the front rope seal . I don't cut the ones that I use . Iit is a tight fit that doesn't leak . The tight fit is what makes me prefer to use temporary metal studs . I make the studs longer than the original oil pan bolts . The thickness of the rope seal makes it difficult to reach the threads with original length bolts . I slightly draw the pan up with nuts on the temporary metal studs . Don't try drawing it up too much in any one place or you risk wringing off something . I wouldn't try torqueing the oil pan bolts to twenty foot pounds like one book recommends . I think that some of the rope seals now offered are Teflon coated and it is no longer recommended to soak them like we use to .

I also saw that, wonder if they were using a paper gasket, 20 Lbs is way too much for a cork seal, distends the gasket and might warp the pan .

[Railcarmover]

Ten years,80k miles and the pan is sludged up? do it right,pull the engine,clean it,set oil clearances rod and main bearings, lap valves and re ring it..If you caught it early enough you can get off cheap,a few shims,a set of rings and gaskets,some lapping compound.Back in the old days that was called an 'overhaul'..and it gave an engine a fresh life.

Right now your planning on laying under the car pulling the pan,cleaning it and having a leak when your done,and having the same old tired engine you started with.Take a little more time.do it right.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

I also saw that, wonder if they were using a paper gasket, 20 Lbs is way too much for a cork seal, distends the gasket and might warp the pan .

I agree, too tight oil pan bolts can squeeze a cork gasket out the sides . I don't like cork gaskets because they are too fragile . I use the thick paper gasket and tighten by feel .

[Purdy Swoft]

I usually pull the engine if the oil pan has to be removed . I avoid working under the car as much as I can . I feel that a better job can be done with the engine removed , so that I can work comfortably ..

[Purdy Swoft]

When I pull the engine , I remove the oil pan before turning the engine over . The oil that remains in the dipper tray can't be drained and will make a mess inside the engine if it is turned over before removing the oil pan !!!

[Railcarmover]

fitting and gluing the cork on the rear main,upside down with oil dripping in your face..nah,there is a better way..pleasure comes from working clean,comfortable and relaxed.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Not having the equipment to do that, I put a piece of plastic underneath , and let it drip/drain overnight.

[DHZIEMAN]

On an engine being overhauled that I was helping break down years back, when pulling the oil pan, in some holes, holding the gasket to the pan were (it looked like) string holding the gasket to the pan. It was imbedded in the gasket! Just what someone did, with what they had.

[1930artdeco]

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Was having a fit with trying to keep the ream main gasket in place until I realized that the inspection plate helps hold it in place. After that I was able to get the pan up and then realized that the spring on the bottom of the oil pump was a tad long. I had to use a jack to hold it up and then compress it. That pump aint goin nowhere! But the pan is up and secure. Next up-see if there are any leaks-I sure as %#$% hope not.


Mike

[Purdy Swoft]

If I had to use a jack to hold the inspection plate in place I would be concerned that the spring on the pump may have been compressed to the point that the spring was closed or nearly closed . The spring serves a purpose . If the spring didn't serve a purpose Henry wouldn't have used a spring . I've never had this problem . If the spring was too long , I would have sent it back and replaced it with the correct spring . Just a thought .

[Railcarmover]

If you didn't put any sealant where the cork rear main seal meets the pan gasket you will leak. The oil pump spring has some tension applied,it provides a check valve for the pump to pass debris or the cam to endplay.

[Purdy Swoft]

There are two different width rear oil pan seals used on the model A engines . The 28-29 seal was 13/32 wide , part number 9790 , the 30-31 seal was 3/8 wide part number 9800 .. Some model A parts catalogs only list one width . Brattons catalog lists the rear oil pan seals on page 48 of the 2017 catalog that I' looking at . It sounds like you've got the narrow seal that is too narrow to hold its self in place . I've never seen the need to glue the seal to the rear main bearing cap . If the correct seal is used the seal will fit into the groove of the rear main bearing cap plenty tight enough to hold it in place while the oil pan is being installed . The inspection plate and rear of the oil pan will push the cork seal very tightly into the grove on the rear main cap as the oil pan is tightened . All of the rear oil pan seals are too long and must be trimmed and fitted . The ends of the seal fits on top of the oil pan gasket , where the gasket fits into the groove on the rear main bearing cap . I seal the ends of the seal where it rests on top of the rear oil pan gasket tabs . If these tabs are cut off in a short cut attempt to install the gasket to the oil pan instead of the block CAN result in an oil leak that resemble a rear main bearing leak

. Just to add a thought , There is always a chance that the rear main bearing cap may have been replaced at some point in time . If the main bearing cap that came on the engine has been replaced it could easily have a 28-29 cap on a 30-31 engine and the groove size on the main bearing cap won't be correct for the model . When I get ready to perform such a procedure , I will have both seals on hand just incase . The rear pan seals are inexpensive .

[1930artdeco]

I think what I did when I put the oil pump back together was 'unscrew' the spring with the strip of metal that hold it to the pump. I didn't realize that there is a specified length to it. So if there is a length to it what is it? It is the original spring and it has plenty of spring left to it.


As for the cork gasket I sized it to the cap but it was very inflexible and just would not stay in the cap. The other piece of cork was to wide for the cap.


Thanks,


Mike

[Purdy Swoft]

Mike , I'm not sure what the specified length is . Exact length may not be that important .

[Roger V]

Cleaning the valve chamber was mentioned. It's difficult at best to do completely. Either let it alone if it's not real bad or make sure no sludge chunks remain that could plug the oil feed holes to the main bearings.