Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-06-2022, 03:31 PM   #1
The Austrian
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Austria
Posts: 19
Default Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

Hello,

since the kingpin bushings on my 1929 Tudor Sedan are badly worn on both sides I have to disassemble the front axle.
During the process I found that the locking bolts for the king pins are different from what I would have expected to see on a stock Model A (see pictures). There is a castle nut on the front side and some kind of long wheel nut on the rear side. I was able to remove both castle nuts but the wheel nuts on the rear side are sitting solidly in place (even after heating them up with a torch).
What kind of locking bolt arrangement is this and what would be the best way to get it out of the front axle. Any help is highly appreciated.

Cheers,
Mirko
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Kingpin locking bolt_1.jpg (59.5 KB, 203 views)
File Type: jpg Kingpin locking bolt_2.jpg (64.4 KB, 196 views)
File Type: jpg Kingpin locking bolt_3.jpg (61.5 KB, 193 views)
The Austrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2022, 04:30 PM   #2
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,471
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

Something weird is going on there. The cotter pin that holds the king pin goes in from the front and the nut at the back. The nut is also the stop that prevents the steering going too far. I hope you post pictures of that after you get it out. I suspect the cotter pin has been put in backwards.
Many people make the mistake of driving the cotter pin in too hard and ruin the axle by stretching the eye.
__________________
I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 01-06-2022, 05:32 PM   #3
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 8,711
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

Those are the early ones, beginning to April 1929.
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2022, 07:49 PM   #4
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,471
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

I've never seen one like that (even on my '28) and I guess that is because the vendors don't offer them. If that is so, they will gradually disappear.
__________________
I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2022, 09:32 PM   #5
aermotor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,099
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Austrian View Post
Hello,

since the kingpin bushings on my 1929 Tudor Sedan are badly worn on both sides I have to disassemble the front axle.
During the process I found that the locking bolts for the king pins are different from what I would have expected to see on a stock Model A (see pictures). There is a castle nut on the front side and some kind of long wheel nut on the rear side. I was able to remove both castle nuts but the wheel nuts on the rear side are sitting solidly in place (even after heating them up with a torch).
What kind of locking bolt arrangement is this and what would be the best way to get it out of the front axle. Any help is highly appreciated.

Cheers,
Mirko
Knock that out with an impact gun and see what you have as far as using one that the current vendors supply. You will be no worse off than trying to save it.

John
aermotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 03:48 AM   #6
The Austrian
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Austria
Posts: 19
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Hi Guys,
thanks for your replies. Before I get the impact gun / air chisel out I would like to confirm to which side I have to knock the lockingpin out. The usual direction would be from rear to front but to do this I will have to get the lock nuts off on the rear side. Is my understanding correct?
Cheers,
Mirko
The Austrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 08:11 AM   #7
edzaha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 206
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

Should be from front to rear
edzaha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 08:31 AM   #8
Big hammer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Land of Lincoln
Posts: 3,114
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

Yeah put a good nut where the Castle nut was and try knocking it backwards
__________________
Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap
get a bigger hammer tap done
Big hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 11:40 AM   #9
The Austrian
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Austria
Posts: 19
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

Hello,
I was able to get the lockpins removed from the axle. Here is how it went:
After hitting the locking pins with an air chisel from the front side nothing moved. That led me to think that the nut on the rear side needed to be removed first. Out came the impact wrench but first I had to cut off the extensions from the nuts to get access for the socket.
Once the impact wrench got to work the locking pin slowly started rotating in the axle. After some more blasts with the impact wrench the pin was loose enough to push it out with the air chisel from the front side of the axle.
In the pictures you can see the locking pins after I removed them (one of the nuts got split into three parts during the air chisel operation).
Now I need to find out what kind of locking pins these are and where to get new ones. As oposed to any locking pin I have seen so far they are round without any flat spot. They are inserted into the axle from the rear side and then locked with a castle nut and a cotter pin on the front side.
Cheers,
Mirko
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Lock pins removed.jpg (59.2 KB, 92 views)
File Type: jpg Front axle wo lock pin_front side.jpg (60.4 KB, 62 views)
The Austrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 11:53 AM   #10
edzaha
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 206
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

The ones that the vendors sell as replacements should work, and look more like originals.
edzaha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 12:02 PM   #11
Gary Karr
Senior Member
 
Gary Karr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,483
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

Well, sadly you ruined an original set of spindle bolt locking pins!
Gary Karr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 12:22 PM   #12
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 5,004
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Karr View Post
Well, sadly you ruined an original set of spindle bolt locking pins!
They could be rebuilt/restored.
__________________
If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!.
Got my education out behind the barn!
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 01:07 PM   #13
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 8,711
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Karr View Post
Well, sadly you ruined an original set of spindle bolt locking pins!

Exactly what I was thinking.
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 01:10 PM   #14
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 8,711
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by edzaha View Post
The ones that the vendors sell as replacements should work, and look more like originals.

The ones he took out are originals used until April 1929.
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 01:18 PM   #15
daren007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Saint Cloud Mn
Posts: 745
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

A BFH to the threads. If you want to save the pins run a nut down them until flush on end of pin.
daren007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 01:58 PM   #16
aermotor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,099
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by daren007 View Post
A BFH to the threads. If you want to save the pins run a nut down them until flush on end of pin.
If a castellated nut put the flat side out and even with the end of the bolt.
aermotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 02:01 PM   #17
aermotor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,099
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob C View Post
The ones he took out are originals used until April 1929.
I have a 28 and the pins are tapered like the vendors sell now. Were these tapered?
aermotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 02:02 PM   #18
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Largo Florida
Posts: 7,225
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

What Katy and daren said.


But, there were I think 3 'upgrades' thru the years. And replacements are readily available.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 02:34 PM   #19
The Austrian
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Austria
Posts: 19
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

No, the locking pins that I removed from the axle were not tapered.
The Austrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2022, 04:06 PM   #20
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,471
Default Re: Model A kingpin locking bolt removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Austrian View Post
Hello,
.......
They are inserted into the axle from the rear side and then locked with a castle nut and a cotter pin on the front side.
Cheers,
Mirko
Using a cotter pin to secure a cotter pin. Interesting concept.
Here is a dictionary definition:

A cotter is a pin or wedge passing through a hole to fix parts tightly together. In English usage cotter pin has the same meaning.
Typical applications are in fixing a crank to its crankshaft, as in a bicycle, or a piston rod to a crosshead, as in a steam engine. Note: the angle of the wedge determines the position of the parts being held, therefore on a bicycle the pedal arms will only be at 180 degrees to each other if the angle of the cotter pin's wedge is the same on both pins.

cotter (n.)

"wedge-shaped piece or bolt which fits into a hole used in fastening or tightening," 1640s, of uncertain origin; perhaps a shortened form of cotterel, a dialectal word for "cotter pin or bolt, bracket to hang a pot over a fire" (1560s), itself of uncertain origin. Cotter-pin is attested by 1849.

And another:

NOUN
1. any part, such as a pin, wedge, key, etc, that is used to secure two other parts so that relative motion between them is prevented
2. short for cotter pin
VERB
3. (transitive)
to secure (two parts) with a cotter
Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers
__________________
I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:19 AM.