Failed Start After Carb Rebuild

[kcav8or]

I'm trying to resurrect my late father's 1931 Model A, and have just finished rebuilding the Tillotson carb, as well as replacing the coil, coil wire, and gascolator. I tried starting it today, and although I did get it to fire a few times, I couldn't get it started. I'm inexperienced with the car, so I'd like to get some opinions on the video here. What's the nature of the problem? Is it my starting technique, or something else?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlvZ...ature=youtu.be

BTW, I see that I have an exhaust leak and some minor fuel leaks that need work, so no need to mention those. I also have a new gas line, but couldn't use it today for another reason.

[Brentwood Bob]

Would suggest you replace one part at a time. Also, try to find some local talent/help to use as a resource. There should be some model a guys near enough to you to offer to help.
My experience with tillotsens is limited. I had trouble adjusting the carb. The tillotsen can distort over time and have air leaks from distorted casting.
Since we don't know anything about the car we should use baby steps in resurrecting it.
You may have intake manifold leaks from a bad gasket, or worse from a distorted intake manifold. You need to determine if the gas flow from the gas tank is adequate, and eliminate any leaks. First determine if the main gas valve under the gas tank completely shuts off the gas flow from the tank to the carb. you do not want to have gas leaking.
Always end your daily work with shutting off this main gas valve.
Did the car run before you rebuilt the carb? Why did you start with the carb rebuild?
Bob

[Brentwood Bob]

ken, you are sawing on the starter way to long. You probably have several issues. One is the dash adjustment is probably way off. Close it down, and then turn it 1/2 to 3/4 turn open. After the motor starts and warms up then the dash adjustment is mostly closed. Do not tighten down, just a very light touch. Second, the timing needs to be checked. Are the points worn and closed? When did the car last run. Get some fresh gas.
If you used Les Andrews manual to help with the rebuild check the initial settings again.

[darrylkmc]

Please, lay off the starter.

Only use the starter for 5 or 10 Seconds, then wait a few minutes.

If you are not getting fire, it not the fault of the starter.

Darryl in Fairbanks

[Tom Wesenberg]

Have you pulled the choke for a couple revolutions? Does gas run out? You'll need to remove the air filter for this check. It sounds like it lacks fuel.

[johnbuckley]

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90% of non starts are ignition related. Did you try starting with the advance retard in different positions to compensate for any inaccuracy of setting timing, or slightly altering the can in the distributor a notch or two? If you are sure ignition/timing are good and the fuel is not stale then I wonder if the float valve is stuck closed, or the fuel pipe is not permitting fuel to get into the carb .)
Things to check.
1) slacken off fuel inlet pipe at carb and ensure there is a good flow of fuel. Re-attach.
2) Slacken of the three screws holding the lower half of the carb and ensure that petrol pours out. re attatch- Make sure spilled fuel subsequently evaporates before blowing yourself up. ( best to do that outside).
3) If still no success, remove airfilter ( I would do that anyway) and squirt some fuel ( or even better easy start) into mouth of carb- if it still doesn't fire with that the problem is probably ignition related.
4) or even try removing a couple of sparkplugs and pour a thimble full of fuel into each cylinder, replace plug and and try again.
(PS I often find that Tillotsons need the choke road turning a full turn or one and a half turns to have them running correctly.)

[kcav8or]

Thanks. I suspected in the first starting attempt, before this video, that that was too long on the starter, but a friend who is more of a gearhead than I am encouraged me to run it longer. I should have gone with my gut. The timing and points have been checked, and if you have the infinite patience required to get to the end of the video, I changed the camera position so that you can see a slow drip of fuel from the carb. My friend checked the timing as well, so I think we can eliminate the coil, distributor and fuel systems as sources of the problem. Seems to me that would leave the carburetor and the driver. This is what I used as a starting procedure:

http://www.model-a.org/starting.html

[Mike]

To me it sounds like the ignition timing is to far retarded, try pulling the spark lever down 2 clicks.

Mike

[kcav8or]

Thanks, Mike. I did notice an improvement when I did just that. Maybe I need to re-check that timing myself.

[Tom Wesenberg]

It sounds just like newer cars in Minnesota that get wet fouled plugs from flooding the engine. Have you checked the plugs for wetness.

Recheck the timing. The rotor turns CCW and the points should just be starting to OPEN for #1 when the spark lever is full up and the timing pin drops into the dimple.

[kcav8or]

I haven't. I will next time I'm over there.

[johnbuckley]

If the timing is set up correctly then carb is not terribly important to get the engine to fire OK- - just a dab of fuel on the inlet manifold without any carb at all will often get a response.
Check plugs...If pugs wet ( ie petrol getting to them )....
If you haven't already done so try moving the advance retard lever up and down slowly when cranking. see if that helps.
Reset the cam in the distributor - shift it advance 2 notches, try again, moving the hand A/R lever as you crank.
If no no success shift it retarded a couple of notches and ditto....
It'll start sometime if you persevere, trust us.

[tbirdtbird]

as has been stated here often, like any antique car, As have a few peculiarities that MUST be dealt with, and if that is done it will be your most reliable car. If your gearhead friend talked you into grinding away at the starter then I suspect he is not familiar enough with old cars. You can do all these checks yourself if you are patient and take your time. There are multiple threads here on starting troubles. Mike V Florida has an excellent checklist, do a search. Time it per Marco's instructions. Gas MUST be fresh; today's polluted fuel decomposes within a couple months. There have to be a ton of Model A drivers in Kansas, find the closest club and someone will be happy to help you.
If you learn these things yourself, you will be rewarded. Also, if you are on tour or just taking a quick spin into town for ice cream, and something goes wrong, you will be able to diagnose and fix it yourself, while your gearhead buddy is back home wrenchin' on his '57 Chevy or banging around on a small block chevy motor, neither of which bear any resemblance at all to the knowledge you need for a Model A. Good luck, post often, there is lots of qualified help here. Search your topics first, undoubtedly the topic has already been covered.

[Patrick L.]

You're having a heck of a time with this monster. So, first things first.
When you remove the sparklers to check, do a quick compression check. Just a finger/hand will work well enough for this. Just feel for some compression. That'll also help dry a wet cylinder.
Squirt a little oil in each cylinder before putting the sparklers back in.
Remove the coil wire from the cap and position it about a 1/4" from a good ground.
Rotate engine until points are closed and slip a piece of paper between contacts.
Turn key on and check for 6v at point movable arm.
Remove paper and open/close points and check for good spark from coil wire.
Recheck and adjust timing.
Check intake manifold for possible vacuum leak.
Check for good fuel flow thru the carburetor. Removing the bottom drain plug on a Tillotson will work. You may want to remove fuel line to make sure line only protrudes beyond ferrule about 1/16". GAV setting on a Tilly should be about 1 turn out from very lightly seated position for cold starting.
If all these are OK or fixed, it should start without too much choke[ 2 revolutions]

[1931 flamingo]

I would start by installing a new set of plugs(if you haven't already), fresh gas and re-ck the timing.
Paul in CT

[kcav8or]

It has fresh gas, and I think the plugs are, too. I'll go through the full timing setting procedure that's in my maintenance book. It could be close, but not close enough.

[Bob C]

Looking at the video it looks like you had it choked for 14 seconds which I
think is way to long so it was probably flooded, I would also remove the air filter.

Bob

[kcav8or]

After some of the first comments, I agree about the choking. I'm used to some other motors that required a lot of choking when cold. They would die if you let off the choke before it was warmed up. Will have to unlearn that habit.

[Muttley]

Did you insert the fuel line into the carb all the way until it bottomed out? I know it seems like that is the way to do it but if you do put it in all the way it blocks fuel to the carb and the car will not stay running. I had the same problem a couple of months back when I replaced all the parts from the tank to the carb on my Dad's '31.

[Steve Wastler]

It wouldn't be the first time of driver error, but I think it is timing. Before watching the video, i thought they were being hard on the starter usage, after watching, i too believe your buddy doesnt understand old vehicles. You have quite a quick kickback of the bendix after changing the coil. What timing proceedure are you using?