Locating dimple on timing gear

[erdaviesjr]

I'm having trouble locating the dimple on the timing gear. I can get very close by using a coat hanger and flashlight on #1 cylinder, but I'm never certain that I've actually found the dimple and am at TDC. I've got the rotor in the right spot, and I've tried rocking the car in 3rd gear, but I'm not sure if I've found the dimple, or if it's just the timing gear rotating. Any suggestions about finding TDC?

[Ruth]

Sometimes the dimple is shallow. It might help to "sharpen" the point of the pin a little.

[erdaviesjr]

I did try that, but perhaps not enough. I also tried using a punch that is much narrower. I'm wondering if the timing gear on my car has much of a dimple? If any? This was my Dad's car and he had the engine rebuilt in 2001.

[31Abone]

Not necassary ..just take out number one plug and with a flaslight look sideways and watch until top of piston is at top dead center,set rotor to number one,done ....much easier and quicker then fords idea ..

[Patrick L.]

Remove #1 sparkler and run the engine up to TDC on compression, Then look for the dimple. It may be easier to find this way. A light and a mirror help some fellas. Just watching the piston itself is not very accurate.

[Synchro909]

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Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Remove #1 sparkler and run the engine up to TDC, Then look for the dimple. It may be easier to find this way. A light and a mirror help some fellas. Just watching the piston itself is not very accurate.

I agree with that.
If you're unsure that you have TDC accurately enough, do the best you can and take the car for a drive.
If it is retarded, it won't rev well and will tend to get hot.
If it's too far advanced, it will run "harsh" and you might even be able to coax it to ping.
If you can't tell after that, you're near enough.
I believe that some owners spend way too much effort trying to get the timing just right, then go and change everything when they move the lever.

[Joe K]

If you're going to do either the dimple or the piston ALWAYS turn the engine in the direction of normal rotation.

I have lost motion too. Wife says I'm lazy. I tell her only slightly less than perfect fit but as long as motion is always forward I'm good with it.

Joe K

[leo]

Impossible to do with the radiator in place, I used a drill and bit to make the dimple more identifiable......

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by leo

Impossible to do with the radiator in place, I used a drill and bit to make the dimple more identifiable......

Very true with anything other than an "angle drill."

Or you can twiddle the sharp twist drill in your fingers. This works on fiber gears. Even on aluminum gears - brass maybe not so much.

Holding the drill in a tap wrench might help get more pressure and save your fingertips.


Joe K

[bigd1101]

Take out some spark plugs, put the car in neutral and turn the engine by hand with the fan or better yet, the belt. Yeah, yeah, yeah.........a no no in some circles but honestly, if your fan is not cracked, you've released enough pressure with the sparks out and you're not rocking thousands of pounds with one hand and trying to find the allusive dimple at the same time with the other. I've done this many times and found the dimple easy as pie. Then I set the timing with the New Rex wrench and bingo....good to go!


PS.....the dimple is a very subtle indentation and it's easy to miss it.


Here is an old Barn discussion on this. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...and+crank+sale

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Remove #1 sparkler and run the engine up to TDC, Then look for the dimple. It may be easier to find this way. A light and a mirror help some fellas. Just watching the piston itself is not very accurate.

Especially if you are 180° off...

[erdaviesjr]

Thanks fellers. I'm going to give it another try tonight.

[SSsssteamer]

Originally Posted by 31Abone

Not necassary ..just take out number one plug and with a flaslight look sideways and watch until top of piston is at top dead center,set rotor to number one,done ....much easier and quicker then fords idea ..

This above information doesn't work if the piston is on the top of its exhaust stroke. And you won't find the dimple in the timing gear at this point either. The top of the compression stroke with both valves closed is where you are going to find the timing gear dimple and also set your rotor to the number one cylinder.

[wmws]

I agree with SS except you can find the dimple at the top of the exhaust stroke. If you set your rotor there it would be 180* out.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by wmws

I agree with SS except you can find the dimple at the top of the exhaust stroke. If you set your rotor there it would be 180* out.

If your camshaft gear is placing the dimple under the timing pin hole at the top of the exhaust stroke, the gear has been installed wrong. The camshaft gear rotates at half the engine speed, so the dimple will only come around to the correct position on the compression stroke.... that's the whole point.

[BillLee/Chandler, TX]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

If your camshaft gear is placing the dimple under the timing pin hole at the top of the exhaust stroke, the gear has been installed wrong. The camshaft gear rotates at half the engine speed, so the dimple will only come around to the correct position on the compression stroke.... that's the whole point.

How would this be possible? The cam has two pins that align the cam gear. They are NOT symmetrical with the cam mount and the cam gear will only fit over them in the correct orientation. (I suppose there is a way for a ... to misuse a fool-proof system! )



The correct method has been listed above:
1. Take out the spark plugs
2. Transmission in neutral
3. Turn the engine by hand, either with the fan/fan belt (if you're comfortable doing that) or with the engine crank or with the special wrench available from the vendors.
4. Holding the pin in place, when the #1 approaches TDC on compression the pin will drop into the dimple. Yes, it doesn't move very far but it is obvious. If you go past the dimple slightly, just back the engine a bit, it will not hurt anything.


If you don't like the "feel the dimple with the pin", look at the vendors for the little devices that will visually tell you when the dimple is encountered.

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

If your camshaft gear is placing the dimple under the timing pin hole at the top of the exhaust stroke, the gear has been installed wrong. The camshaft gear rotates at half the engine speed, so the dimple will only come around to the correct position on the compression stroke.... that's the whole point.

Reread the post.

The man is stating to look at the rotor position.

Strange things happen, but, its darn near impossible to install the cam gear wrong. I say near impossible because some fellas can seem to do anything.

[wmws]

Alexiskia you are correct. The cam shaft would be 180* out which is not likely.

[1crosscut]

I use a short smallish phillips screwdriver to find it.
The only thing a phillips screwdriver will (should) fit on an A.

[aermotor]

When you do find it borrow some of the wives nail polish and dab some in the dimple. Makes it a lot easier to find with a mirror and flashlight next time.

John

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by aermotor

When you do find it borrow some of the wives nail polish and dab some in the dimple. Makes it a lot easier to find with a mirror and flashlight next time.

John

I just fabbed an external pointer and marked the pulley. Much easier than dealing with the pin.

[erdaviesjr]

So, if I had set my timing to what I thought was TDC, but in reality it was the top of the exhaust stroke on #1 piston, how would that play out when I tried to start the engine or run the car? I assume it would not start easily, run very well, and would backfire like crazy?? or not run at all??

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by erdaviesjr

So, if I had set my timing to what I thought was TDC, but in reality it was the top of the exhaust stroke on #1 piston, how would that play out when I tried to start the engine or run the car? I assume it would not start easily, run very well, and would backfire like crazy?? or not run at all??

You are correct. I use my thumb over the plug hole to know when it is coming up to TDC.

[bigd1101]

Originally Posted by erdaviesjr

So, if I had set my timing to what I thought was TDC, but in reality it was the top of the exhaust stroke on #1 piston, how would that play out when I tried to start the engine or run the car? I assume it would not start easily, run very well, and would backfire like crazy?? or not run at all??

This is why the dimple is used to set the timing. It's really not that complicated although with so many cooks in this broth here, and we all have our own methods in dealing with our cars, the easiest way (logically speaking) is once again, remove the spark plugs, put the car in NEUTRAL, and turn the engine over by hand using the fan or belt until you find the allusive dimple. Do NOT attempt this with the car in 3rd gear......as you are setting up a broken fan, a broken fan pulley and you are fighting against the gear you are in. The engine will turn very easily in NEUTRAL with the plugs OUT. This method makes it easy as you can turn the engine over as many times as it takes to find the indent, which on some cars, can be very difficult depending on the depth of the dimple.


Don

[donald1950]

i just spent about 2 hours turning the motor over very slowly with the fan belt and watching the rotor approach #1 position and i finally hit it and then use the fan belt to rock it back an forth to verify. it sure dont move much.......

[30 Closed Cab PU]

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Originally Posted by donald1950

i just spent about 2 hours turning the motor over very slowly with the fan belt and watching the rotor approach #1 position and i finally hit it and then use the fan belt to rock it back an forth to verify. it sure dont move much.......

I believe one or two of the venders sell a timing pin that is spring loaded so you do not have to hold the pin while turning the motor - maybe that would help.


Do not remember why, at one time was told not to use the fan belt to turn the motor, maybe hard on the water pump and generator bearings?


Also maybe something about the belt being tensioned to tight if able to turn the motor with the fan belt?


Interested in what other say about this.

[Y-Blockhead]

I bent up a 1⅜" wrench to fit the ratchet nut for turning over the engine slowly. The vendors sell a similar wrench. Just don't forget to remove it before you start the engine...

[katy]

I use my thumb over the plug hole to know when it is coming up to TDC.

Good logic.

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

If your camshaft gear is placing the dimple under the timing pin hole at the top of the exhaust stroke, the gear has been installed wrong. The camshaft gear rotates at half the engine speed, so the dimple will only come around to the correct position on the compression stroke.... that's the whole point.

Except in the case of a timing that was on my Model A engine,the dimple was drilled off a tooth.Not a new one but not the original one either.It had a metal hub that was loose and I went to replace it with one from Brattons so I thoughtBrattons was the wrong one until I checked with a couple other original ones. I remember than that the son of the previous owner told me this Model A starts and runs different than others concerning spark advance rod.

[Purdy Swoft]

The real problem is that the timing dimple on all of the replacement cam gears are to small for the original timing pin to work well. It is always best to enlarge the dimple when replacing the timing gear . I use a five sixteenths drill bit to enlarge the dimple . If the dimple is large as original , the model A is probably the easiest car ever to set the timing on . Since I was fourteen years old I've never needed to stick anything in a spark plug hole to tell when the piston was at the top or use a mirror to see the dimple through the timing pin hole . Ford made the model A simple for the common man to set the timing . A lot of people try to make setting the timing as difficult as possible and usually end up with a car that won't run at all .

[BillLee/Chandler, TX]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The real problem is that the timing dimple on all of the replacement cam gears are to small for the original timing pin to work well. It is always best to enlarge the dimple when replacing the timing gear . I use a five sixteenths drill bit to enlarge the dimple . If the dimple is large as original , the model A is probably the easiest car ever to set the timing on . Since I was fourteen years old I've never needed to stick anything in a spark plug hole to tell when the piston was at the top or use a mirror to see the dimple through the timing pin hole . Ford made the model A simple for the common man to set the timing . A lot of people try to make setting the timing as difficult as possible and usually end up with a car that won't run at all .

+1!!!!


Sharpening the end of the timing pin a bit helps as well if you can't get to the dimple to drill it larger.

[Purdy Swoft]

I agree .

[100IH]

Have seen compression tester hose with a whistle in place of pressure gauge, You know how to whistle don't you. Handy if it takes 2 hands to turn the crank. Also, If the side cover happens to be off, the #1 lifters will be equally down - both valves closed AND #4 lifters will be equally up - both valves open part way. that is where compression ends and power starts TDC will be within 2-3 deg. one way or another. Don't use a dog whistle, you won't hear it.

[Will N]

I find it amazing all the trouble folks have with just using the stock timing pin as designed with just the engine crank to turn the engine over. Maybe I'm lucky in that my timing dimple is pronounced enough that I can locate TDC with no problem. Remove the distributor cap and crank it around until the rotor comes close to the #1 terminal. Remove the pin and insert and while standing between the bumper and radiator, with your left hand put pressure on the pin. With your right hand (and maybe with help from your right knee!) slowly crank it over and you will feel the pin move as it drops into the dimple. It's as simple as can be- no need for mirrors or timing marks or spring loaded doodads- just as Henry intended.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Will N

I find it amazing all the trouble folks have with just using the stock timing pin as designed with just the engine crank to turn the engine over. Maybe I'm lucky in that my timing dimple is pronounced enough that I can locate TDC with no problem. Remove the distributor cap and crank it around until the rotor comes close to the #1 terminal. Remove the pin and insert and while standing between the bumper and radiator, with your left hand put pressure on the pin. With your right hand (and maybe with help from your right knee!) slowly crank it over and you will feel the pin move as it drops into the dimple. It's as simple as can be- no need for mirrors or timing marks or spring loaded doodads- just as Henry intended.

I think the main problem that people are inventing fixes for is the scenario where the rotor isn't already in roughly the right spot. A lot of distributor projects require removing the rotor and cam, or maybe the distributor was removed and then the engine position shifted while it was off.

In these cases, the need to potentially crank the engine through an entire cycle while feeling for the dimple is tedious and frequently strenuous. I often overshoot the dimple when doing this and have to back up or crank around again. So it doesn't surprise me that various workarounds have emerged as everyone makes up expedient solutions to a common problem.

[Patrick L.]

I don't understand why this seems to be a common problem and probably never will.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

I had problems 1st time, then found the tip about lining the rotor up with the #1 contact, still was not easy until I found it. Was looking for more of a depression and was tuning the crank too fast. Once I did it once or twice, then it was easy.

[Patrick L.]

Yep, practice makes perfect.

[Jacksonlll]

I know it is easy to turn the engine over using the fan blade, but I think it is the wrong thing to do. The pulley was designed to drive the pump and generator, not the engine. If you break your pulley, you have a bigger problem.
If you damage the fan blade, that is a major safety problem. I always just rock the car in third gear. Just my opinion.

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by Jacksonlll

I know it is easy to turn the engine over using the fan blade, but I think it is the wrong thing to do. The pulley was designed to drive the pump and generator, not the engine. If you break your pulley, you have a bigger problem.
If you damage the fan blade, that is a major safety problem. I always just rock the car in third gear. Just my opinion.

That is what I think also. It is very easy to turn the engine with the crank when the plugs are out.

[Nosetime]

My first car was an MG midget, engine was apart in a couple milk crates...I got it together and running at 15 years old. I've owned and worked on lots of stuff over the years and when I came to the Model A a couple years ago, I remember laughing at the simplicity. Why finding TDC is a problem, I find amusing. I guess the point is, we all bring a different set of skills and experience to the table.

[katy]

I guess the point is, we all bring a different set of skills and experience to the table.

Ditto

[erdaviesjr]

I tried all the above suggestions. I found that I was not able to turn the engine easily using the belt even with all the plugs removed. So, I continued to use the crank. I located the dimple before I loosened the rotor so I had a good idea where it should be by watching the rotor. I replaced the lower condenser with a modern upper plate from Nu Rex, and also changed the plugs. I'm still not sure the timing is in the exact right location, but it seems to be at TDC and the car is running really well through all speeds. No stuttering like it did before. Lots of pick up between 2nd and 3rd and I easily got the car up to 55 MPH on a 2 lane road near my house. i can't wait to take it out on the open road and she how she does. Thanks for all the suggestions!@

[katy]

Homemade crank nut wrench:

[30 Closed Cab PU]

I bought a crank wrench form a Model A part venor, is painted green I do not remember who I bought it from. The wrench handle hits the fan belt so is somewhat more difficult to use, so I take the fan belt off.

[wgmatt]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I had trouble finding the dimple also but bought this tool from Snyder's and now it's a breeze.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...earchByKeyword

[Patrick L.]

Set point opening [ .018-.022"/ preferred .020"]
Locate TDC with timing pin as you did, good.
Then use continuity meter or test light to set point opening by loosening and turning rotor. Make sure all shaft back-lash is removed when doing this.
It is important to do these procedures in correct order.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Set point opening [ .018-.022"/ preferred .020"]
Locate TDC with timing pin as you did, good.
Then use continuity meter or test light to set point opening by loosening and turning rotor. Make sure all shaft back-lash is removed when doing this.
It is important to do these procedures in correct order.

Also make sure the spark advance lever is fully retarded (up) when setting the timing/points.

[burner31]

I hold the screwdriver in my left hand and turn the motor with my right hand.
The sharp tip of the driver finds the dimple every time
Pull the plugs of course.

[100IH]

Everyone needs to learn a method that is always useful under all circumstances. That means don't rely on the distributor. On a new engine or just after head gasket the dist. has been out and needs to be re-installed in time with the camshaft position so one needs a method that does not rely on the rotor. If the rotor has not been moved, that's OK but often the thin washer underneath dist. cam can get lost leaving the cam able to migrate out of time with eveything else.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Realize most errors in this post so am editing to prevent possible long strings.


I think I understand what is said below is in cases where there may have been an assembly error and the dimple no longer indicates TDC #1, or a new gear timing mark is incorrectly stamped, an alternate method may have to be used. If all is assembled correctly and parts are correct then no problem. Ideally all you should really have to check is points gap and points timing (at full retard) with the dimple indicating TDC #1.


From what I think I understand, since the distributor is fixed, and only the points plates move, rotor position should be a close indicator for #1 TDC if it is lined up with the #1 position on the dist. body.


So changing the points timing does not affect rotor position, bur rotor position affects points timing. So I do not understand below about points timing affecting rotor position.


Would appreciate comments if my understanding is incorrect.

Originally Posted by 100IH

Everyone needs to learn a method that is always useful under all circumstances. That means don't rely on the distributor. On a new engine or just after head gasket the dist. has been out and needs to be re-installed in time with the camshaft position so one needs a method that does not rely on the rotor. If the rotor has not been moved, that's OK but often the thin washer underneath dist. cam can get lost leaving the cam able to migrate out of time with eveything else.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Deleted/edited my post above, got confused with what I thought I knew, and was off on a tangent.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

So changing the points timing does not affect rotor position, bur rotor position affects points timing. So I do not understand below about points timing affecting rotor position.

I think all he's saying is that one needs to be practiced in a method of setting timing that doesn't rely on the rotor position to get you in the ballpark of TDC, because there are many scenarios in which the rotor gets disconnected from the camshaft or loses its precision over time.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

Also make sure the spark advance lever is fully retarded (up) when setting the timing/points.

If there's any chance the engine will be started the engine with the crank handle - ever, I time the engine with the lever a couple of notches down. I run a high compresssion (5.5:1) head so I don't need as much advance as Henry gave us so the slightly less advance this gives me is not a worry.
By doing this, when the lever is all the way up, the spark fires slightly AFTER TDC so there is NO chance of the crank handle kicking back.
Just my safety tip!

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

Also make sure the spark advance lever is fully retarded (up) when setting the timing/points.

Ooopps, senior moment.

[katy]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

Realize most errors in this post so am editing to prevent possible long strings.


I think I understand what is said below is in cases where there may have been an assembly error and the dimple no longer indicates TDC #1, or a new gear timing mark is incorrectly stamped, an alternate method may have to be used. If all is assembled correctly and parts are correct then no problem. Ideally all you should really have to check is points gap and points timing (at full retard) with the dimple indicating TDC #1.


From what I think I understand, since the distributor is fixed, and only the points plates move, rotor position should be a close indicator for #1 TDC if it is lined up with the #1 position on the dist. body.


So changing the points timing does not affect rotor position, bur rotor position affects points timing. So I do not understand below about points timing affecting rotor position.


Would appreciate comments if my understanding is incorrect.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said,
but, I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." Author unknown.

[erdaviesjr]

I'm going to get one! thanks!

[Forddan]

I think my question is more or less on the topic.

I want to have a backup distributor. If I time a distributor and take it out to have it as backup:

Will keep the timing ?

Thanks

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Yes, it should keep its timing as long as it is going in the same motor it was point gapped and timed on.

[Railcarmover]

It should be close..but why take a chance? if you drop in the back up distributor,pin it up and check.Its important to master timing your car,detonation (spark knock) is a major contributor to main bearing failure,every time it knocks its akin to taking a sledgehammer to the top of the piston.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

It should be close..but why take a chance? if you drop in the back up distributor,pin it up and check.Its important to master timing your car,detonation (spark knock) is a major contributor to main bearing failure,every time it knocks its akin to taking a sledgehammer to the top of the piston.

If on the road, my thoughts are - but open to discussion, the spark lever should be able to be used to adjust for any small error in timing.


Yes/no?

[30 Closed Cab PU]

---removed due to double posting my above post

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

If on the road, my thoughts are - but open to discussion, the spark lever should be able to be used to adjust for any small error in timing.

I think for the original question, the idea was to keep the distributor as a backup for roadside repairs, where it could be swapped in as a single unit to save time. In that case, you're correct that the spark control rod could be used to correct for a minor timing offset.

However, I think Railcarmover's comment was meant to suggest that it would still be worthwhile to unscrew the timing pin, get out the crank, and crank it around just to make sure that the rotor is roughly in the right spot, because trying to start it with the rotor significantly misaligned could not only prolong your troubleshooting process, but also damage the engine.

[Railcarmover]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

If on the road, my thoughts are - but open to discussion, the spark lever should be able to be used to adjust for any small error in timing.


Yes/no?

Correct...its why the spark is adjustable,to allow you to set for condition.If the base timing is set too far advanced you potentially lose the ability to correct.My point is to always pin up when installing a distributor.

[Jersey Mike]

Use a mirror and a flashlight. Take the plugs out so it will turn easier.

[Forddan]

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Thank you !!!

Yes, my question about "having a backup distributor " was pointed to a road emergency. Nevertheless, it is very useful to know, that I will have to time again, as soon as possible, that backup distributor if I want to continue using it after the emergency.

To summarize what I understood:

- I can time a distributor and take it out. For an emergency (swap of distributor) will work. Let say to came back home from a short distance or few miles.

- But, if I want to leave it in the car best is to time it again ASAP.

This info, at least for me, is very useful!!!. I am brand new on Model A and still learning the very basic stuff.

I had in mind that once the distributor was timed you can take it out and insert it again any time later (months??) and will keep the timing. Now I know this is incorrect.

By the way, I also have an extra carburetor all setup, also for swap it in case of an emergency on the road.

Thank you all !!

[katy]

When you re-install the distributor you have to be sure to get the shaft in the right way. The tang and mating slot are off centre, but can be installed 1/2 turn out if not careful, especially if they're worn a bit.

[aermotor]

Originally Posted by Forddan

I had in mind that once the distributor was timed you can take it out and insert it again any time later (months??) and will keep the timing. Now I know this is incorrect.

This is not incorrect. The backup distributor if set up properly can run forever as though it were new. Human hands are the only thing that can change a mechanical junction (which timing is) whether dist. #1, #2 or even #12 back up.
Pull any of the 12 back up distributors turn the engine as many times as you want and it will still be in time when you drop any of the distributors back in.
Katy is correct if we talk about other worn parts.

John

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by aermotor

This is not incorrect. The backup distributor if set up properly can run forever as though it were new. Human hands are the only thing that can change a mechanical junction (which timing is) whether dist. #1, #2 or even #12 back up.
Pull any of the 12 back up distributors turn the engine as many times as you want and it will still be in time when you drop any of the distributors back in.
Katy is correct if we talk about other worn parts.

John

Ideally all will be OK, if you want to be on the safe side check.


One easy way is to check/set the points gap before putting the distributor in the motor, put dist. in the motor, fully retard the spark, set timing pin cylinder 1 TDC, and then use the Nurex Timing Wrench. It may not be 100 % fussy/correct, but is real close and is a quick check. The Nurex is especially useful for side of the road.

[Forddan]

Originally Posted by aermotor

This is not incorrect. The backup distributor if set up properly can run forever as though it were new. Human hands are the only thing that can change a mechanical junction (which timing is) whether dist. #1, #2 or even #12 back up.
Pull any of the 12 back up distributors turn the engine as many times as you want and it will still be in time when you drop any of the distributors back in.
Katy is correct if we talk about other worn parts.

John

Thanks John !

Short story: a few weeks back I had a thread where I described that my car was backfiring, stalling, shaking like a horse, etc.

All started after a 60 mile trip, fortunately at arrival to my house.

It took me 2 weeks and $150 in replacement parts to finally find that the distributor lower plate was grounding. Not the wire, the metal to what is soldered the wire.

I decided, to get a rebuilt distributor and have it at the trunk. In case that happens 50 miles away home I can swap the distributor. For me that will be easier to do "on the road" than changing parts and time again.

That is my rational and the origin of my question : Can I have a timed distributor in the car trunk for an emergency?

If I understand you well, the answer is YES.

Thanks again

[Mike V. Florida]

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=B071HYRPND

[1931 flamingo]

Geez 4 pages for one of the most basic steps to owning an A
Paul in CT

[katy]

One easy way is to check/set the points gap before putting the distributor in the motor, put dist. in the motor, fully retard the spark, set timing pin cylinder 1 TDC, and then use the Nurex Timing Wrench. It may not be 100 % fussy/correct, but is real close and is a quick check. The Nurex is especially useful for side of the road.

Eyeball works real good, been using that method for over 60 years.

[Purdy Swoft]

I agree with Paul . Some will probably never understand the basic steps to setting the timing . It is most important to First remove all of the spark plugs to remove compression . If a person has to fight compression , the closer the engine comes to the timing dimple , the harder the engine will be to turn . The harder the engine is to turn , the more likely it will be to go past the timing dimple . It is most important to get the initial timing as exact as possible !!!!!!! If the initial timing isn't correctly set it will be impossible to correctly set the spark for Full retard or advance , depending on which direction that the timing is off . With that said , When the timing pin drops into the dimple on the timing gear , Loosen the cam screw and adjust the distributor cam so that the trailing edge of the rotor tip points at the number one contact in the distributor cap . Remember that the distributor shaft and rotor rides on the trailing edge . The distributor turns in the counter clockwise direction . NO backlash should be allowed on the trailing side of the rotor tip when the cam screw is tightened . Many will have some worn in backlash in the distributor shaft . The timing will be retarded to whatever amount of backlash remains on the trailing side of the rotor tip after the cam screw is tightened . Backlash is what causes some to end up with retarded timing . In other words , where the rotor tip points is where the spark will go when it happens . Points gap controls when the spark happens . More gap advances the timing because the quicker the points open the more advanced the timing will end up . More gap advances , less gap retards . Factory specs are eighteen to twenty two thousands .When setting the timing , I always adjust the points first and then set the initial timing as EXACT as possible for better cooler performance . When the timing is the least bit retarded it will cause loss of power and over heating . Hopefully this will explain the difference between points and initial timing . When points and initial distributor timing is correctly set the driver will be able to use the spark lever to control the timing . I fully retard the spark lever when cranking the model A . When bucking , pinging or knocking occurs it will be necessary to retard the lever until the knocking, pinging or bucking goes away and that is the jest of using the spark lever. There is NO set spot that the spark lever needs to be except when starting the engine . Otherwise the position of the spark lever will depend on driving conditions . When pulling hills or when in a strain , more retard will be needed to prevent bucking when taking off or pings and knocks when in a strain . Modern cars advance and retard automatically, Model A's must be retarded or advanced by the driver and there is NO one place that the lever should be set for all the time use .


If a spare distributer has the timing set for the engine it will be used on , it can be removed and replaced without having to reset the timing . AS the points block wears the gap closes and retards the timing . If there is a power loss or hotter temps , check points gap first .

[100IH]

It's time to move on.

[Bill Batson]

I have a friend who was having trouble finding the dimple on the timing gear with the probe. He had a Harbor Freight cheap borescope or whatever they are called. Put the probe end in the timing hole and watched the screen till he had the dimple perfectly centered. I have never had a problem finding the dimple but have to admit this made it extremely easy. Plus that bore scope is very handy for a number of other inspections. Just something to think about.

[erdaviesjr]

Hey, I found the great, simple solution for me was to purchase the sping-loaded tool from Snyder's for about $25 to replace the timing probe on the Model A. When the spring loaded device hits the dimple, there is a noticeable movement on the device. I confirmed this when I removed the radiator to replace the head with a higher compression head. it found the dimple dead on. Problem solved for me with timing. Thanks for all the conributions! RD

[erdaviesjr]

Hey, I found the great, simple solution for me was to purchase the sping-loaded tool from Snyder's for about $25 to replace the timing probe on the Model A. When the spring loaded device hits the dimple, there is a noticeable movement on the device. I confirmed this when I removed the radiator to replace the head with a higher compression head. it found the dimple dead on. Problem solved for me with timing. Thanks for all the conributions! RD

[Chris Haynes]

Stock timing pins are round on the end. Grind it to a point. Works much better.

[rocket1]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

geez 4 pages for one of the most basic steps to owning an a
paul in ct

omg just thinking the same thing,but interesting reading!

[McMimmcs]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Geez 4 pages for one of the most basic steps to owning an A
Paul in CT

Just think of the size of the book if it was complicated. Thanks Paul

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Geez 4 pages for one of the most basic steps to owning an A
Paul in CT

I agree , timing and points adjustment are two most important things that need to be well understood . Where the rotor tip points is where the spark will be sent . When the points begin to open is when the spark occurs . Factory specs are anywhere from eighteen to twenty two thousands for the points gap . Points gap effects timing . More gap advances , less gap retards !!!

[katy]

I like to drill the dimple a little deeper before installing a replacement timing gear.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by 100IH

Everyone needs to learn a method that is always useful under all circumstances. That means don't rely on the distributor. On a new engine or just after head gasket the dist. has been out and needs to be re-installed in time with the camshaft position so one needs a method that does not rely on the rotor. If the rotor has not been moved, that's OK but often the thin washer underneath dist. cam can get lost leaving the cam able to migrate out of time with eveything else.

If the timing is correct in the first place , the distributor can be removed and replaced without needing to loosen and move the distributor cam as the timing will remain the same . If the distributor cam has been loosened and moved it will be necessary to reset the timing . When the timing pin drops into the dimple on the cam gear , loosen and adjust the distributor cam so that the trailing edge of the rotor tip points at the number one contact in the distributor cap with NO clockwise backlash . Anyone that doesn't understand this doesn't really know how to set the timing . Where the rotor tip points is MOST important . Points gap also matters because the spark happens when the points begin to open . This is one reason it is important to pay attention to the points gap when attempting to set the timing . A person MUST also pay attention to the distributor and where the rotor tip POINTS if they expect the engine to run at all .

[Patrick L.]

And now, we are on the 5th page. [smiley face]

[Purdy Swoft]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

No harm meant pat . If a person posts that where the rotor tip points when setting the timing doesn't matter , this is WAY wrong . Sorry but its hard to resist trying to explain how and why when wrong info is posted . I am trying to give helpful info rather than trying to learn .

[Patrick L.]

Thats why I added the smiley face Purdy.

I understand. I have a hard time resisting too. Your posts are always helpful and accurate.

The response wasn't directed at you. It was an addition to the 4th page comment. This is a heck of a thread on basic 'A' ownership. And now I'm to blame for its continuation especially since I've contributed nothing of use to it [ that I remember anyway].

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Purdy x2 - This is a common subject. For standard stock setting.

1 - Rotor has to point correctly to distributor contact Cylinder 1 at TDC on cylinder 1. This is set by the timing gear timing marks.

Once set never changes unless something major is wrong like a bad timing gear.

2 - Points timing - Gap the points first. Set advance lever to full retard. Set distributor cam so points just open with #1 cylinder at TDC.

TDC cylinder 1 is located with the timing pin in the dimple.

Typically does not change when the distributor is removed and same distributor is put back in the same Model A.

Points timing has to be performed when the cam screw is loosened, or if cam slips, or if new points, or if points/points block wears, or if the upper plate removed/replaced.

[daren007]

Oh good grief how did we put man on the moon. Fully retard spark. Put cyl #1 on TDC compression stroke. With rotor pointing to #1 on distributor body set points to just open with backlash removed. Done.

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by daren007

Oh good grief how did we put man on the moon. Fully retard spark. Put cyl #1 on TDC compression stroke. With rotor pointing to #1 on distributor body set points to just open with backlash removed. Done.

Yup, and we now have 90 posts about it !

[aermotor]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Yup, and we now have 90 posts about it !

If you have a spare distributer, time it as the above comments - take your pick! Next remove it and toss it under the seat, when or if you have a dist. failure on the road just retrieve it from under the seat and simply drop it in. No mess or fuss with TDC, rotor position, points position, etc. Post 91 and took longer to type than time it took to change the spare dist!

John

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by aermotor

If you have a spare distributer, time it as the above comments - take your pick! Next remove it and toss it under the seat, when or if you have a dist. failure on the road just retrieve it from under the seat and simply drop it in. No mess or fuss with TDC, rotor position, points position, etc. Post 91 and took longer to type than time it took to change the spare dist!

John

Years ago when folks were talking about how bad the modern upper plate conversions were, I was compelled to get one. When I put it in a distributor it was installed in the motor, the old original type dist. went in the box of emergency parts under the rumble seat. After about 12 or 15 yrs I ran across it and decided to put that old original style back in. Scraped off the rust, stuck it in, hit the starter button and away it went and it has been in and running for years. I'll check points setting and lube it every couple years. Its probably about time to put the modern plate one back in for another decade of use. My distributors don't get timed very often, they just get taken out and put back in every year or so. With all this Kung Flu lock down nonsense we have a lot of time to spend on this forum.

[DENY 411]

I am new at this,I was having same problem.I tried taking all plugs out using hand crank,
arms are too short for that.I bought one of the vendors wrenches solved the problem!