So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Paul Shinn has produced another quality video that topics on something I have preached for a long time. Go have a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB6ReOj7qEE&t=358s

Everywhere you look, it seems there are ads that have 'restored' Model-As for sale for $10k-$20k, ....but, -can these cars reliably Start, Stop, and Steer on a daily basis just like they did some 90 years ago? The truthful answer is "No!". The reason is simple. Whether we like to admit it or not, in reality these so-called Model-As were really just 'R&R-ed' (Repaired & Repainted) instead of truly being 'Restored'. Paul does a fantastic job of explaining all of this in his YouTube video where he found himself taking one of those 'restored' Model-As, and actually restoring what components were just repaired before by the previous owner so that it would be reliable being driven on a daily basis. A touchy topic for some hobbyists, but take note of what Paul is saying when discussing the actual $$ value of a Model-A that has been 'sorted'.

.

[Patrick L.]

I've not yet looked at Paul's video.
It seems to me that a vehicle doesn't have to be restored to be able to perform the 3 S's. If its been repaired properly it should handle those tasks quite well.

[ronn]

Ill bite. 30% comfortably..............

[Ray64]

Enjoyed the videos Thanks

[kenparker0703]

My '31 Blue Coupe" can do the "Three S's reliabily", but is no longer a daily driver. Woody can do it too.

[WHN]

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I am a little confused?

Are we saying a car has to be completely restored to show quality to be considered a safe daily driver?

I have a car that the body has never been off the frame. However, everything else has at one point or another. Rear end, transmission, rebuilt engine, completely professional rebuilt front end and braking system, new springs and new correct shocks, new tires, new correct radiator, new Zenith carburetor, rebuilt distributor and generator, leakless water pump, new aluminum two blade fan, new wiring. The list goes on and on.

Would a car like this not be considered a Safe Driver. Oh! It has also won many awards at local car shows in the pre 1930 class.

I don’t call our car restored, just well maintained as you would your modern car.

Enjoy.

[Jeff P. / MN]

Brent, Excellent video, thank you for posting. I am fortunate that my Model A was RESTORED by a retired airline mechanic and instructor of same. His work and attention to detail was beyond fastidious. With proper maintenance I will benefit from his work as long as I am the caretaker.

[Bob Bidonde]

Both of my Model A's can do the 3 S's, but the steering is by Armstrong! I have been experimenting for several years with different combinations of front tire pressures and steering gear lube, but as I mature over 78, my body has less Armstrong, and the Model A's steering has too much. I am currently running with a combo of grease + SAE 140 + Teflon in the steering gearbox, and 30 psig front tire pressure.

I find 35 psig gives too harsh a reaction to road bumps, it is easier to steer. It would be fantastic if some entrepreneur made a numerically lower set of steering gears.

[MikeK]

Paul Shinn's video was nice, and he still has a flip phone?

If the three S'es were Stall, Shimmy, and Short-circuit I'd say 50%. Without those maladies half the posts here would disappear.

[alexiskai]

What I appreciate about this approach is that attaining the 3 S's is very much within the capabilities of most owners. Rebuilding the steering, drivetrain, brakes, electrical, and fuel delivery can (mostly) be done with basic tools. That's not to say that it's easy, or that you're likely to do it correctly the first time. But you can do it until you get it right.

It's also the case that the 3 S's are invisible – certainly to casual inspection and mostly to close inspection as well. Can't tell until you drive it. So there's no incentive to correct them if your intent is to produce a car that unskilled onlookers will compliment you on.

[denis4x4]

Since March, I've been using my hot rod A's on almost a daily basis. This photo was taken right after Thanksgiving at the local grocery store. The Chevy is owned by a guy passing through from Utah and the Cobra is a neighbor's. I use the '29 CCPU (avatar) when I know that I'm buying more than a quart of milk. So yes, my A's Stop, Start and Steer and they get used almost on a daily basis.

[Jack Shaft]

Depends .. some value the mechanical correctness, others appearance.. some want both, others settle for neither.. what's interesting is how ever beautiful in engineering or design the machine is inanimate, it only reflects the whims of the owner.

Bob, try a 53 to 56 ford f1 steering box if you haven't already, 17 to 1 ratio.. you seem pretty handy, you can modify it yourself to fit, other than machining the sector shaft.

[Mister Moose]

I've watched a number of his videos.

My car was frame off re-build with 2 exceptions as money wasn't plentiful; steering box and rear end were left to "lets see how they drive, seem OK now."

The steering problem turned out to be the not the box but the pitman-sector connection and the sector housing moving on the frame. The read end differential so far is fine.

My brakes work fine, but they feel a little like they 'stretch' on firm application. Steering is vibration free at every speed, tracks like any modern car. About 3/4" play at the rim. Starting, if I run it frequently is good. Let it sit 3 months and ... not so much. It cranks slow, at first I was told the engine seals were tight and would break in, I'm now suspecting poor ground or weak cable.

I'm also running with no shocks. Don't seem to need 'em. I have the 4 originals, but so far it hasn't been worth the trouble/expense to rebuild and put them on.

[Licensed to kill]

Please excuse my ignorance but what is with the second shifter?. Is that for an OD auxiliary box?

[Bob Bidonde]

Thanks Jack. I have a spare steering to play with, so I will try the graft of a the later Ford gearbox.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Licensed to kill

Please excuse my ignorance but what is with the second shifter?. Is that for an OD auxiliary box?

Mitchell overdrive shifter

[Ernie Vitucci]

Good Morning Bob...What about the shorter Pitman Arm? According to venders it makes steering easier...Ernie in Arizona

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

I find 35 psig gives too harsh a reaction to road bumps, it is easier to steer.

I wonder how switching to radials would affect this tradeoff.

[McMimmcs]

I have several Model A’s and they all meet the aforementioned criteria only because my cars are maintained by a very competent mechanic!

[katy]

My '31 CCPU was refurbished, not restored. It can start, steer and stop w/out any problems.

[Jack Shaft]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

Mitchell overdrive shifter

Thats where the wizards are controlled..know why a mitchell is expensive? Its worth it

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by WHN

I am a little confused?

Are we saying a car has to be completely restored to show quality to be considered a safe daily driver?

I don’t call our car restored, just well maintained as you would your modern car.

Enjoy.

Hmm, If we maintained an A as we do our modern cars, it would quickly become useless yard art! My VW Diesel (what a sweet little engine!) gets an oil change every 10,000 miles. There is nothing to grease, never have to adjust the brakes, etc. Most, if not all, gas cars have 100,000 mile spark plugs. No points to adjust and replace. No carburetors to adjust and rebuild. No need to repack wheel bearings. And the list goes on.

[WHN]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Hmm, If we maintained an A as we do our modern cars, it would quickly become useless yard art! My VW Diesel (what a sweet little engine!) gets an oil change every 10,000 miles. There is nothing to grease, never have to adjust the brakes, etc. Most, if not all, gas cars have 100,000 mile spark plugs. No points to adjust and replace. No carburetors to adjust and rebuild. No need to repack wheel bearings. And the list goes on.

Following the manufactures recommended services. 1929 oil change 500 miles, 2020 oil change 7,500 miles.

Whether a 2020 Ford Escape or a 1929 Model A Ford coupe, if you maintain the car correctly, as per the recommended service intervals, any car will last longer.

Our Volvo’s last for years and are past down to other family members. 200,000 miles is easy. 20 years old, not a problem.

[Jack Shaft]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Hmm, If we maintained an A as we do our modern cars, it would quickly become useless yard art! My VW Diesel (what a sweet little engine!) gets an oil change every 10,000 miles. There is nothing to grease, never have to adjust the brakes, etc. Most, if not all, gas cars have 100,000 mile spark plugs. No points to adjust and replace. No carburetors to adjust and rebuild. No need to repack wheel bearings. And the list goes on.

Computerized machining processes and engine design made the oil slick down the middle of the road a thing of the past.Its truly amazing the advancement made..

[CarlG]

My Pickup will now pass the test of the 3 S's. That wasn't always the case, I've had some help along the way:

Start: Ron Kelley Touring engine
Stop: Randy Gross Brakes
Steer: F100 steering box by Dave Delmue

[DBrer]

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thanks for the video, thats refreshing to watch.

[Bob Bidonde]

Ernie, I already have a shortened Pittman Arm.

[JRShaw]

Brent - Thank You for posting a most enjoyable video for us. I am sure that we all could use some uplifting, positive moments in our lives.

Take Care, Stay Safe Joel

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

I've not yet looked at Paul's video.
It seems to me that a vehicle doesn't have to be restored to be able to perform the 3 S's. If its been repaired properly it should handle those tasks quite well.

Originally Posted by katy

My '31 CCPU was refurbished, not restored. It can start, steer and stop w/out any problems.

In reality, my first-hand experiences counter this. The intention of the word "reliably" does not imply that it can do it randomly.

Reliably should infer that between tune-ups or maintenance ops it should be able to immediately start and drive every time, -and on every day for the whole time between those maintenance operations. For example, it was easy enough for a Model-A to reliably go 5,000 miles between services (tune-up, brake adjustment, et/al). If the car were driven 25 miles each day for 200 consecutive day, that is roughly 5,000 miles, -or a little over 6 months. A new Model-A could easily do that. A well maintained Model-A back then could do that!

So how many 'restored' Model-As can be driven 25 miles each day for 200 consecutive days without the carburetor being removed & cleaned out, the ignition points files or fiddled with, the brakes adjusted, or the clutch adjusted, -or fluid levels (coolant, engine oil, transmission/rear end lube) replenished because of leaks? Most hobbyists if they are honest will tell you they often spend an hour or so with their 'restored' car just to get ready to drive it on a tour. This never happened back in the day. Now some will bark and say it is because we don't drive them every day. Maybe so, but my lawnmower only gets run once a week however I don't have to spend time before I use it each week either. Same thing applies with boats or motorhomes that are occasionally driven.


Paul's point (-and I agree) is that we all have seen (-time & time again) a car that is called 'restored' yet when purchased and driven some, it does not meet the criteria of a "Restored vehicle" (-returned to a condition equal or greater than when it was manufactured). Many/most of us here are the crème of the crop when it relates to maintaining our own Model-As, so this typically does not apply to our cars but then again, our numbers here are small in comparison to the number of hobbyists in the Model-A world. Therefore this is not really pointing the finger as us who are responding. Insurance companies are the ones that are setting the value of our vehicles based on the 'non-restored' cars on the market.

Again, it is my position that if someone cannot drive their Model-A for at least several thousand miles without the need to repair something (anything!!) that is related to it being operated just as Henry designed it to be, then somewhere in there will be something related to those three S's. Paul prepped his Model-A to be a reliable car that he could jump in and go anywhere at a moments notice without any work needing to be done beforehand.

.

[KGBnut]

Brent,

Your reputation for quality is well known here, and I love Paul's videos (although I haven't watched this one yet). I consider myself a fair hobbyist mechanic. I think I have done a pretty good job going through my car mechanically. I don't pretend that it is perfect, but she does everything she is suppose to do, and I feel safe running in modern traffic.

With that in mind, can you clarify the difference between "repaired" and "restored" in this context?

I genuinely respect your opinion.

Ken

[KGBnut]

Sorry... that is what I get for being called away in the middle of typing....

You actually answered my question in your last post, but I didn't see it.

Ken

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by KGBnut

With that in mind, can you clarify the difference between "repaired" and "restored" in this context?

I think Brent's arguing that to restore a given component or subsystem should mean to bring it reasonably close to the factory specs, while to repair that subsystem can mean that you simply "got it working," where the standard for that subsystem's performance and reliability can be quite subjective.

[Kurt in NJ]

At this point I consider my car 80%, I think nothing of jumping in and putting 100 miles on it, probably wouldn't even open the hood before going, it's 50 years since restoration and it's due again in many aspects, I have never won any show trophies , do have a blue ribbon at a show I drove over 1500 miles to.
In my local area I got to drive a couple of cars that won many best of show trophies, they were scary to drive at 35, always arrive at show on trailer.
What always made me wonder is the phrase "it's just a driver", usually used in conjunction with a comment "I don't need show car parts " when told they need new parts like working shocks or steering parts.--- my thoughts are that a "driver" needs the best mechanical parts

[Mister Moose]

Originally Posted by WHN

Our Volvo’s last for years and are past down to other family members. 200,000 miles is easy. 20 years old, not a problem.

You must not drive in the snow much. We do, and our cars literally dissolve in 12-16 years. The last pickup rotted out the bed, spring shackles, and cab mounts. The last Subaru rotted out front suspension parts and the engine X cradle, along with serious body rot. The Toyota pickup before that rotted out most of the frame, so much so one wheel slipped aft and almost decoupled the drive shaft.

[wwirz]

My 1930 Tudor can stop and steer without an issue. It starts easily, except when the condenser goes bad. I know many have problems with the condenser. I have gone through 4 of them in 6 months. I plan on mounting mine external of the distributor next year and using a more modern condenser. My A runs good too.....40 MPH...no issues.

[WHN]

Originally Posted by Mister Moose

You must not drive in the snow much. We do, and our cars literally dissolve in 12-16 years. The last pickup rotted out the bed, spring shackles, and cab mounts. The last Subaru rotted out front suspension parts and the engine X cradle, along with serious body rot. The Toyota pickup before that rotted out most of the frame, so much so one wheel slipped aft and almost decoupled the drive shaft.

You have to wash the car in the winter.

Talk about snow! We lived in central New York for 25 years. Drove to Syracuse every work day. Our 1976 Volvo DL245 had some rust on it in 1986 when we traded it in, but from than until now, no rust problems on any of our cars. Our 2009 XC70 is now with our daughter in Saratoga Springs, New York. No rust yet. Nine Volvo’s, only one showed any rust.

You don’t know what winter snow is until you live in Up-State New York.

126 inches of snow last year in Syracuse. 67 days of measurable snow.

Enjoy.

[Mister Moose]

200-250 inches, Killington VT. There is no place to wash the car. You go for weeks on end driving through salt laden slush or snirt multiple times a day. I'll be driving in it tomorrow. We've seen 6" of snow in late May, and 3rd week in October. Pretty sure I know what winter is.

And speaking of which, I've been studying car wash underspray. I have yet to find a decent one. Many are wimpy single directional, single spray bar maybe 2/3 the width of the vehicle, if that. The robototron ones that circle the vehicle seem to have no underspray, even though it's an option.

[WHN]

Originally Posted by Mister Moose

200-250 inches, Killington VT. There is no place to wash the car. You go for weeks on end driving through salt laden slush or snirt multiple times a day. I'll be driving in it tomorrow. We've seen 6" of snow in late May, and 3rd week in October. Pretty sure I know what winter is.

And speaking of which, I've been studying car wash underspray. I have yet to find a decent one. Many are wimpy single directional, single spray bar maybe 2/3 the width of the vehicle, if that. The robototron ones that circle the vehicle seem to have no underspray, even though it's an option.

Great ski area. They make a lot of snow there.

Town of Killington’s average natural yearly snowfall is listed as 93 inches.

Syracuse is listed as one of the three snowiest cities in the US. Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse. Tug Hill, just north of Syracuse, is one of the snowiest places in North America. 400 plus inches of snow.

Have a safe trip to Killington. If your skiing, be safe.

Enjoy.

[Mister Moose]

Originally Posted by WHN

Great ski area. They make a lot of snow there.

Town of Killington’s average natural yearly snowfall is listed as 93 inches.

Syracuse is listed as one of the three snowiest cities in the US. Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse. Tug Hill, just north of Syracuse, is one of the snowiest places in North America. 400 plus inches of snow.

Have a safe trip to Killington. If your skiing, be safe.

Enjoy.

Places like Killington, Stowe, Jay, aren't cities, so they don't show up on your list. FYI, Jay claims 355", which I know Tug Hill still gets more, but Jay has, you know, vertical. I don't know your source for Killington snowfall, but even for the town hall in the river valley, it looks very low. Snowfall in VT is elevation dependent, so where I am and where I drive to daily is way more snow. Many days it is raining in Rutland sometime even raining at the town hall, and snowing on the mountain. We have days when it's raining at 2,000 ft and snowing at 2,600 ft. Most days mid winter you want to wash the car, but if you drive to Rutland to wash the car and stock up on groceries, the car will be coated back with salt and slush before you get home.

I've heard of Tug Hill. And I have been to Syracuse many times. Too bad there's no mountains there. I notice the Syracuse Ski Club is in Granville VT... not Tug Hill.

[Licensed to kill]

[QUOTE=BRENT in 10-uh-C;1960799]In reality, my first-hand experiences counter this. The intention of the word "reliably" does not imply that it can do it randomly.

Reliably should infer that between tune-ups or maintenance ops it should be able to immediately start and drive every time, -and on every day for the whole time between those maintenance operations. For example, it was easy enough for a Model-A to reliably go 5,000 miles between services (tune-up, brake adjustment, et/al). If the car were driven 25 miles each day for 200 consecutive day, that is roughly 5,000 miles, -or a little over 6 months. A new Model-A could easily do that. A well maintained Model-A back then could do that!

So how many 'restored' Model-As can be driven 25 miles each day for 200 consecutive days without the carburetor being removed & cleaned out, the ignition points files or fiddled with, the brakes adjusted, or the clutch adjusted, -or fluid levels (coolant, engine oil, transmission/rear end lube) replenished because of leaks? Most hobbyists if they are honest will tell you they often spend an hour or so with their 'restored' car just to get ready to drive it on a tour. This never happened back in the day. Now some will bark and say it is because we don't drive them every day. Maybe so, but my lawnmower only gets run once a week however I don't have to spend time before I use it each week either. Same thing applies with boats or motorhomes that are occasionally driven.

I don't follow what all of that has to do with the 3 S's. A car can leal like a sieve from every seal, windows won't roll down, and be full of bondo but still "
start, stop and steer" perfectly if that was the owners priority. While it's true that VERY few would ignore all these issues and put the 3 S's in top condition but the pint is that they are not really related.

Paul's point (-and I agree) is that we all have seen (-time & time again) a car that is called 'restored' yet when purchased and driven some, it does not meet the criteria of a "Restored vehicle" (-returned to a condition equal or greater than when it was manufactured). Many/most of us here are the crème of the crop when it relates to maintaining our own Model-As, so this typically does not apply to our cars but then again, our numbers here are small in comparison to the number of hobbyists in the Model-A world. Therefore this is not really pointing the finger as us who are responding. Insurance companies are the ones that are setting the value of our vehicles based on the 'non-restored' cars on the market.

That's not the definition of "restored". "restored" does not include "greater than" when out was manufactured. If you make something "greater than when it was manufactured" it's "modified" or "hot rodded" depending on the modification.

Again, it is my position that if someone cannot drive their Model-A for at least several thousand miles without the need to repair something (anything!!) that is related to it being operated just as Henry designed it to be, then somewhere in there will be something related to those three S's. Paul prepped his Model-A to be a reliable car that he could jump in and go anywhere at a moments notice without any work needing to be done beforehand.

.

Not sure what "several thousand miles" means exactly but how many miles of warranty do you provide on your restorations?. New cars come with MANY thousand mile warranty (50,000??). I think I know where you are coming from but I don't subscribe to the notion that a car has to be restored down to the last bolt to be safe and reliable. I Do agree that sellers like to throw the word "restored" around pretty freely and that few cars are actually TOTALLY restored and understand why that would bother those that actually DO do complete restorations, I'm not yet convinced that a COMPLETE restoration is required for a very safe and reliable car or that a complete restoration guarantees a safe and reliable car. Even with all of todays technology, manufacturers will turn out a turd once in a while that just can stay out of the shop from brand new.

[kawagumby]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

Thanks Jack. I have a spare steering to play with, so I will try the graft of a the later Ford gearbox.

You can get a fully modified ready to drop-in box from Randy Gross for about $800. That's what I did, and the car no longer feels like a row-crop tractor, LOL.



Tom

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by kawagumby

You can get a fully modified ready to drop-in box from Randy Gross for about $800. That's what I did, and the car no longer feels like a row-crop tractor, LOL.



Tom

Does Randy offer a RHD version?

[Chris in WNC]

Originally Posted by Mister Moose

I've watched a number of his videos.

I'm also running with no shocks. Don't seem to need 'em. I have the 4 originals, but so far it hasn't been worth the trouble/expense to rebuild and put them on.

The difference between shocks / no shocks is night and day.
Once you have them properly rebuilt and installed you will wish you had not put it off....

[Chris in WNC]

Our Town Sedan starts, stops and steers great.
As soon as I get new tires it will be ready for any and all long distance driving.

The majority of "restored" cars we see advertised are pretty paint jobs with nice upholstery and nothing more.
It usually takes careful and knowledgeable examination to separate the grain from the chaff.......

[Mister Moose]

Originally Posted by Chris in WNC

The difference between shocks / no shocks is night and day.
Once you have them properly rebuilt and installed you will wish you had not put it off....

I'm sure that's true in some cases. Driving on smooth paved roads it just doesn't seem to be a factor.

One thing left out in the discussion so far is Paul's use of 'sorted'. No matter how thorough the restoration, it was not done by a trained factory staff that does nothing but assemble Model A's with new parts every day of the year. Our restorations are done by people with various degrees of skill, restoring some parts, rebuilding some with parts that aren't quite exactly the same, or installing brand new parts made in far flung places where they don't use the parts they make. It's just common sense there will be some gremlins to flush out in the first 1,000 or so miles. That's when the car is 'sorted'. In my case, driving the car 100-200 miles a year, I've gone through cooling issues, steering issues, learning where I need to set the generator charge rate, and I still have a slow cranking engine to troubleshoot, a few windows that sometimes won't roll back up because the regulator gets hung up on something. I was stranded once with a bad condenser, and that can happen no matter how good the rest of the car is. Part of having confidence to drive these cars is having the tools and parts with you to fix these common breakdowns, and learning how to diagnose and fix them yourself. Because the AAA guy sure isn't going to know.

There are several differences between the Model A and a lawnmower:
The Model A will break down 30 miles away, not in your backyard.
The Model A uses parts that are not available at the auto parts store.
The Model A requires expertise that is not available at the local power equipment dealer.
The Model A attracts mice, the lawn mower does not.
The Model A is 1927 technology and tolerances, my mower is 2005 technology and tolerances.
My hand mower has no radiator, no battery or electric system, no lights, no brakes, no transmission, no clutch, no points, no steering, no suspension, no pneumatic tires, no windows, horn, or wiper, but other than that, yeah pretty much the same.

[jbwthree]

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Interesting discussion and one that is making me feel better about my recent purchase of a ’30 Tudor sedan. She has a nice paint job but lots of issues to sort out. All are manageable and I am enjoying the process but I haven’t been able to trust it yet for anything more than very local drives. The Model A parts suppliers are loving my new purchase because I’ve been placing weekly orders as I discover new issues. Like I tell my dog, she’s lucky she’s cute !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kurt in NJ]

Lawn mowers can attract mice too, and the A was built to tighter tolerances than many modern cars

[P.S.]

I was directed here by one of the thread participants and asked to comment.


I do not understand how the topic of sorted vs. restored could become an argument. This time, I 100% agree with Brent.


I have driven a lot of restored Model A's, and to be frank, some of them were downright frightening to drive.



It's pretty easy to understand if you look at it this way: Assuming you had to go on a 500+ mile drive over terrain that was not perfect and flat, and you were not allowed to have any tools or a cellphone, and there was nobody to help you. Would you trust your Model A the way it sits right this moment? I have two Model A's that are fully sorted that I would trust on such a trip. I also have 2 others that are fully restored but I would not even begin to think about driving on a trip like that. I also have one Model A that is unrestored and has never been taken apart that I consider sorted, but still would not trust it on a trip like that because I haven't personally turned every nut or bolt on it to confirm it is sorted.


So, in conclusion, my video wasn't meant to stir any controversy or emotional response. I was simply trying to share the experience I had of driving a Model A as a daily driver for the last 15 months in all conditions and why the car cannot be simply replaced with mere paper dollars in the event of a total loss. Sorting isn't a checklist you go down and check boxes or something I could make a video about "how to". Sorting may not be fully explainable to someone who doesn't already know or has done it. But Brent gets it, and I agree.


Thank you guys for watching my videos. Most of you are well beyond the personal skill level my videos are designed to help. I am mostly targeting the rank beginners and people who are thinking about getting a Model A and want to dip their toe in the water before jumping in. To have people whom I consider experts compliment my stuff is very flattering. Thanks!