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Old 12-14-2018, 09:46 PM   #1
Henry Floored
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Default What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

So this is a question that has as many different answers as there are people willing to supply an opinion on the subject I would venture to say.

I admit the inspiration for this thread was provided by an opinion voiced in another thread that questioned why people even bother trying to build horsepower in a Flathead at all.

This got me to thinking of course. One only needs to drive a new Mustang or Camaro to experience two or three times the horsepower that a good Flathead will ever make. You can buy, lease or rent this horsepower with nothing more than a credit check a valid driver’s license and a place to let the horses run free.

Why do we struggle to make 150 horsepower? What sort of attraction does the Flathead engine and the vehicles it came in have for us.

If we do have a strong running Flathead that say put out an honest 150hp is that the exact same amount of performance that another more modern engine like a garden variety 302 Ford or 305 Chevy putting out roughly the same power? To my butt a decent Flathead backed up by an adequate transmission can give darn right impressive performance.

Thinking about it a little further I could only come up with 2 or 3 side valve engines that were even considered to be high performers. Of course the Flathead Ford and it’s little brother the V8-60 were the most popular and prevalent in that category but we cannot forget about the Hudson Hornet 308 or the Ford 4-bangers as well. Last but not least Cord had a pretty powerful but exclusive and expensive V8 with the Lycoming engine in both the N/A and supercharged form.

In my opinion the Flathead Ford V8 wasn’t just a great engine it was the cars and trucks they were placed them that together formed the “whole package”.

The power dense V8 was short in length, low in height and narrow in width. This kept the engine mostly behind the spindle centerline and low in the chassis which provided better handling and braking by virtue of great vehicle balance.

Most inline 6 and 8 powered cars did not possess the agility of the little Ford’s. This is huge because when fellas went looking for more speed and handling the Ford’s were an easy choice. The quest for more power is precisely what created hot rodding and the aftermarket speed merchants.

There’s more though. It’s no accident that Ford’s were top choice. How about the great oiling system and the insert rods and mains (early on) supporting a reasonably lightweight rotating assembly.

Then there’s the superior fuel distribution via the paired intake ports located as closely to the fuel/air source as possible. This all breathing through a dual plane intake designed to separate intake pulses in such a way as to not rob air charge from one port to another.

How about the pretty good to excellent ignition system? (depending on year)

Then there’s the all that meat there to help increase displacement and even a factory stroker crank to go even farther.



No in reality your wife’s modern minivan can give most hot rods of the 30’s and 40’s a run for their money. For that matter a basic Mustang with the Ecoboost 4 cylinder could dust 90% of the 60’s muscle cars.

We don’t soup up Flathead Ford’s because we’re going for the fastest ride on the road today. We’re souping them up because we want to feel what it was like in simpler and dare I say better times.

Lastly I know plenty of guys think of the Olds, Caddy or sbc as the second coming but I actually think the OHV’s killed the old Ford’s and hot rodding in a way. That’s when we started to see butchered cars with split wishbones and hacked firewalls and frames. Out went the torque tubes and banjo rears and in came the chunky clunky GM parts. Lost was the exquisite simplicity and balanced design of so many beautiful Ford’s.

I’ve seen Porsche’s with sbc’s in them that are probably faster down a straightaway but I never would own one because that which makes a Porsche a Porsche would be all gone.

The comments above are just the ramblings of an old codger, but if you too have feelings one way or the other it be great to hear them.
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Old 12-14-2018, 10:03 PM   #2
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

One of my old club members car. Tore through 3 stock transmissions, got pretty good at rebuilding them. Fun car. guess you get it or you dont.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFG-EnizZJs




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Old 12-14-2018, 10:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Floored View Post
So this is a question that has as many different answers as there are people willing to supply an opinion on the subject I would venture to say.

I admit the inspiration for this thread was provided by an opinion voiced in another thread that questioned why people even bother trying to build horsepower in a Flathead at all.

This got me to thinking of course. One only needs to drive a new Mustang or Camaro to experience two or three times the horsepower that a good Flathead will ever make. You can buy, lease or rent this horsepower with nothing more than a credit check a valid driver’s license and a place to let the horses run free.

Why do we struggle to make 150 horsepower? What sort of attraction does the Flathead engine and the vehicles it came in have for us.

If we do have a strong running Flathead that say put out an honest 150hp is that the exact same amount of performance that another more modern engine like a garden variety 302 Ford or 305 Chevy putting out roughly the same power? To my butt a decent Flathead backed up by an adequate transmission can give darn right impressive performance.

Thinking about it a little further I could only come up with 2 or 3 side valve engines that were even considered to be high performers. Of course the Flathead Ford and it’s little brother the V8-60 were the most popular and prevalent in that category but we cannot forget about the Hudson Hornet 308 or the Ford 4-bangers as well. Last but not least Cord had a pretty powerful but exclusive and expensive V8 with the Lycoming engine in both the N/A and supercharged form.

In my opinion the Flathead Ford V8 wasn’t just a great engine it was the cars and trucks they were placed them that together formed the “whole package”.

The power dense V8 was short in length, low in height and narrow in width. This kept the engine mostly behind the spindle centerline and low in the chassis which provided better handling and braking by virtue of great vehicle balance.

Most inline 6 and 8 powered cars did not possess the agility of the little Ford’s. This is huge because when fellas went looking for more speed and handling the Ford’s were an easy choice. The quest for more power is precisely what created hot rodding and the aftermarket speed merchants.

There’s more though. It’s no accident that Ford’s were top choice. How about the great oiling system and the insert rods and mains (early on) supporting a reasonably lightweight rotating assembly.

Then there’s the superior fuel distribution via the paired intake ports located as closely to the fuel/air source as possible. This all breathing through a dual plane intake designed to separate intake pulses in such a way as to not rob air charge from one port to another.

How about the pretty good to excellent ignition system? (depending on year)

Then there’s the all that meat there to help increase displacement and even a factory stroker crank to go even farther.



No in reality your wife’s modern minivan can give most hot rods of the 30’s and 40’s a run for their money. For that matter a basic Mustang with the Ecoboost 4 cylinder could dust 90% of the 60’s muscle cars.

We don’t soup up Flathead Ford’s because we’re going for the fastest ride on the road today. We’re souping them up because we want to feel what it was like in simpler and dare I say better times.

Lastly I know plenty of guys think of the Olds, Caddy or sbc as the second coming but I actually think the OHV’s killed the old Ford’s and hot rodding in a way. That’s when we started to see butchered cars with split wishbones and hacked firewalls and frames. Out went the torque tubes and banjo rears and in came the chunky clunky GM parts. Lost was the exquisite simplicity and balanced design of so many beautiful Ford’s.

I’ve seen Porsche’s with sbc’s in them that are probably faster down a straightaway but I never would own one because that which makes a Porsche a Porsche would be all gone.

The comments above are just the ramblings of an old codger, but if you too have feelings one way or the other it be great to hear them.
I have two reasons: 1) Anybody can get a hold of big horsepower as you already explained. But, a Ford. V8 Flathead is a classic gem. I'm not interested in power, I want to be able yo cruse the highway in something that is apart from mainstream. 2) Mine was Grandad's...

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Old 12-14-2018, 10:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker View Post
One of my old club members car. Tore through 3 stock transmissions, got pretty good at rebuilding them. Fun car. guess you get it or you dont.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFG-EnizZJs




.
Great car!
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Old 12-14-2018, 10:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

Quote:
Originally Posted by msstring View Post
I have two reasons: 1) Anybody can get a hold of big horsepower as you already explained. But, a Ford. V8 Flathead is a classic gem. I'm not interested in power, I want to be able yo cruse the highway in something that is apart from mainstream. 2) Mine was Grandad's...

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When I lived in a metro area, I found that people race to the next stop light (real hurry to get nowhere). My stockers just kept a even keel for me. People had to pass, people were irritated for them three block. But I kept going just fine, most of the time passing them at the light.


I understanding if you are on the 10 or 405 in cal. Just a car not meant for that. Sad but true. Which is fine. Maybe great for the 101 on a Sunday.


I'm still a stock guy.

Last edited by Tinker; 12-14-2018 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 12-14-2018, 10:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Floored View Post
Great car!
Thanks, we all helped each other. Fun car, it'd smoke a mini van no problem!

When we first cranked it over. Thanks bubba.
I was the only "stock" guy in club for the most part. We did cars built on the "idea" 40's and pre 40's only.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shO4O2nc721Q


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Last edited by Tinker; 12-18-2018 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 12-15-2018, 12:24 AM   #7
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

After a lifetime of exposure to flathead Fords it has become an addiction for me. Nostalgia maybe? Not saying I'd want the Merc as a daily driver but it just gives me a good feeling knowing I can fire up the old flathead and go for a drive any time. No doubt others question such behaviour but I'm ok with that.
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Old 12-15-2018, 12:39 AM   #8
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

Only a flathead Ford sounds like it and that throb matches my heart.
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Old 12-15-2018, 12:53 AM   #9
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

Well. I like my flatty in no particular order because:

1) It's cool looking especially with the acorn caps I have on its studs.
2) It's cool sounding.... No other engine sounds like one.
3) It's the original "hot rod" engine.....nostalgia
4) Because it's what belongs in my Ford.
5) The whole package makes me feel like "the king" when I drive it.
6) I'm a sentimental old bastard and live in the past a bit.

I really don't care a "rats arse" about its horse power rating.

That said I would rather drive my 2001 P11 Nissan Primera (G20) as an "everyday driver" though.

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Old 12-15-2018, 01:02 AM   #10
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

Do we really need reasons to justify and/or defend our fondness for flatheads and other old machinery? Just enjoy the hobby! If other people don't "get it", well, they just don't "get it"! Too bad for them!
I feel this way: "All progress is change, BUT not all change is progress!" Something has been lost along the way to what cars are today.
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Old 12-15-2018, 01:03 AM   #11
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...

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Old 12-15-2018, 04:33 AM   #12
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

What's great about the Flathead?? Who the heck knows?? Back in the day, the Flathead got people around town without fanfare at a reasonable cost. If that constitutes greatness, alrighty then! Nowadays, some people have good memories of a time gone by and these cars played a part and makes their lives richer now.
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Old 12-15-2018, 06:17 AM   #13
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

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What's great about the Flathead?? Who the heck knows?? Back in the day, the Flathead got people around town without fanfare at a reasonable cost. If that constitutes greatness, alrighty then! Nowadays, some people have good memories of a time gone by and these cars played a part and makes their lives richer now.
You know you’re right. As a kid we had a camp in the Adirondack mountains. My dad and uncle picked up a ‘61 Ford Workmaster 601 with a front end loader. Then we came across a ‘52 F6 dump truck with a 239” Flatty. We used these to haul gravel in order to maintain the dirt road going into camp.

Imagine being 15 and getting to play with a tractor and loading a dump truck, dumping dirt and then spreading it out. Man thinking back that was fun!

There was a pretty good Hill in our road and that little Flatty just walked right up even with a good load on (10 yards if I remember correctly).

To me it was the little engine that could. I was more amazed at things like that than a few years later when I got my license and started looking at all the muscle cars I couldn’t afford.

This Flathead addiction really started in my formative years as I think about it.
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Old 12-15-2018, 06:59 AM   #14
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

I love working on something that I have to actually think about. I can't plug a computer in to tell me which gas cap gasket to replace. There's usually enough space to get my large aching old hands in. And when they are set up right and running they just sound "bitchin".
Who cares if that Honda beat ya to the next stop light? Just open the hood in a parking lot and see how many folks come take a look at the old classic.
How many waves and thumbs up have you gotten from folks in your PT Cruiser??? Chap
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Old 12-15-2018, 08:11 AM   #15
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

The flathead reminds me of the 1940s when this country was at its greatest. It’s a time machine. I love that generation of people, especially the hot rodders. It was a privilege to be around them. They were a different breed of Americans. The reason this country is going down the crapper is we don’t have that generation anymore. Even though I’m a lot younger many those WWII Hot rodders they were some of my best friends.

Many of our dad’s and grandfathers were “Ford” men and were just carrying on the tradition. Every Father’s Day we would go to the Roadster Show to look at the flatheads. Before I knew it, I’m twelve year’s old and pointing out ’32 Ford parts at swap meets. My brain was still being wired up, the neurons were making connections. I believe there is a part of the brain that is set aside for that one thing that’s going to be your passion in life. Somewhere around fourteen year’s old that last section is wired up. Mine did it watching American Graffiti. I wanted a ’32 Ford worse than anything but it had to be flathead powered. That was strange for a kid in 1975, none of my friends could understand why I would want one. It’s those "finned heads". I don’t care how much horsepower a Chevy makes, its not compare to those "finned heads". Its is the neatest looking engine ever designed.

I’ll tell you a little story. My dad bought a tired red ’32 roadster for $225.00 he found in a backyard in San Bernardino in 1956 while out on a walk. The story was the roadster had been run at the San Diego drags. It had a full race flathead, Zephyr gears and an Auburn clutch. It had been parked and neglected and would barely run. He took it to John Bradley who held the National record for the fastest flathead dragster. Bradley tuned it up and we got done it was a real screamer.

There was a girl my dad was interested in. So, he drove around and around her block trying to impress her with the roadster, and it worked. That girl turned out to be mom. She said the only reason she went out with my dad was to get a ride in that ’32 roadster. I literally would not exist had it not been for a flathead Ford.

Would I want to drive a flathead every day, absolutely not. But my daily drivers are like appliances to me. I have no more attachment to my truck than I do my refrigerator or washing machine. But an old Ford, it makes me happy. I can be driving down the road and see somebody out cruising in their old Ford and it brings a smile to my face.

I drove my neighbor’s Model T which might be slightly better than a horse? You need to drive a Model T once in your life to understand how great the flathead V8 was.
To think that just five-years later you could buy a ’32 Ford V8 for about the same price that Model T. That had to be something special. I know had I been alive back then I would have bought one. It just amazes me what Henry Ford did. For me the flathead is all about the history.

Here are some photos for you. This was my good friend Jack Calori. I sure miss him. He had the world's fastest flathead roadster in 1947, and it was driven on the street. SCTA Lancers Club (World's Fastest Roadster Club 1947). This is my swearing in ceremony as the last official member.

That color photo is the first color photo of hot rod printed in a magazine. If you look there is a guy kneeling down taking a picture. Jack had asked his friend to take picture of him leaving the starting line. I have that picture too.

This is why I love flatheads, how could I not. Restored , hot rodded there is so much history that surrounds them. Enjoy the photos. I have hundreds of them from the 1930s and 1940s that I have copied from dry lakes racers. Would the flathead be as popular today if there had not been those pioneering hot rodders, I doubt it.


Jack Calori, October 1947, California Timing News.jpg
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Lancers #2.jpg (178.9 KB, 88 views)
File Type: jpg Lancers.jpg (69.5 KB, 73 views)
File Type: jpg Calori #45 1200 dpi copy - Copy.jpg (99.5 KB, 77 views)
File Type: jpg Jack Calori 3-24-2001 - Copy.jpg (31.1 KB, 69 views)
File Type: jpg Collier's #1 - Copy.jpg (189.2 KB, 74 views)
File Type: jpg Collier's 2 - Copy.jpg (92.5 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg Gus Maanum #01 copy - Copy.jpg (195.8 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg Calori #81 e-mail.jpg (62.6 KB, 77 views)
File Type: jpg Frank Lurry #175 Color 1200 DPI copy - Copy.jpg (149.4 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg Lancers Plaque - Copy.jpg (211.2 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg Jack Calori Cartoon - Copy.jpg (72.4 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg Jack Calori ,Veda Orr, Hot Rod Pictorial copy - Copy.jpg (160.8 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg Jack Calori Collection #5 - Copy.jpg (33.7 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg Jack Calori Collection #23 - Copy.jpg (120.5 KB, 61 views)

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Old 12-15-2018, 08:14 AM   #16
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

I like going to car shows. Enjoy looking at all the different cars. Cars with great paint, blowers, nitro, rat rods, etc. I also enjoy when someone comes over to my 39 and smiles when they look inside engine bay and says “cool a flathead”. Something about a car 80 year old car with same type (flathead) engine it had off the assembly line and tweaking it (dual carbs. Dual exhaust) the way they did back in the day.

You may see 1 or 2 flatheads at of 100-200 cars at a show.

I’m not into speed. My enjoyment is not only at the shows but the drive to the show.
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Old 12-15-2018, 09:09 AM   #17
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

I like them for the very reason that so many folks discount them as obsolete and in some way beneath their status. Most of these folks don't understand them. This knowledge is of historic value to me so it makes me feel superior to those that don't understand them even though I keep that to myself. Knowledge is power. If you forget history, you keep making the same old mistakes. Nostalgia is a good thing too. I love to remember those days gone past.
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Old 12-15-2018, 09:21 AM   #18
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

Anyone can rent or buy horsepower but not everyone can drive a flatty and hear it run. I have thought about using my iPhone and listen to radio apps when driving my old fords but i rather enjoy the tunes I hear from my car! #musictomyears


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Old 12-15-2018, 10:17 AM   #19
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

Amen to all the above! Nothing looks or sounds like a flathead.
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Old 12-15-2018, 10:25 AM   #20
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Default Re: What’s so great about the Flathead Ford V8?

I hear some talk about flatheads not being good for daily drivers. When I'm in Minnesota during the summer months, I drive my '51 club coupe every chance I can get, except for days with really bad weather. The only reason I don't drive it then is because I hate cleaning it up after driving through that crap and a general aversion to getting any old car real wet. I find the car more comfortable than most modern cars, with adequate headroom, ease of entry and exit, and that huge trunk. I have a rebuilt Mercury engine with a set of carefully prepared Edmunds heads, a 2G, and a Mallory dual point. This set up gives me all the power I need. Sure, it won't win many drag races against modern cars, but it does step out nicely and has enough power to get out of the way if I need it. I have no trouble keeping with the crowd on the interstates up to about 75 mph, and have enough power to get around the slowpokes on the two lane country roads. I get around 15 mpg around town and 19 on the highway. I drive it early and late into the season, and find the heater defroster fully adequate, even in freezing temperatures since I fixed the blower switch. I think it helps that I live out in the sticks and don't have to do a lot of parallel parking and fighting rush hour traffic.

I think this car works as a daily driver because it is among the last of these cars, by which time the had become fairly refined. About 20 years ago, I had a "done" '36 3-window with a 276" 8BA. 39 box, and hydraulics that was a pretty nice car. I drove it as much as I could, but not nearly as much as this '51. The problems with that car were an extremely cramped interior, and too much power for the drive train. I sold it after replacing the second axle in the banjo to a guy who "had to have it". You know, since I have the '51, I don't miss it at all.
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