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Old 03-30-2021, 09:28 AM   #21
KenBolton
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Default Re: help with Model A market values

In our area you’l do well to get 50% of your restoration cost back and that is for parts cost only. Realize the average original car today is in much worse condition than the average 40 years ago so it is more expensive to restore. As mentioned, profit is not why we do this. Total restore investment does have a bearing on initial procurement cost.
You mentioned taking an average of the prices offered. It you do so you’l end up with a value no one offered. Rank the prices then take the middle or mean value. That way you have an actual price.
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Old 03-30-2021, 11:04 AM   #22
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Default Re: help with Model A market values

Ron, if you have restored ‘34s you know what it takes to bring up an antique car. A Model A will be way less money than the buy in for an early V8, but the restoration costs will still be at least in the $10-$20 k range. I’ve owned about 20 Model A’s over a 50 year period, but restored only three. I usually made a little on the unrestored cars, but never broke even on the restored ones. Regarding the coupe and roadster in this discussion, I wouldn’t even consider either one, unless you want to spend a lot of time and money just for the experience of trying to save a very common Model A body style. You can find nice examples of finished, driveable coupes and roadsters for less money than restoring either of these, and enjoy them right away.
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Old 03-30-2021, 11:22 AM   #23
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Default Re: help with Model A market values

700
10-20 MIGHT buy materials for paint, upholstery, bright work and glass!
A good restoration these days is $30k plus if done “close” to correct
Building a model a engine is going to approach $4-5k
Ain’t pretty but it’s a hobby. No one I know travels, joins country clubs, golfs, etc with the thoughts of making money
Imho
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Old 03-30-2021, 02:02 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Oldbluoval View Post
700
10-20 MIGHT buy materials for paint, upholstery, bright work and glass!
A good restoration these days is $30k plus if done “close” to correct
Building a model a engine is going to approach $4-5k
Ain’t pretty but it’s a hobby. No one I know travels, joins country clubs, golfs, etc with the thoughts of making money
Imho
Thanks. I’m 76 and it’s been many moons since I seriously considered restoring a car. I’d heard from friends prices had gone way up, but didn’t fully appreciate how much! That’s why I said "at least".
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Old 03-30-2021, 02:17 PM   #25
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Default Re: help with Model A market values

Wick,
I am 5 hours north of you and at your prices- would buy 20 of them today and make a nice years salary.


Have never seen a coupe or roadster here in the last 20 yrs anywhere near 3-4k.........


the rodders would get to them way before any of you guys bought them and that has been expressed on this site many times. fact.
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Old 03-30-2021, 06:53 PM   #26
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I agree with Bob and Brent. Heck I have over $5,000 in my new engine. It adds up quick. I used to have a spreadsheet with every penny I spent on my A. I gave up.
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Old 03-30-2021, 09:15 PM   #27
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Default Re: help with Model A market values

One difference no one has mentioned yet in doing your own restoration vs buying someone else's, is someone else's has multiple past owners and in most cases aren't going to come with detailed documentation on what work was done and to what tolerance. With your own restoration you know exactly what you have. If you're going to keep the car a long time, the added expense is amortized over many years. If you think you'll recover the cost of a high quality restoration in a short period of time, you're likely to be disappointed.
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Old 03-31-2021, 03:31 AM   #28
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In my opinion, a fair value for either of these two cars would depend entirely upon your anticipated action once purchased. If for instance, the purpose in acquiring either of these would be to effect a fairly immediate resale, then a lower price, perhaps not to exceed $5k would be in order. An all new Brookville roadster body can be purchased for probably something in the $7-8k range now to include shipping, and a complete running gear for somewhere in the $1,000 - $1,500 range.

As for myself, Model A’s have been a part of my life for over fifty years now. Although I do not consider myself to be an exceptionally capable mechanic, I still enjoy an afternoon of tinkering. More importantly, and perhaps the real value in these cars, is the ownership of which has allowed me to meet some of the finest people and caring friends who also my happen to share my affliction with these old cars. When I drive one of these cars I try to arrange for as many back road routes as possible - that way I don’t get in a hurry and have to “slow down” - perhaps some of the best medicine I could hope for. And the memories of these old cars and the folks I spent time with while enjoying them together is priceless. Unfortunately neither of my daughters seems to have any real interest in these cars upon my demise, but in the meantime, my wife and I enjoy the good times that we share with others of like interest. We will soon be starting our fifth restoration, which when completed, will allow us to enjoy the company of up to seven of our friend and/or family, and should cover cars for each season ... a terrible monetary investment perhaps, but nonetheless one that I would prefer over a bank account representing whatever value they might command upon a sale. I once heard a good friend who owned several Rolls Royce’s, a couple of Packards, and an Auburn, remark that he preferred his cars over a large bank account - “I can’t drive a bank account”.

As for current monetary values for these two cars individually in their current conditions, I would estimate a FMV of somewhere in the $5k range. Good luck to you with whatever decision you might make.
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Old 03-31-2021, 04:15 AM   #29
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Default Re: help with Model A market values

I'll focus on the coupe. Could be AR, multi disc clutch and a pile of other things. A set of tires and new battery, I could have it running in no time. Hopefully block is not cracked or radiator bad. Wiring, gas tank condition is ok. The front end will need a total rebuild, they always do. Have it on the road running it could then bring $7,500. Let the next guy paint it.
The roadster, nobody in my area puts projects back together. They want turn key, I would put it back together, spray it flat black with red wheels. Then send it down the road.
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Old 03-31-2021, 07:33 AM   #30
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I'll focus on the coupe. Could be AR, multi disc clutch and a pile of other things. A set of tires and new battery, I could have it running in no time. Hopefully block is not cracked or radiator bad. Wiring, gas tank condition is ok. The front end will need a total rebuild, they always do. Have it on the road running it could then bring $7,500. Let the next guy paint it.
The roadster, nobody in my area puts projects back together. They want turn key, I would put it back together, spray it flat black with red wheels. Then send it down the road.
Very true in all areas.

Hardly anyone finishes their project any more in their own garage, ...much less buying one that needs completion.
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Old 03-31-2021, 07:36 AM   #31
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My $.02

You need either of these two derelicts ? Why, because possibly cheap ?

For not a lot more $$ you could buy either of these cars FINISHED.

That means driving next week which is way more appealing to me after a life time working out in the garage.
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Old 03-31-2021, 07:42 AM   #32
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I read all the time about the high cost of restoration. Yes that is true if a shop is doing the work. I would guest about 80% of the total cost is labor. Heck I just spent about 10 hrs restoring the wiper motor for my current project. At the labor rate for my day job that would be well over $500! However, if one has the abilities a do it yourself resto is very affordable. Im sure that a Model A is more part for part than the cars I am used to working on but my last car I had WAY less than 20k into the complete project including farming out the motor work. I do all of the work myself (except motors) and enjoy the challenge, and time spent in the shop. No knock on pro shops, but I believe that many 'home garage restorations' can be just as good and sometimes better than the pros.
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Old 03-31-2021, 09:59 AM   #33
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Default Re: help with Model A market values

77
Brent knows better than me as I haven't done a ground up in years. However, I do restore components and make alot of parts. I can tell you that a frame up used to take close to 1,000 hours if I humped it. At $40, that's $40K. The you pack on outside work such has engine, upholstery, paint, rubber, glass, chrome and whatever I may have not listed and that can easily be another $30K. So hip shoot is minimum $75K.
I'd say labor v. parts is 60/40. And there's a bunch that a home-garage restorer just can't do in an "average" shop.

So would you even put $40K in a sedan or coupe? Best scenario would be worth $30K and that isn't including the original purchase price. I think one is better off doing one of the rarer body styles and paying more for the original car.
IMHO
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Old 03-31-2021, 10:25 AM   #34
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I would look at the car from the point of view of how much personal work it is going to take to to get the car to the level you want to achieve. Then ask yourself will I have fun doing it? Then, buy what you like and can afford with no expectation that you will make a profit. If you are going to keep the car, the amount of any loss is spread out over several years having all that fun! The last point I would make is getting in and out of 28 & 29 cars is not easy if you have big feet!! Ed
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Old 03-31-2021, 11:18 AM   #35
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The market is not really a mess IMHO. I can make a great a argument that it is 'Restorers' that have brought this amongst themselves. Frugality and a 'half-ass' approach to restoration by many has caused the "restored" cars to be known as unreliable and undesirable. Financial expectations are unrealistic for many hobbyists.

Your second comment makes me just shake my head. The mentality that something must be worth more than what someone spent on it is absurd, ...especially in this hobby. So given those two examples, why is there a mindset to not spend more than it is worth? . THIS in a nutshell is what has killed this hobby.
Anything should be worth the investment when it's finished, or at least somewhat close to it. Why spend $30k to restore a car worth maybe $10k after it sits a couple years? The vast majority of enthusiasts don't have that kind of disposable income and very, very few can take car of the car well enough to keep it from aging poorly.
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Old 03-31-2021, 11:28 AM   #36
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..................ask yourself will I have fun doing it? Then, buy what you like and can afford with no expectation that you will make a profit. If you are going to keep the car, the amount of any loss is spread out over several years having all that fun! The last point I would make is getting in and out of 28 & 29 cars is not easy if you have big feet!! Ed
Well said Ed! And I also second your observation concerning feet placement in a '28-'29 vs a '30-'31 quite true

And Mr. Moose, I quite agree "....if you think you are going to get the cost of your restoration back in a short period of time you will be greatly disappointed". You have to look at these things as something for fun not profit. As Dick stated about his friend owning Packards and Rolls Royces (and other expensive antique automobiles) 'I CAN'T DRIVE A BANK ACCOUNT

Buy what you like and can half way afford, for whatever reason be it a Model A Ford or a Boss Mustang, enjoy the car, and do not look back. That is the winning combination.
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Old 03-31-2021, 11:52 AM   #37
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Anything should be worth the investment when it's finished, or at least somewhat close to it. Why spend $30k to restore a car worth maybe $10k after it sits a couple years? The vast majority of enthusiasts don't have that kind of disposable income and very, very few can take car of the car well enough to keep it from aging poorly.

I honestly don't know where you are coming up with that mindset, but I honestly cannot agree with your statement. As it has been stated over and over, ownership of most collector vehicles is NOT an investment, -nor should it be considered as such.

Your last sentence is very accurate though. Many car enthusiasts do NOT have the financial ability to afford owning a collector car, -and shouldn't however they do so anyway. That in a nutshell is why they can't take care of it.
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Old 03-31-2021, 01:15 PM   #38
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I am a car enthusiast, not a collector or restorer, but to consider the roadster, I would want to be able to get it back to California all for under 10k, before I would consider it. I love to build a car nicely, then after a few years build it again to a higher quality, correcting things that weren’t quite right the first time. It is never considered an investment; it is an activity filled with passion for the intended result. I don’t formally show my cars, but I thoroughly enjoy them. For me, the value of a project vehicle is as a base for whatever I envision making.

But the bottom line about car value, it is determined in a sale by whatever a buyer is willing to pay. It is time and circumstances dependent. What a seller wants, has spent, or thinks is the value are only impediments to an actual sale.
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Old 03-31-2021, 04:06 PM   #39
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The cars are worth what someone is willing to pay. I think this trend tells the story. Some people are not willing to take on the project and others place a value on them.
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Old 03-31-2021, 09:06 PM   #40
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I honestly don't know where you are coming up with that mindset, but I honestly cannot agree with your statement. As it has been stated over and over, ownership of most collector vehicles is NOT an investment, -nor should it be considered as such.

Your last sentence is very accurate though. Many car enthusiasts do NOT have the financial ability to afford owning a collector car, -and shouldn't however they do so anyway. That in a nutshell is why they can't take care of it.
I guess it's just how I value stuff. Everything I own is built to the standard that it's use dictates. Sounds kind of wonky but it's true. My 'A' started as a hot rod body stolen chassis and I'm making my own aluminum body (mostly because I wanted to learn how and I don't fit in a regular body). Everything else has been built to its use (Cummins powered '71 F350 dually dump, stretched Seadoo powered bass boat etc). I do have one very nice unrestored '68 Fairlane fastback with 38k miles that comes out once or twice a year. I bought it in 1991 with 34k miles and I feel more of a custodian than owner. I'm in the process of shedding a couple newer cars and ironically I'm going to make money on all of them with this crazy economy.

Anyway, I hope it helps you understand my thoughts.
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