1951 Victoria rear ring/pinion replacement

[atch]

Hello folks. I've got my eye on a 1951 Victoria that's 7 hours away from me. A bit far to be running to look at it every couple of days. The rear is said to be original to the car. I've been reading about the rear gear ratios in these cars and it appears that available ratios were 3.73, 4.11 and some even lower (if I've got these ratios wrong that's ok; suffice it to say that they are lower than I want/need).

According to the current owner the engine's pretty much screaming at highway speeds. I'm looking to change the ring/pinion if I buy this thing.

NOTES:
1. This will be used as more-or-less a daily driver car.
2. The car has a Chevy 350 V-8 and power glide trans (1:1 top gear). Don't expel me 'cause of that. It's already in there and I want to have the ability to hop in it, turn the key, and go on 2,000 mile trips at the drop of a hat.
3. I'm not interested in swapping to an OD trans.
4. I'm not interested in changing out the rear for later (8", 9", etc.)
5. While I'm perfectly capable of doing #3 or #4 I don't need another big project; I've got a '48 panel truck that I've had for 48 years that is undergoing a major rebuild. I've got a half done '31 2-dr sedan project that I inherited. That's enough projects for me.
6. I only plan to have the car for a year or two while my "good" projects are under construction, then resell.
7. After driving it for a year or two I might decide that I like it well enough to keep it though. The car is a nice driver but absolutely not a trailer queen.

I don't consider swapping ring/pinion a major project and should be done in an afternoon. All the alternatives will have the car off of the street for extended periods of time. Remember #5 above.

I've read in some places that this rear is a Dana 41 and in other places a Dana 44. Neither of these mean much to me; I sorta know my way around 8" and 9" Ford rears but never even seen one of these apart. Does anyone know the truth (Dana 41 or Dana 44)?

I've been looking for ring and pinion gear sets. It appears that even if NOS existed that the ratios would be lower than I want. I've also been looking at the old Ford parts houses (Southside Obsolete Ford, The Old Ford Store, Carpenter, Drake, etc.) and so far haven't come up with anything.

Summit Racing shows a 3.54:1 set and a 3.07:1 set. Their listing shows they are both for Dana 44.

Does anyone know if these will fit the original 1951 Ford Victoria rear housing and axle splines?

[WABOOM]

All I know is that my '51 Mercury came with a 19 spline Dana 44. I had it rebuilt 2 years ago and the shop I had do the work got the parts from Randy's. Although mine are a 3:31's because it's a Merc-o-matic.

[50fordcoupeman]

My avatar has a '55 Ford rear end under it. It had 4.11s in it. I believe it is a 3.23 ratio. It came out of car with an automatic tranny. Hope this helps.

[tubman]

My '51 Coupe with a manual transmission (no overdrive) came from the factory with a 3.55 (it was built at the St Paul plant for use in the flatlands of the midwest.) I believe that there are 3.23's available for the automatic cars, depending on which plant they came from. While I can run 70 on the freeway all day with no problems, I find myself trying to "grab another gear" every once in a while. Since I have a reasonably strong Merc in the car now, my plan is to add an OD this summer and keep the 3.55's.

[bobH]

I have the 49-51 Ford passenger shop manual, published by the FMC. I can only add to the confusion. It does not say in the manual what rear end is used, but I can say for sure that the pictures shown in the manual, show neither a 41 or a 44. So, I'm no help, assuming the pictures in the manual are 'authentic'.

[tubman]

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The Dana rear ends were used in Ford station wagons and Mercury's. As far as I know, the Ford passenger cars used a proprietary rear axle.

[rotorwrench]

The rear axle used in Ford cars other than station wagon or police types from 1949 till the 9" came out is the precursor to the 9" by design but they are not is the same strength category as the Dana 44 axle that was used for the heavier Ford wagon & police package plus the F1 pickup and Mercury line. These rear axles are getting harder to find hard parts for. With OP's limitations, all I could suggest is to find a rear from a 51 or later Ford-O-Matic car with the taller gears. There is no other choice that I know of.

[Frank Miller]

Call shoebox central and see if they might have what you need.

[atch]

Originally Posted by Frank Miller

Call shoebox central and see if they might have what you need.

I'll call by phone tomorrow. I had perused their website and came up empty.

[Don T]

My 50 Meteor (with OD) had a toasted rear end, I was unable to determine what it was but I would call it a Ford special. Could not find parts source so tried to find alternate diff, many fit under this car (Maverick for one, certain years and wheel stud spacing).However mine was a 4.10 and wanted to retain that for the overdrive but could not find anything in a newer diff with that numerically high, most were 3.^^. Did finally find a NOS ring and pinion set that was a 3.88 which is as close as I could get. My suggestion would be to go to a newer complete replacement diff as (1) It will likely be cheaper and will occur in your lifetime (2) The ford diff was not to durable behind a 100 horse flathead and expectations behind a 350 Chevy??

[atch]

Originally Posted by Don T

... My suggestion would be to go to a newer complete replacement diff as (1) It will likely be cheaper and will occur in your lifetime (2) The ford diff was not to durable behind a 100 horse flathead and expectations behind a 350 Chevy??

Ain't happenin'. It sounds like I'll just be passing on buying this car if I can't replace the ring/pinion. I'll just continue my search for an interim driver while my other projects are "down". See #5 in my original post.

Thanks to EVERYONE who has read, pondered, and responded. Even if I don't take your advice I'm indebted to you for your efforts.

[TJ]

A Maverick 8" should drop right into that Ford. You can find them with ratios of 2,79 to 3.25 in the automatic cars.

[tubman]

I personally think the '51 Victoria is the best looking of all the shoebox Fords. I have always wanted one, but could never find the right one and when a nice original club coupe came up, I jumped on it. It seems a shame to pass on a good one because of a minor rear-end issue. I keep my eyes open for an 8" Maverick rear axle because of the purported ease of installation.

I wish I were younger and closer.

[JSeery]

From OP

According to the current owner the engine's pretty much screaming at highway speeds. I'm looking to change the ring/pinion if I buy this thing.

NOTES:
1. This will be used as more-or-less a daily driver car.
2. The car has a Chevy 350 V-8 and power glide trans (1:1 top gear). Don't expel me 'cause of that. It's already in there and I want to have the ability to hop in it, turn the key, and go on 2,000 mile trips at the drop of a hat.
3. I'm not interested in swapping to an OD trans.
4. I'm not interested in changing out the rear for later (8", 9", etc.)
5. While I'm perfectly capable of doing #3 or #4 I don't need another big project; I've got a '48 panel truck that I've had for 48 years that is undergoing a major rebuild. I've got a half done '31 2-dr sedan project that I inherited. That's enough projects for me.
6. I only plan to have the car for a year or two while my "good" projects are under construction, then resell.
7. After driving it for a year or two I might decide that I like it well enough to keep it though. The car is a nice driver but absolutely not a trailer queen.

[amodel25]

'49 to '51 Ford
Standard no overdrive 3:73
Overdrive 4:11
Fordomatic 3:31 with 3:54 optional

All interchangeable

Pretty sure these secs are correct

[atch]

Originally Posted by amodel25

'49 to '51 Ford
Standard no overdrive 3:73
Overdrive 4:11
Fordomatic 3:31 with 3:54 optional

All interchangeable

Pretty sure these secs are correct

A 3.31:1 would work just fine. Maybe even a 3.54:1. BUT, where do you find one? I've been looking for complete rears and ring/pinion sets. These things appear to be made of unobtanium.

Anyone got any for sale?

[paul2748]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think the same rear with the removeable center section was used up to 1956 so any automatic center section would fit in your housing. Most of the automatic rears around tht time were 3.31.

[53Customline]

49-56 ford passenger car had a Ford rear end.
Parts are hard to get. I have a 53 which a tag showing 3.90 & shop manual did not show that option. These type of typos are common. It took me several months to find replacement spider gears. Crush bearings etc. lucky ring & pinion wear good. Seals & races readily available. Got all NOS from many places across country. During my research I never came across any options for Ring & pinion. Because of the run of the rear end parts are rare.

Mine is now rebuilt but not back in car or tested. Good luck & try all the NOS guys & EBay.
Randy in Raleigh