Modifying Butch's SBF to 54-58 Ford Engine Mounts

[Brushwolf]

I am trying to install a 1970 351c with 400M exhaust manifolds in a 1957 chassis. First I installed Butch's SBF mounts to see how it worked. Engine sits far too high. Probably 4 inches between pan and crossmember.

Then I tried a pair of the 63-64 Galaxie repro mounts. That made it sit too low and further forward than I liked. Manifolds sat on the frame mounts and stock oil pan sat on the crossmember. Firewall clearance was also more than I prefer (cuz radiator to water pump front clearance).

Another hobbiest install used 3/4" spacers between the Galaxie mount and the motor but with 351c smaller exhaust manifolds. This still might work with my 400 manifolds (larger), but I am skeptical of the rubber quality in those repro import mounts and they would rest only on the center section of the vertically inclined narrower 57 frame mounts which I suspect would aggravate that propensity to degradation cuz both sides overhang the frame mount.

So, if all else fails I will try shimming the Galaxie mounts, perhaps with a plate running longitudinally between the car frame mounts and the Galaxie mounts to spread the load better and spacers between the motor mounts and motor to raise it a bit more.

But first I would like to try and modify Butch's mounts. I think they are much sturdier than the Galaxie mounts. I removed the rubber cushion on the Butch's mounts and now the engine sits pretty darn good heightwise...

Still plenty of exhaust manifold clearance to mounts, steering box, oil pan clearance more than enough. Firewall clearance actually increases the lower the engine goes. I would be content with the way the engine sits now by just welding the 2 halves of the Butch's mounts together.

However, IDT I want solid mounts either.

Suggestions on how I can modify the Butch's mounts to allow some sort of cushioning without changing the location of the engine as it sits currently, but with at least some cushioning in place as opposed to it sitting solid like it is now?

I really don't want to cut or modify the car's frame mount itself, just in case I ever decide to put a 312 back in it.

[darrell]

all i ever did was use 302 truck mounts and shim them 1/2 inch to raise the engine.ive helped put in 302s and 351w in 56 fords.the c shouldnt be any different.

[Brushwolf]

Below is a pic of Butch's SBF adapter mount as it comes in the box and I believe a 70's pickup SBF mount. I welded a reinforcement triangular plate over one end of my Butch's mounts cuz it looks cleaner and is further strengthend.

I don't have any of these pickup mounts currently, but I could obtain them. But using those apparently requires slotting the frame mount which I am reluctant to do as I am trying to keep it a bolt in conversion that could be reversed without welding or cutting involved to the frame.

And they still might have the engine placement issues that the Galaxie mount has. (Horizontally designed cushioned mount sitting on a vertical frame mount and engine height a complete unknown). I know Mustang mounts have also been used, but apparently sit high as well. And other 70's car mounts as well.

But, I would rather try to figure out how to modify the Butch's mounts than keep on buying sets of motor mounts that also may not work in my particular install. I know others have used all of these aforementioned mounts and reported that they work. But maybe cuz it is not a 335 series engine with the 400 manifolds, or they shimmed them up sufficiently to work. IDK, but so far it is not going that well on mine.

[rotorwrench]

The 351C is definitely different than the small block series of engines. It's also heavier. Finding folks that use the 335 series engines in the mid 50s Fords may be a bit more difficult. Most folks just use the small blocks since they are much less expensive to find bells & whistles for.

[56sedandelivery]

I have a 351C in my 56. It is out right now but will take a pic of the mounts tomorrow. Works fine but they are a custom made. This is a crappy pic but does show the engine installed.

[Brushwolf]

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Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The 351C is definitely different than the small block series of engines. It's also heavier. Finding folks that use the 335 series engines in the mid 50s Fords may be a bit more difficult. Most folks just use the small blocks since they are much less expensive to find bells & whistles for.

Yes I have found a few, but like Darrell says they are spacing the mounts or modifying the frame mount. I will space them if I have to, but really don't care to modify the frame if I can avoid it. Also if I can't avoid spacers I would prefer to use them at the bottom on the mount rather than at the top.

[Brushwolf]

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

I have a 351C in my 56. It is out right now but will take a pic of the mounts tomorrow. Works fine but they are a custom made. This is a crappy pic but does show the engine installed.

Thanks. Fabrication is fine, just not on the frame itself on this particular car.

[cb]

What if you modified the piece that bolts to the block, don't know if there is room between the block and exhaust manifold.

[Brushwolf]

Nice drawing.

Yes, it is the manifold clearance that would then become the problem. I have maybe a half inch at most that I could gain between the top plate and manifold by grinding off a tab on lower manifold edge, but past that the manifold would hit the top plate. If I had 351c manifolds instead of 400M manifolds that might work, but I want the 400 manifolds on it.

Good try though...

[Brushwolf]

Got me thinking too. I could cut the triangle shaped piece from its base with a grinder zip blade and slide it down a couple inches. There is room on the engine side to do that. And moving it down at the roughly 45 degree angle 2 inches should give me an inch drop, I think.. Which is the thickness of my compressed insulator.

Then drill a new hole further inboard on the top plate centered on the new location of the insulator, mock it up in position with the insulator bolt tightened down and tack the lower halves back together. Then remove and disassemble to finish weld and trim the outer top plate edge then having excess outer dimensions, paint it and put it back on.

That could work. A lot of monkey business, but it would have to fit being built in place... Probably take less time than I have spent online looking at other alternatives.....

[Brushwolf]

Just like this... Still have to finish the top and bottom of lower half by replacing cut out sections. Probably will cut off the bottom inch of the triangle section parallel with the top of it and weld a piece in there.

And cut down the top plate because it extends far past the insulator now. May leave some of the excess to shield the insulator from the manifold though.

Engine is sitting on it now and height is right, but it is only tacked together in 3 spots. Moved the insulator location inboard 4/5"and slid the cut upper section of the bottom piece down double that at 1 3/5".

So far, so good. Even though I measured it, I basically moved the insulator toward the block as far as possible with it still having a 1/4" of clearance. I figured if I overshot the drop a little, it would be easier to add shims than cut and weld again.

[56sedandelivery]

Pics of my engine mount in a 56 for 351C. Mount number is 2221-2 (only number on it) the adapter is custom made

[rotorwrench]

It appears that the small block mounts will fit the 351C. I think the SBF uses the 2220 and 2221 mounts for some applications.

[cb]

Looks like you got it figured out, I have the same set of mounts in my 57 Ranchero with a 351W with no modifications, Cleveland must be a little different.

[5851a]

What model are the 400 manifolds from? Several manifold configurations that bolt to C heads. Most are to do with 2V or 4V heads and what body style. If you use 4V manifolds with 2V heads you will have a leak at the rear of all the exhaust ports

[Brushwolf]

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

Pics of my engine mount in a 56 for 351C. Mount number is 2221-2 (only number on it) the adapter is custom made

That looks like a good job done on that. Angle corrected and the whole works.. Looks like there is a lot of room to work with between frame mount and motor mount. Enough so a crossbolt adapter would also fit easy in that same spot..

[Brushwolf]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

It appears that the small block mounts will fit the 351C. I think the SBF uses the 2220 and 2221 mounts for some applications.

Yep I have a 351w on an engine run stand with the 63-64 Galaxie mounts on it and the Cleveland is the exact same far as bolting the mount on. Probably where I managed to make it different was using the 400m manifolds in 57 chassis.

But it sat too high anyway. Stock pan and engine crossmember had around 3 1/2 inches of clearance.

[Brushwolf]

Originally Posted by 5851a

What model are the 400 manifolds from? Several manifold configurations that bolt to C heads. Most are to do with 2V or 4V heads and what body style. If you use 4V manifolds with 2V heads you will have a leak at the rear of all the exhaust ports

All the 400 manifolds are 2v Cleveland size at the head. These I think are from a 77 pickup with a 400. The profile is larger, interior space is larger and exhaust exit ends of the manifolds are larger than the 351c 2v. So they should flow better than the 351c 2v manifolds being they were built to handle emissions of 400 CI instead of 351 CI. No 4v parts involved in this one except the aftermarket intake and carb.

I have a cam on the bigger end of the spectrum because engine machinist (Wheeler Racing Engines out of Blaine MN) said it would need the overlap to bleed off a little compression. The 1970 Cleveland even in 2v version was higher compression than the later engines. Allegedly 10:1 which is too high for iron heads these days without really good fuel.

[Brushwolf]

The 400 pickup manifolds clear everything by a long ways though, even though they are larger. No matter what height the motor is set at, there is no issues with 58 steering gear clearance, 57 A arms or firewall. Closest they get to anything is the motor mounts.

[JeffB2]

Originally Posted by Brushwolf

Below is a pic of Butch's SBF adapter mount as it comes in the box and I believe a 70's pickup SBF mount. I welded a reinforcement triangular plate over one end of my Butch's mounts cuz it looks cleaner and is further strengthend.

I don't have any of these pickup mounts currently, but I could obtain them. But using those apparently requires slotting the frame mount which I am reluctant to do as I am trying to keep it a bolt in conversion that could be reversed without welding or cutting involved to the frame.

And they still might have the engine placement issues that the Galaxie mount has. (Horizontally designed cushioned mount sitting on a vertical frame mount and engine height a complete unknown). I know Mustang mounts have also been used, but apparently sit high as well. And other 70's car mounts as well.

But, I would rather try to figure out how to modify the Butch's mounts than keep on buying sets of motor mounts that also may not work in my particular install. I know others have used all of these aforementioned mounts and reported that they work. But maybe cuz it is not a 335 series engine with the 400 manifolds, or they shimmed them up sufficiently to work. IDK, but so far it is not going that well on mine.

Since these come in different thicknesses it may be a solution for the Butch's donuts https://www.energysuspensionparts.co...-isolators.asp that being said we have had members complain about the Butch's mounts going to pot in about a year as they are using offshore made rubber they tend to compress and crack.

[Brushwolf]

I did order up a couple extra sets of those generic rubber parts from Speedway long ago cuz I kinda expect that to happen too. Compared to the ordeal of getting the engine height and placement right and re-making the steel parts, changing out the rubber parts is pretty easy on these though.

With the top plate now effectively lowered into the bottom part of the mount, I don't think it can go anywhere even if that happened. But I already almost ordered those Prothane Mustang mounts as I was getting frustrated, so I may just replace the rubber with polyurethane biscuits instead before the front clip goes back on.

But I have the mounts sitting good and beefed up the steel frame of them as well, so will let it be the way it is for now anyway. Spent the last few days remaking all the stock clutch linkage too, cuz the only part that worked in stock form with the 70's motor and bellhousing was the rod that comes thru the firewall.

Ended up having to make an adapter bracket to raise the frame side pivot ball and move it rearward, then extend the base of the pivot ball bracket for more outward adjustment, cut off outboard side of Z bar and reposition it to clear the steering gear, cut off engine side of Z bar and move it further out, and swapped the Y block rod on the clutch arm for an adjustable 69-70 Mustang rod. And to use that I had to remove the Z bar pin on the inner arm and drill it out to fit the Mustang part.

Would sure have been a lot easier to put a Y block back in it... But, it seems to work fine at this point and is adjustable at multiple points if necessary, so just gonna move on now. Fuel tank and exhaust. But of course my band saw blade broke too, so waiting on some new blades before I can do much with the exhaust.