Correct replacement for Fram C181-A?

[Ziggster]

I ordered a new Fram oil filter from RockAuto for the factory remote oil filter housing. They listed C4 and C4P. I ordered the C4P and tried it out this morning and it seemed a little short as there seemed to be no compression of the spring when I tightened down the top. I pulled out the original filter (C181-A), and the body is longer, but overall length is similar to the C4P if you include the rubber grommets. Can someone confirm if this is the correct replacement filter? I know even the Fram site lists them as a replacenent, but even the cover gasket is too large.

[ford38v8]

C4P is correct. There are two different size cover gaskets included in the box. I don't know what the odd gasket fits. Make sure you use a small gasket under the nut on top or you'll have a big mess to clean up!

[51woodie]

I have used C4 and C4P in my 59AB filter housing. I'm not sure what the difference is between the two, but one must be better than the other, because it has more letters. Actually, I believe the difference is in the filter media. Some specs below.

The description of the C4 is as follows:
Part Number C4
Product Type By-Pass Lube Cartridge
Product Height 4.88"
Product I.D. .53"
Product O.D. 4.2"

And the C4P is listed as follows:
Part Number C4P
Product Type By-Pass Lube Cartridge
Gasket I.D. 4.34"
Gasket O.D. 4.73"
Gasket Thickness .08"
Gasket Usage Gasket
Product Height 4.88"
Product I.D. .55"
Product O.D. 4.33"

[Jeff/Illinois]

Ford Motorcraft lists a cartridge filter for these as FL-20.

I'm not a fan of Fram. Bought one of their air filters for a 2016 Ford Escape we had and it didn't fit very well. In fact it was a REAL bad fit. I always use Motorcraft but needed a filter in a hurry and got the Fram at Wally World.

Next time I was at the Ford dealership I bought a Motorcraft and tossed that dumb Fram in the trash.

[Ziggster]

Ok. Good to know. Here is a pic of the two gaskets. Old orig on top. For some reason, pics I took from my phone won't upload.

[51woodie]

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Regarding the gasket size, the ones that come with the Fram C4P that I have used, fit nicely into the cover, and fit tight enough that I can turn the cover upright to install and the gasket stays in place.

[Ziggster]

Are there differences in the filter housing?

[51woodie]

Ziggster. I don't know what car you have, so I can't compare to what I have on my '46 Coupe. Send me a PM with your contact info if you want more information.

[Bob C]

Is this for that industrial engine you posted about before?
How about a picture of the filter housing.

[cas3]

here's a list i copied some where.. i forget. i usually buy filters by the case on ebay for cheap. hastings LF101...baldwin P41...carquest 85006...donaldson P550170...fleetguard LF510...fram F4p...wix PC1f or PC25...napa 1006

[Ziggster]

Here's a pic. I had another which was exactly the same, but I gave it away.

[JSeery]

The canister doesn't look original to me, are you sure it's not a repo unit?

[cas3]

i agree, not ford

[Ziggster]

Interesting. That hsg had the same colour paint as that on the engine, and I suspect it was mounted to the engine. The other hsg as I said was identical, but it had a nut to secure the top vs the T-handle I have on this one. Regardless if it was an original Ford or not, the same filters should fit, and I 'm guessing the same gasket. I'll call RockAuto on Monday to see what they have to say.

[TJ]

Originally Posted by Ziggster

Interesting. That hsg had the same colour paint as that on the engine, and I suspect it was mounted to the engine. The other hsg as I said was identical, but it had a nut to secure the top vs the T-handle I have on this one. Regardless if it was an original Ford or not, the same filters should fit, and I 'm guessing the same gasket. I'll call RockAuto on Monday to see what they have to say.

Different manufacturers sometimes use different size cartridge filters.

[JSeery]

I'm not sure what Rock Auto would know about the filter, they just stock and sell the parts.

[RalphG]

I've used C4 Fram on the flatheads. Also the name Kralinator K-55 sticks in my mind. Possibly was on the 39 Ford and that filter case had the t handle on top too.

[RalphG]

Another thing to consider is that some of the trucks had a longer oil filter. The 49 Mercury M68 has a filter case 8 inches long. Car filter cases were 5 1/2 inches on both my 52 Merc sedan and 39 Deluxe with the Kralinator add on filter.

[flatford8]

I use NAPA 1006 on a ‘50 and those come with two gaskets also.......Mark

[oldford2]

Just changed the oil and filter last week in my 46 59ab with original oil canister. Carquest 85006 (advanced Auto)
$12
John

[JSeery]

If it was me, think I would take the filter I had to a parts store and compare the length to some other filters from different sources. That would show you any differences.

[Ziggster]

Thanks. I’ll drop by a couple of parts stores tomorrow to see what they might have.

[Ross F-1]

Canadian engines used some different filters. Attached is a pic of a taller Canadian bypass filter, but I don't know what element it needs. Looks like OP's. (It's not the full-flow Canadian)

[RalphG]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

Canadian engines used some different filters. Attached is a pic of a taller Canadian bypass filter, but I don't know what element it needs. Looks like OP's. (It's not the full-flow Canadian)

That filter in your photo is like the one I have on the 49 Mercury truck. Taller than the cars.

[Ziggster]

No customer service at RockAuto, so explained what the issue was (on-line return), and received a store credit. Interestingly, the C4P filter is no longer listed at all, and there is no stk available of the C4 filter. I checked multiple years (45-52) and various models, and all list the C4 amongst others. For example, they list the Wix 51006 (Napa 1006), and a search of that shows this info for the gasket.

[Ziggster]

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Some pics of my filter housing length.

[Ziggster]

Inside dia of top cover.

[Ziggster]

My gasket diameter.

[Ziggster]

So clearly, my gasket is about 1/8" smaller in dia than either that provided with the Fram C4P filter or the Wix 51006 filter. In some of the filter pics from RockAuto, I could see that some filters include multiple gaskets. I wonder if it is is for this reason. My filter housing cannot be that unique.

[Will D]

In Canada you should be able to get the C4 and C4P at Lordco. Bumper to bumper/Gilbert supply carry the WIX51006. The C4 has a metal top and bottom with full paper center section. The WIX is full metal case.

I was using the C4 but trying the WIX51006 today.

[tubman]

I get my oil filters from NAPA. I just ask for one for a Ford tractor and I get the right one. (They know a lot about tractors, but not old cars.) I have never gotten one that didn't come with two gaskets of different sizes.

[cas3]

the only thing that matters is that it fits the tube in the center. after that you can shim it to length with a short piece of pipe or big spring like an old valve spring for example

[Bob C]

Here is a picture of the NAPA 1006 (Wix 51006) filter.
Comes with two gaskets, 4.3" and 4.736". The filter
is 5" tall.

[Ziggster]

Yep, it fits the center tube snugly, and may require a small shim, but not sure how much pressure there should be on the spring because as is, there is no pressure when the top cover is tightened all the way down. Old gasket should be fine, but I will still look for the correct filter/gasket tomorrow when I head back into town. Never thought finding the correct filter would be this much work. Seems like same issue looking for the correct wide belt. Oy vey....

[Ziggster]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Here is a picture of the NAPA 1006 (Wix 51006) filter.
Comes with two gaskets, 4.3" and 4.736". The filter
is 5" tall.

Great. I'll order one tomorrow from either Napa or CarQuest.

[Aarongriffey]

In the first place, you NEVER use a Fram oil filter. Never!
They are made cheaply, do not filter the oil good enough.
Google Fram oil filters on the internet. There are sites that show how poorly made they are.
I have seen signs in dealer service departments warning customers to not use Fram oil filters in their cars.

[Ziggster]

Ordered the Wix filter (P/N 51006). Will use it and resuse the original gasket if needed.

[Ziggster]

Picked up a new filter from CarQuest, was expecting a Wix, but got their brand (P/N 85006). It's made in the USA as is the Fram, but it has an all aluminum pre-filter screen vs the paper screen on the Fram. It also has raised embossed sections on each each of the filter which I think is better, especially at the top since the spring should have something solid to rest upon vs the rubber grommet on the Fram filter. Also, the actual body is slightly longer (4 13/16" vs 4.5"). It came with two gaskets, both being larger than mine, but surprisingly, the smaller of the two actually fit nicely into my top cover. Only thing I'm rather concerned about with the CarQuest filter are the open seems where the two ends pieces meet the pre-filter screen. I'm guessing that the ends of the filter element are sealed with some type of glue/sealant and do not rely on the mechanical joint for sealing.

[Ziggster]

Embossed section.

[Ziggster]

Gaskets. The orig on the bottom.

[Ziggster]

CarQuest gasket inside top cover.

[Ziggster]

Length comparison.

[Ziggster]

The slightly extra length of the CarQuest filter also resulted in greater spring pressure when tightening down the top cover. Additionally, the center grommets were much tighter than those used on the Fram. Based on all of the above, I would say, that yes, the Fram filter is somewhat inferior. Obviously, I can't speak to its performance in terms of filtering.

[Ziggster]

Forgot to include pic of the gaps on the end caps. I'll close this chapter of my flathead build adventure, and will now look at the V-belt "issue". Lol!

[Automotive Stud]

For what it's worth, I have a '55 Cadillac that takes the same filter. I usually use Wix 51006, the larger gasket fits the Cad housing where the smaller gasket fits my Ford flathead housing.