Headlamp socket question

[mstover]

I have the old-style socket headlamp connectors. I disconnected the headlamps when removing my radiator and now that I'm reconnecting the headlamps, I'm sure that I'm getting a short from inside the socket. (The wires immediately get hot.) The receptacle inside the headlamp shell has three connectors on springs but there's no spacer. Is there supposed to be? There nothing to keep these connectors from touching each other. I'm afraid I lost something when I disconnected. If anyone has pictures, I'd be most appreciative!

Thanks,
Mike

[CarlG]

It sounds like you are missing these: Yours could have 3 wires, picture only shows 2.

Headlight Plugs

• These go where the wires enter the base of the headlight to keep the wires separated. The 1928 style is for the early headlights that had the smaller hole. The early ones come with the brass inserts and brass screws
  

[mstover]

Thanks. I have these...the bullet connectors fit into this. My question is about the other side of the connection...the female fitting. Any pictures of the socket inside the headlamp?

[CarlG]

Don't know if this will help or not, but this (and the previous picture) came from the Snyder's catalog.

Having said that, I eliminated the connector at the base of the headlight bucket alltogether and hardwired everything thru to eliminate this pesky tempromental pos.

[sethkestenbaum]

Mike,

The three-plunger system is nortorious for having shorts. I am told that "IF you have an original set of wires in the headlights and wiring harness, and IF you use the spacers, and IF the planets align, then the system works well." Mine have never worked well.

Having "futzed" with mine for hours upon hours upon hours (often on the side of the road and in the dark), I was able to eliminate the shorts by putting some electric tape INSIDE the conduit connection so that the plungers can't touch the conduit and ground out there. While I was going to be a purist on my restoration (and know this comment will upset some of the purists on FB), I've decided that the next time I have any problem with the lights I am going to snip the "original" and "original style" connections and change them to a set of modern connections that I can click together/apart without worrying about them shorting out or starting a fire. I will then hide these connections within the headlight shell.

Here is a link to a blog in which I talk about the horrid horrid system. http://oldcarroadtrip.wordpress.com/...-and-screeech/

I will likely document how I do the change... but that will wait until I get around to doing it. I will publically state that I really wanted the original system to work. I just don't trust any "simple connection" that causes so many shorts for so many people.

Seth

[columbiA]

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Many years ago I done away with the connectors on the llights.I run the wires from light sockets to push-in connectors behind the rad shell. I also solder a ground wire to socket & run it to a clean spot on frame under the front hood hook. Also solder all wire terminals.Never had light shorts in the past 50 years or so.

[Brobrian]

Wow, another one of those, "You have the problem too?" posts. I've gone black, winked out, blinked out, shorted out. I blame the cheap repro replacements for most of it, but I do wonder what part of this design seemed like a good idea to Henry. Currently I'm on a several month run of reliability with both cars. Hope you find success too.

[mstover]

I'm beginning to think you guys are right. I want it to be original but I also want it to be safe and safe trumps original.
Mike

[mstover]

Seth
Love your blog and you've inspired me. I need a goal like a long road trip! Well done.
Mike

[sethkestenbaum]

Thanks Mike. I am in the process of planning the next trip (a short 3 day to Philly). It is going to be weather dependant, certain repair dependant, and is tentatively scheduled for the weekend of the August 18th. I will likely document some of the work I am doing on the car before the trip... but may leave some of it for the trip itself (scheduled work with one of the shops/clubs).

I do want to get the collar onto the water pump so it don't have play, change the fan blade to a new one that will be safer, and deal with some clogged grease channels/zerks. I may also do the headlights.... but don't want to play with them while they are working.

Seth

[Brobrian]

Funny, (and this seems to happen a lot). After reading this thread, I experienced this very problem. I just winked out last night. First time in months. Was putting along and the passenger-side light winked out. It was just that crappy aftermarket collar. When I got home I popped it back in quickly.
I've decided there is a connection between reading about something and experiencing it, so I'm staying away from threads related to major problems, and expensive stuff. Now, hows that for a Model A fix?

[Kurt in NJ]

I read about these problems with headlight connecters ---the common problem is "repro", it is easy to see why when originals and repro are next to each other, the original sockets rewired with the next size up aircraft wire have worked without trouble ---this is not a problem with Henerys design, but a problem with low quality repro parts ---even with the hotter burning quartz halogen bulbs I havn't had any connection problems with the original system

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Don't know if this will help or not, but this (and the previous picture) came from the Snyder's catalog.

Having said that, I eliminated the connector at the base of the headlight bucket alltogether and hardwired everything thru to eliminate this pesky tempromental pos.

Hate to say I am a "Me too" guy but I am having the same problems of trying to get my headlights re-installed. I think everything I have is re pro-shell, connectors, etc. So needless to say, I am having a h#$% of a time to try to get them reconnected.

My 29 coupe is going to be a driver. So doing it "original" is not needed. So my question is how did you guys rewire the light connections so that in the future you can take off the headlights having a connector of some kind where the conduit connects to the shell?

Would like some ideas on how to go about doing a job that still looks good, be able to take off the conduit connectors and take the headlights off without having to cut wires.

Thanks

[1crosscut]

Originally Posted by columbiA

Many years ago I done away with the connectors on the llights.I run the wires from light sockets to push-in connectors behind the rad shell. I also solder a ground wire to socket & run it to a clean spot on frame under the front hood hook. Also solder all wire terminals.Never had light shorts in the past 50 years or so.

I just wired my head lights exactly the same way as columbiA and I'm sure that by using this method and using the push in connectors my lights will work every time that I need them. I'm keeping my truck looking as original as possible but unless someone is really looking hard most will never see the connecors tucked in behind the radiator shell.

Fred K-OR if you wire the connectors from the head lights just inside the radiator shell where the conduits enter you can disconnect them there when removing the head light bar an not even have to open up the head light buckets.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by 1crosscut

I just wired my head lights exactly the same way as columbiA and I'm sure that by using this method and using the push in connectors my lights will work every time that I need them. I'm keeping my truck looking as original as possible but unless someone is really looking hard most will never see the connecors tucked in behind the radiator shell.

Fred K-OR if you wire the connectors from the head lights just inside the radiator shell where the conduits enter you can disconnect them there when removing the head light bar an not even have to open up the head light buckets.

That's what I did with mine.

[eystein]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

I read about these problems with headlight connecters ---the common problem is "repro", it is easy to see why when originals and repro are next to each other, the original sockets rewired with the next size up aircraft wire have worked without trouble ---this is not a problem with Henerys design, but a problem with low quality repro parts ---even with the hotter burning quartz halogen bulbs I havn't had any connection problems with the original system

Kurt,

I was thinking it could be what you are saying. The problem is that many cars have had the original wiring ripped out or "repaired" by previous restorers or tinkerers, so that one ( myself included) does not know what it should really look like.

I would just love it if anyone who have been looking into this seriously could post some pictures and explanations on where the common repro parts (brattons snyders) differ from the originals and tips on any sources for original-like hardware and how to correct the repro parts

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by 1crosscut

I just wired my head lights exactly the same way as columbiA and I'm sure that by using this method and using the push in connectors my lights will work every time that I need them. I'm keeping my truck looking as original as possible but unless someone is really looking hard most will never see the connectors tucked in behind the radiator shell.

Fred K-OR if you wire the connectors from the head lights just inside the radiator shell where the conduits enter you can disconnect them there when removing the head light bar an not even have to open up the head light buckets.

1crosscut, this sounds good. But I have one more question. How does a person keep the conduit cap from coming off the connector socket? I assume the springs on the end of the wires are gone which would keep the cap in place. Guess I could solder them on or us some JB Weld to hold them. Thanks for the ideas.

[CarlG]

The vendors have a "dummy" socket that is used on the inside of the bucket.

From Snyder's catalog:
When putting sealed beam bulbs or the quartz adapter kit in Model A buckets, you will need these. These press in the old hole where the original socket stuck out to fasten the headlight conduit to. U.S.A

[Fred K-OR]

Thanks CarlG.

[1crosscut]

Fred, You can use the dummies or if you already have the repo connectors that connect to the conduits you can remove the spring loaded connectors leaving a couple of nice holes for the new wires to go through. For the extra ground wire(s) I drilled additional holes for them through the connector insulation. I ran a ground wire from one head light to the other head light and then to ground on the frame from that one. Clear as mud I'm sure.
Dave