Question regarding latest Model A News

[Jeff P. / MN]

I received my Sept/Oct Model A News today, another excellent issue put together by the excellent staff. The Model A Panel Delivery featured on the front cover is listed as a 1927. Why is this? It is my understanding that the Model A model years have been referred as 1928-1931. I understand that Ford of course sold Model A’s in late 1927 but as far as anything I have ever read or heard was that these cars (or truck in this case) were referred to by FORD as 1928 Models. Why is this referred to as a 1927 Model? Seems confusing to me and somewhat inconsistent on the part of MARC. What are your thoughts about this question?

This quote from the MARC website:
“MARC was formed in 1952 with the purpose to “encourage its members to acquire, preserve, restore, exhibit, and make use of the Model “A” Ford vehicle, model years 1928 through 1931, and all things pertaining to the Ford Model “A,” and to promote the introduction of ideas and fellowship among MARC members.”

Thank you for your opinions.
Respectfully, Jeff P.

[cpf240]

Probably going by production date based on the s/n.

Lots of people do that, not paying attention to 'model year'.

Though I don't know for sure if that is the case here.

[Steve Plucker]

Very interesting...have not got my issue yet but the Model A Panel Delivery was not introduced until August of 1928, where the Model A Deluxe Delivery was not introduced until January-March 1929.

You say it is a "TRUCK? Are you refering to the "AA" Trucks?

Maybe they made a typographical error???

Pluck

[Jeff P. / MN]

Steve, it is an AA truck with a Dec. 1927 VIN.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by Jeff P. / MN

Steve, it is an AA truck with a Dec. 1927 VIN.

Thanks Jeff,

Same for the 85-A Panel Delivery (131" WB)...August 1928 is when it made its apperarance.

Pluck

[Mike V. Florida]

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Originally Posted by Jeff P. / MN

I received my Sept/Oct Model A News today, another excellent issue put together by the excellent staff. The Model A Panel Delivery featured on the front cover is listed as a 1927. Why is this? It is my understanding that the Model A model years have been referred as 1928-1931. I understand that Ford of course sold Model A’s in late 1927 but as far as anything I have ever read or heard was that these cars (or truck in this case) were referred to by FORD as 1928 Models. Why is this referred to as a 1927 Model? Seems confusing to me and somewhat inconsistent on the part of MARC. What are your thoughts about this question?


Thank you for your opinions.
Respectfully, Jeff P.

Your post is actually two in one. First, as it has been mentioned the actual truck was not sold in 1927 despite the serial number. There are a number of reasons that a vehicle could have a different serial number.

Next, calling a Model A (AA) a 1927 model. The formal introduction of "The New Ford" was made December 2, 1927, October through December 1927, from the beginning of production through about engine number 5275

These vehicles have assemblies not found on later 1928 and 1929 vehicles and the first 200 were not even supposed to be sold to the public.

With only one month in 1927 having where the A (AA) was supposed to sold stating the the years of production 1928-1931 makes sense. By the way, there were A's made in 1932 as well.

The following body styles were introduced in 1927:
Phaeton 35-A
Roadster 40-A
Standard Coupe 45-A (steel back)
Sport Coupe 50-A
Tudor Sedan 55-A (1 0-21 -27)
Open Cab (Pickup only) 76-A
Heavy Trucks AA (production very limited)

[Jeff P. / MN]

Mike, my basic question is this.....should any Model A manufacted prior to Jan 1, 1928 be referred to as a “1927 Ford” ?

[jb-ob]

Jeff,

I haven't received the latest issue of MAN, but I suspect the vehicle of your question is a York-Hoover built panel body on an early, Nov-Dec. 1927, 'New Ford' chassis.

It was not uncommon for independent commercial body builders to purchase complete Ford running gear, cowl & gas tanks to create a truck.

The owner presented documentation for this body prior to the Gettysburg Meet and was given a 'variance' to enter Fine Point Judging. The chassis was complete and correct for his four digit engine.

The late Doc Kalinka started a special interest group, ''27 A's" dedicated to the first 5275 'New Ford' engines & their chassis built from Oct. 20, 1927 thru December 1927.
The title has come to refer to anyone with a four digit engine / chassis or interest in them.

Hope this helps.


JB

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Jeff P. / MN

Mike, my basic question is this.....should any Model A manufacted prior to Jan 1, 1928 be referred to as a “1927 Ford” ?

Why not?

[Bruce Adams]

Jeff, I picked up my 2012 Mustang in May 2011, and it is still a 2012.
Many claim 1964 1/2 Mustangs BUT they are ALL 1965 cars.
I can't imagine why someone would claim any Model A Ford is a 1927 using the same logic.
Didn't FMC call them all by the MODEL YEAR, not the year of manufacture?

[Jeff P. / MN]

Yes, that is exactly my point Bruce. I had a 1929 Model A 150-a Wagon that was mfg. Dec. 20 of 1928 BUT all Model A’s MFG. after Oct 1 1928 were referred as 1929’s by FORD. So be it, mine was a ‘29.

[Mike V. Florida]

"We" in the hobby recognize how special these first vehicles are and call them out as such in this case 1927 A's.

Formally the years of the Model A were 1928 until 1931.

[frank55a]

As I recall according to some of the past posts, depending on the original state of sale, some states titled the vehicle according to manufacture date while others titled the vehicle according to the year it was sold. Specifically, if you had a late year production A but was not sold until the next year it could be titled as two different years depending on the state of sale. As an example, by the engine number I have a late November 29 A and it is titled as a 29 there is no question it is a 29, however in some states if it was not originally sold until Jan 1930 it could have been titled as a 1930 which it is NOT.

Comment #11, this is the first I have heard/seen this statement "all Model A’s MFG. after Oct 1 1928 were referred as 1929’s by FORD. So be it, mine was a ‘29." What are your sources? If the date stamped on the fire wall is Dec 20 1928, considering transportation and other possible delays in shipping your A may not have been originally sold until early 29 which in many states would be titled as a 1929.

[Marshall V. Daut]

Is it that time of year for this topic to be argued at length again?
Here goes: I am of the opinion that a 1927 Ford is a Model T, which ended production in May of 1927. The Model A was introduced in early December of that year, but was considered a "1928" Ford. No Ford literature I am aware of called the new Ford a 1927 Ford. Why on earth would a company trying to distance itself from its almost laughably obsolete (by 1927 industry and consumer standards) Model T want to call its radically new model the same year as the last year for its unwanted red-headed, buck-toothed stepchild? During the next four years of Model A production, a couple new body styles came out very late in the calender/model year, such as the five December, 1928 station wagons and the Victoria Coupe. Although modern owners of these early station wagons insist of calling them "1928" Fords, the station wagon was a clearly intended to be a 1929 model. Had 10,000 of them been built in December, 1928, there MIGHT be an argument for them being called 1928 Station Wagons. But five is hardly an avalanche of proof that they should be considered 1928 Fords.
The same issue arises with the Victoria Coupe (the "Coupe" was dropped later in 1931). Production started on them in October or November of 1930, but ALL Victorias were and still are considered 1931 Fords, not 1930 Fords, even though they were built in late 1930. They received the new "Deluxe" radiator shell and one-piece splash aprons right off the bat, both unmistakable 1931 characteristics.The October-November build dates in 1930 pre-date the November-December, 1927, early Model A build dates by one month. Yet, the Victoria was considered a 1931 Model by FoMoCo.
I suppose we'll never settle this issue satisfactorily to all tastes. This subject pops up every once in a while and the same parties dig in their heels and take the same stance each time. Neither side seems willing to accept the other's arguments. The old expression "A man convinced against his will, will be of the same opinion still." applies here. The problem is not for us old dog Model A guys, who are set in our opinions. But the real problem is how the newcomers to the hobby (who will eventually dominate it by sheer numbers) perceive this issue. Whom are they going to believe? I am not going to get ulcers worrying whether some people call a Model A built in December of 1927 a "1927 Ford" or a "1928 Ford". However, I believe a more acceptable compromise would be to call such cars 1928 Fords that were built in 1927. That still retains the specialness of these early birds (as Hans Kalinka called them), yet it also correctly differentiates between a 1927 Ford (the last Model T year) and a 1928 Ford (the first Model A MODEL year).
Marshall

[mhsprecher]

I don't really care what it is called, but I suspect it has to do with cachet that early Model A's have. There are significant differences between the early A's and later ones. They used to be called ARs and that has changed to early 28's. It is really inside baseball for Model A aficionados and that is fine with me. It all helps the hobby.

The truck that started this whole discussion is a very cool truck. I saw it at the MARC meet and loved it. I love the early AA's with the wire wheels.

Complicating the story further is that the owner built a body from scratch, replicating the York bodies as a model, as he got the early chassis and didn't know what kind of body the truck originally had. What an incredible amount of work and what an accomplishment. More ambition, work, skill and determination than I could ever muster.

[Jeff P. / MN]

Frank, the date should have been Oct. 20, 1927.....my mistake.
Marshall, as usual you put into words my thoughts perfectly! BTW, I owned one of those first five wagons a few years ago, I always referred to it as a 1929.
Mssprecher, that ‘1927’ AA featured is a fantastic vehicle, no ? about that!!