Removing stuck parts

[jhowes]

I have read several times on here about heating the stuck part and then cooling with cold water. The thermal shock helps making in lose especially after many days or weeks of soaking in your favorite penetrating oil. I don't like the idea of pouring water on my car parts to help losing them. Has anyone tried a CO2 type fire extinguisher which put out a very cold cloud without the presence of water? At this point I need to unstick pistons from the cylinder wall where they have been stuck for the last 40 years or so. Just wondering. Jack

[Steve Plucker]

I have used the heat/cold water method many times on a lot of things with no problems. You just do not want to heat them RED HOT. Brass items...NO.

In your case...have not tried.

Pluck

[nhusa]

Heat and cold water will sometimes work on nuts and bolts but penetrating fluid (50-50 is best) is the first step.

As for stuck pistons heat and cold is impracticle.
There are numerous threads covering the methods to unstick an A motor so I will not go over them again.
Do a search and you will get more info than you will need.

[tbirdtbird]

a fire extinguisher would prolly work under certain circumstances.
Maybe not here, tho.
The real problem is the rings are rusted to the cyl. You will have trouble directing the extinguisher to the actual rings, and cooling the piston prolly won't help much.

You are gonna get a barrage of ideas and suggestions here.

What has always worked for me is to use Marvel Mystery Oil (yes that specific brand) about 1/4 inch in the holes. It may leak down so I always keep 1/4 inch in there. Since you do not know if one or all pistons are stuck, use the same treatment for all holes.
If any of the pistons are all the way to the top, there will be no room for MMO. In this case, build a dam around the top of the cyl using modeling clay from a hobby shop (NOT Play Doh). Then you can keep 1/4" of MMO in there. Each day, take a section of 2x4 and whack the top of each cylinder with a hammer, keeping the wood between the hammer and the piston. You will need patience and persistence. In some cases it has taken me a month using this method, but it always works. You are trying to free the piston without damaging anything, such as breaking a chunk out of the water jacket. You are using vibration to free the rings. Give 2-3 whacks, not as hard as you can but not love taps either. In all likelihood the pistons and rings will need replacing anyway; but you are not trying to beat the engine to death.....you can damage babbitt if you overdo it.

For the armchair group here, should you not like my method, simply post one of your own tried and true methods.
If someone responds with something they read in a book, be a bit leary. You want a method that has actually been tried first hand by someone who can share that experience. A lot of what shows up in books is wrong.

and I fully agree with the idea of avoiding water

[DougT]

My trick for pistons is to pour an inch or so of Kerosene in the bore. Diesel fuel will work, just don't use gasoline. Clean/scrape around the edges of the pistons first. Use a piece of paper as a wick and light the kerosene. Let it burn out and then take a block of wood about the same diameter as the piston an d try to drive it out. Sometimes it takes a few tries at the kero. The burning kero heats the block, the liquid kero helps keep the piston cool, and as the kero boils it thins out and goes down past the piston. I've had good luck with this method in all types of engines. Of course, this doesn't work so good if the pistons are at the top.

[C26Pinelake]

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Nuts and bolts, yes ! Pistons, not a chance! Wayne

[tbirdtbird]

Doug, I will second that motion, I have also done that.

I think the trick to both methods is be patient and not resort to pounding the tops of the pistons to death

[Tom Wesenberg]

Can you remove the crankshaft, so you are only trying to move one piston at a time?

[1929 essex]

When I got my Model A it had been sitting for 45 yrs. I googled unsticking a Model A engine, what I found was to put used Diesel oil in the spark plug holes until full, used diesel oil is more acidic (spelling) make sure you plug or put a baggy over the carb intake, disconnect the muffler and plug or a baggy the manifold. I didn't do that and when I started the car it sprayed oil like a geyser, check the level in the holes and keep it full. After about Three weeks I went out and tried to turn it over with the crank, nothing ,tried a couple days later and it turned about a inch, the next day it turned over all the way I kept cranking and it turned smooth. Drain the old oil out for a couple days and put in clean oil. While I was waiting I cleaned my dist. carb, timed it checked the wiring I put it all together hit the starter and it fired up after about three cranks it ran good with a smile from ear to ear. It still starts and runs good, I never pulled the head. After it started and sprayed oil out the back it blew the pipe off at the manifold clamp, I drilled a hole in the muffler and drained out three qts of oil, it was rusted anyway so I bought a new exhaust.

[tbirdtbird]

" sitting outside in the rain with no head on it for 50 or 60 years"

ouch!!!

[Synchro909]

If the engine is stuck because the pistons are seized in the bores, you should be able to remove the crank shaft. If you do that, there is no way you'll damage the bearings or bend a con rod by pounding the piston. You'll also only be fighting one cylinder at a time. I'd soak each with penetrating fluid first as described by others. I like acetone with a little automatic transmission oil added for that.

[Cornishman]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

a fire extinguisher would prolly work under certain circumstances.
Maybe not here, tho.
The real problem is the rings are rusted to the cyl. You will have trouble directing the extinguisher to the actual rings, and cooling the piston prolly won't help much.

You are gonna get a barrage of ideas and suggestions here.

What has always worked for me is to use Marvel Mystery Oil (yes that specific brand)

For the armchair group here, should you not like my method, simply post one of your own tried and true methods.
If someone responds with something they read in a book, be a bit leary. You want a method that has actually been tried first hand by someone who can share that experience. A lot of what shows up in books is wrong.

and I fully agree with the idea of avoiding water

Love it. Personally I'd go with the system where you disconnect the pistons from the crank and work on one piston at a time using your chosen form of penetrating.

[Cornishman]

Wooden block and hammer. Getting a single seized piston to move is a completely different proposition to getting a siezed motor to turn. The effect that even a bit of excess friction can have can be quite significant. Going back to the fire extinguisher, you might get further cooling the piston (dry ice?) rather than using heating and contracting as changes of great will affect the piston more than the block.

[Beauford]

Originally Posted by Cornishman

Wooden block and hammer. Getting a single seized piston to move is a completely different proposition to getting a siezed motor to turn. The effect that even a bit of excess friction can have can be quite significant. Going back to the fire extinguisher, you might get further cooling the piston (dry ice?) rather than using heating and contracting as changes of great will affect the piston more than the block.

I second this but use ATF soak for 3 days. Mine sat in the woods for 60+ years. Thankfully it had plugs in it which helped I assume. Take a cut piece of 2x4 as it fits perfect and rap the 2x4 lightly, turn board 90 degrees and rap again. Betcha she turns....

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Cornishman

Love it. Personally I'd go with the system where you disconnect the pistons from the crank and work on one piston at a time using your chosen form of penetrating.

If the pistons are stuck one may not be-able to remove the crank or disconnect all the rods from the crank for lack of connecting rod nut access and connecting rod angle.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Cornishman

Love it. Personally I'd go with the system where you disconnect the pistons from the crank and work on one piston at a time using your chosen form of penetrating.

Originally Posted by Cornishman

Wooden block and hammer. Getting a single seized piston to move is a completely different proposition to getting a siezed motor to turn. The effect that even a bit of excess friction can have can be quite significant. Going back to the fire extinguisher, you might get further cooling the piston (dry ice?) rather than using heating and contracting as changes of great will affect the piston more than the block.

Have you personally used dry ice? As i have never thought of doing that. Do u use it with penetrate or as a stand alone method. I am interested in learning about what has actually worked for you in freeing up stuck / frozen pistons..and the exact procedures taken if possible
Thnks in advance

[jhowes]

I would like to clear things up a bit. The crank is out, all I have is the block and the stuck pistons in the block. The motor was rebuilt ( whatever that means besides new rings) and left outside for years without a head on it. Go figure. I have been soaking it with acetone and
atf fluid for a week or so now and will continue for another month or more if necessary. I had made up round 1/4" steel plates to put in the cylinder to pound on instead of the pistons directly. That way it spreads the force of the pounding over the entire surface of the pistons, hopefully saving them from breaking. It worked on a previous engine so time will tell. I find that wood breaks easily when used as a striking tool, maybe I will try some oak or other hard wood. One last idea, would Evaporust work and free the rings from the cylinder walls? Thanks for all your suggestions. Jack

[Mitch//pa]

Jack
Yea more info really helps like knowing the crank is out... i have used evaporust for doing this.. keep a pan under the motor so if any of it leaks through the rings especially as it starts to free youll catch it for reuse later on another project...
keep us posted

[tbirdtbird]

Yikes, outside with no head!!! that hurts

not sure about the steel plates. I'd vote for hardwood. Not sure I would trust the ring lands after what you are gonna put them thru

be advised the cyl walls where the water jacket is will be quite thin; maybe only 1/8", be careful.

glad you have done this before.

Given all the new info, I'd borrow or buy a large needle scaler, and use it along the circumference of the piston once a day as well as using the wood block and a hammer daily. A needle scaler will set up a lot of vibration, which is key to loosening without damage.
I had to work on a '59 Caddy with a frozen dizzy on the rear of the engine. Could not really get back there. Could not be timed unless we figured out how to loosen it. Grabbed the needle scaler and set it on there for about 5 min a day, along with penetrant, for about a week, it finally broke free without damage.
You will chew the pistons up with a scaler but as mentioned I am not sure I would trust them anyway

Mitch might have a way to use his induction heating equipment here......

If the block is out of the car, crank out, and such, putting kero in there and lighting it off might help it along as mentioned above. Doug has done it and we have done that too. The trick here would be to not get it so hot as to melt the babbitt. I'd prolly do one cyl at a time with kero and then the needle scaler, and avoid the heat of doing the entire block. If you were careful you could control the heat well. This method won't harm the cyl walls since they will heat up slowly, and they were made to heat up from combustion, anyway. A dry ice approach might be too rapid a temp change and crack something; it is -109° after all

If you used kero 1 cyl at a time, you would not know when that cyl was free, but you could chip away at it this way.

If the head was off, would water have gotten into the water jacket and cracked something when it froze? You may have a can of worms here.....

[Flathead Dave]

Have you been rocking the crank back and forth after letting the pistons soak for a while? A machine shop can also get them unstuck.